Cup of Hope (Kubok Nadezhdy) 2013 [parallel to the Gagarin Cup]

Latgale_fan

Registered User
Apr 13, 2007
1,029
2
Riga
Sooo.... Dinamo Rīga beat Dinamo Minsk 1:0 in an away game (series 3:0, at least in this game Minsk really tried) and the superfinal is set:

DINAMO RĪGA VS AMUR KHABAROVSK


Who will win the trophy?
 

Latgale_fan

Registered User
Apr 13, 2007
1,029
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Riga
Dinamo Rīga is up 2:0 in the series, first game 2:0, second 4:3

The next game is on 19th in Khabarovsk, if Riga wins it then will become the winners of the Nadezhda Cup, if Amur wins then game 4 will be played in Khabarovsk. If Amur wins that too, the winner of the cup will be decided in SO.
 

ozo

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Feb 24, 2010
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434
How long has the protocol of the game no longer only dry facts? great update!
 

Exique*

Guest
Goal or No Goal?

A controversial goal that ended up being the game-decider in game 3 of the Kubok Ndezhdy finals. Thoughts?

 

J Murda

Registered User
Oct 1, 2008
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0
Calgary, Alberta
I just want to say that I find it a little trippy that tonight's game or whatever you want to call it comes on at 2am. It's nice to be able to able to watch Riga games because they are usually around 9 or 10 in the morning, but Khabarovsk is just on the other side of the damn world. I guess they might as well play 2 games there if they have to go that far. Hopefully that Vladivostok team gets in there quick to make the road trip a little more worth it.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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Congratulations

Guys, I just got an crazy idea.. what if. Imagine some super-european league which consists of KHL (32 clubs) and some Nordic League (SWE/FIN) or German League (GER/SUI) as one separate conference. Not all clubs can make play-offs, so the rest would play something like Cup nr.2 like in soccer is UEFA Europe League. Funny idea.
 

ozo

Registered User
Feb 24, 2010
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434
Congratulations

Guys, I just got an crazy idea.. what if. Imagine some super-european league which consists of KHL (32 clubs) and some Nordic League (SWE/FIN) or German League (GER/SUI) as one separate conference. Not all clubs can make play-offs, so the rest would play something like Cup nr.2 like in soccer is UEFA Europe League. Funny idea.
That's kinda the point of it - not all clubs deserve post season. Thank you for the effort, see you again next season.
 

ozo

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Feb 24, 2010
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Just to continue my hate of this bs cup, if you want all teams playing the whole time, just scrap the playoffs altogether. Each team plays each twice for 50 something games and the team amassing the most points wins the trophy. Everyone will get their games and we will be able make sure all teams end season on the same day.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
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So Dinamo Riga are now the biggest losers of them all, they're setting the world on fire by failing.

Rubens_Fall_of_Phaeton.jpg


Kubok Komarova, what a joke.

Not all clubs can make play-offs, so the rest would play something like Cup nr.2 like in soccer is UEFA Europe League. Funny idea.

Champions League and Europa League are separate competitions... but yeah, why not give everybody a Cup? No losers please.
 

ozo

Registered User
Feb 24, 2010
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434
Two cups, medals for finalists, diplomas and warm words for every other team! KHL - kindergarden hockey league. Stuff of dreams.
 

Yakushev72

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,550
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Two cups, medals for finalists, diplomas and warm words for every other team! KHL - kindergarden hockey league. Stuff of dreams.

Its called innovation - not slavishly following the model established by another league far, far away.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,413
1,272
Two cups, medals for finalists, diplomas and warm words for every other team! KHL - kindergarden hockey league. Stuff of dreams.

Who is talking about KHL? I talked about euro league.. which does not exist nowadays, but who knows? it is simple. Everyone wants euro league, not everyone can (want) join KHL. Only reasonable solution is to create KHL and some Nordic League which would meet in regulars somehow. Swedes/Finns/IIHF dreams about UEFA Champions League.... and UEFA Europa Cup is part of it. Someone form hockey enviroment will get this idea. Why did KHL adopt this Cup? To have longer season for rest of clubs?? Only reason?
 

Latgale_fan

Registered User
Apr 13, 2007
1,029
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Riga
"Innovative" is certainly the right term to describe the outlook of this competition. :laugh:
I don't mind it, don't understand why other people are up in arms to fight this idea like it's some kind of a disease that is spreading.
Plus it's good for the league- how many Latvians would follow KHL if there wasn't this trophy. While Dinamo was fighting for it at least more people were also aware about the real play-offs going on and there was an increase of interest in KHL in Latvia that would not be there otherwise. The same talking about Donetsk or Minsk.

And sure you can talk about player's motivation (the finalists probably also were the best motivated) and attendance (actually not that bad except for Rīga and that's probably IMHO because of some Latvian journalists who were negative about this idea from the get-go).

I don't see why this tournament is bad for the league or bad for hockey etc. Players have their contracts = they have to play. Any additional tournament is good for fans. And if they continue to fight for this trophy, well it will never be as big as Gagarin Cup or just making play-offs but it will be a pretty nice trophy to win for some of the teams... I don't understand what's the problem with this idea. Fans responded to it pretty well, if we don't count Spartak or Rīga, players have contracts and they have to play. Swedish Elitserien has their play-out series with Allsvenskan and everybody is ok with that idea, why they're not ok with some teams that didn't make play-offs having a small post-season tournament where some young guys have get more ice time...

I'm sure KHL management knows that there are teams in the league that will never win Gagarin Cup if the current status quo remains, some will even struggle to make play-offs (Vityaz, Avto, Kuznya), so why not play this tournament, teams get at least some kind of play-off experience and who knows, due to ability to try out more youngsters, maybe they get some ''hope'' out of it eventually for the next season.
 

ozo

Registered User
Feb 24, 2010
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434
I don't mind it, don't understand why other people are up in arms to fight this idea like it's some kind of a disease that is spreading.
Plus it's good for the league- how many Latvians would follow KHL if there wasn't this trophy. While Dinamo was fighting for it at least more people were also aware about the real play-offs going on and there was an increase of interest in KHL in Latvia that would not be there otherwise. The same talking about Donetsk or Minsk.

And sure you can talk about player's motivation (the finalists probably also were the best motivated) and attendance (actually not that bad except for Rīga and that's probably IMHO because of some Latvian journalists who were negative about this idea from the get-go).

I don't see why this tournament is bad for the league or bad for hockey etc. Players have their contracts = they have to play. Any additional tournament is good for fans. And if they continue to fight for this trophy, well it will never be as big as Gagarin Cup or just making play-offs but it will be a pretty nice trophy to win for some of the teams... I don't understand what's the problem with this idea. Fans responded to it pretty well, if we don't count Spartak or Rīga, players have contracts and they have to play. Swedish Elitserien has their play-out series with Allsvenskan and everybody is ok with that idea, why they're not ok with some teams that didn't make play-offs having a small post-season tournament where some young guys have get more ice time...

I'm sure KHL management knows that there are teams in the league that will never win Gagarin Cup if the current status quo remains, some will even struggle to make play-offs (Vityaz, Avto, Kuznya), so why not play this tournament, teams get at least some kind of play-off experience and who knows, due to ability to try out more youngsters, maybe they get some ''hope'' out of it eventually for the next season.

There so much wrong with this post, from basic facts to exaggerations and ridiculous comparison with Swedish league playouts.

I never said there are virtually no positives from this tournament, but the way (and the timing) this cup was introduced, set up made it look even worse then it was.

Like it or not KHL is being slavish in following the NHL in most fields, but one thing they shouldn't of tinkered with is the ultimate dream and the one focal point (well, not anymore) of the season - the God damn Cup.
 

Vicente

Registered User
Jun 6, 2012
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Cologne
There so much wrong with this post, from basic facts to exaggerations and ridiculous comparison with Swedish league playouts.

I never said there are virtually no positives from this tournament, but the way (and the timing) this cup was introduced, set up made it look even worse then it was.

Like it or not KHL is being slavish in following the NHL in most fields, but one thing they shouldn't of tinkered with is the ultimate dream and the one focal point (well, not anymore) of the season - the God damn Cup.

I like the cup and I can tell you why. It gives fans and teams a little extra motivation and they get some kind of playoff atmosphere despite missing the Gagarin Cup playoffs.

If you don't like the Cup, why do you follow it? It's not like in a 26 team league every team would have the chance to ever win the Gagarin Cup. So at least the bottom teams have something to play for. ;)
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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As I wrote earlier, this Cup can be a beginning of UEFA European League era or something like that. We will see if I am right or not.
 

Latgale_fan

Registered User
Apr 13, 2007
1,029
2
Riga
There so much wrong with this post, from basic facts to exaggerations and ridiculous comparison with Swedish league playouts.

I never said there are virtually no positives from this tournament, but the way (and the timing) this cup was introduced, set up made it look even worse then it was.

Like it or not KHL is being slavish in following the NHL in most fields, but one thing they shouldn't of tinkered with is the ultimate dream and the one focal point (well, not anymore) of the season - the God damn Cup.
I don't understand what the hell are you talking about in the highlighted part about basic facts, exaggerations and ridiculous comparisons. Swedes could as well do without Kvalserien, just relegated some teams from Elitserien and bring new ones from Allsvenskan and that's all. Still they've created this tournment which is a big deal in the towns it is played. Why can't KHL create a tournament for teams that did not make the play-offs. I don't understand what kind of facts and exaggerations are you talking about?

Of course the way how the cup was introduced was stupid, Pejorative Slured, completely idiotic, wrong etc. So what? The way how the cup was introduced certainly left an impact on how these ''losers' playoffs'' happened but if such a tournament is still being played next year nobody will remember... Just like 0 people today are concerned with KHL logo while when it was introduced all kinds of people rose up against the ''stupid look'' of it. The same with the Opening Cup (now Lokomotiv Cup), a great idea but also, at the beginning, met with a lot of boos and angry, snarky comments... This year when the league started and Dynamo faced Avangard in the first game of the season everybody was glued to TV screens to see the game and were happy that the game was really good. If there was no Opening Cup, no certain advertized season opener in KHL, nobody here in Riga would care to switch on the TV if Dinamo wasn't playing on that day.

This cup does not in any way impact the fact that Gagrin Cup is and still will be the main trophy for any team and making play-offs will be more important than winning the Cup of Hope. Some idiots on Latvian sports portal laughed about the fact that Atlant was out of play-offs faster than Dinamo Rīga even started the real fight for this "losers' cup". Well guess what- Latvian Hockey Championship final ended just yesterday while Dinamo's season has been over for a while already. Does that mean that anyone thought this final was more interesting that the final of Cup of Hope?? Three people probably thought so and three people probably also thought that the Cup of Hope final was more important than Gagarin play-offs... But that's always the case in any sport.

Nobody cared about the Cup of Hope in the cities that were in the play-offs and nobody cared for the Cup of Hope in the cities where there were no teams at all. But people from all these cities, including ones in the Cup of Hope, still followed and follow KHL play-offs, so I don't see where's the problem.

In short, in what way ozo do you think the ''ultimate dream'' will shift from making play-offs = fight for the Gagarin, to Cup of Hope? How do you imagine it happening? Do you think Amur Khabarovsk will go into the season thinking really considering whether to aim for play-offs or Cup of Hope?? That's ridiculous. Vorky already mentioned Europa League, nobody who has a chance at Champions League top 16 go into the group stage thinking - I guess we will not fight till the end and just settle for 3rd place in the group to play in a less prestigious tournament and maybe win it...

What this cup might be able to do though is:
1) increase post regular season interest in KHL (including play-offs) in cities that have not made play-offs
2) small teams who see they won't make play-offs will not sell off their stars thinking that at least the still have a shot at Hope's.
3) give a chance for smaller teams to try out their youth, practice play-off hockey

All these things would bring benefits to KHL parity of teams in future.
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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I agree with Latgale_fan´s post. More or less.

I just dont understand one thing. People have complained that KHL is NHL´s copy. When KHL introduces new tournament/cup, the same people complains that it is stupid idea because this Cup of Hope is not in NHL. I am not talking about ozo, but about group of people who has this opinion.

KHL is not classic euro league with 12/14 teams and 8 of them makes play-off. KHL will have more teams in future, but only 18 will make play-offs (or not?). KHL has big problem with schedulling, maybe will solve it in future. But now, Cup of Hope is good for teams which dont make play-offs. They can earn money (small now, but maybe bigger in future) and play more games.

Yes, timing of Cup of Hope was stupid. But as Latgale_fan wrote, "nobody will remember"

I wrote about possible paneuropean league of KHL/ET. Cup of Hope or something like that can be trophy no.2 in this competition... like UEFA Europa League.
 

Vicente

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Jun 6, 2012
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Cologne
There never will be a 64 team freakshow league in Europe. When do you guys all learn this. KHL will have a limit of 32 teams I am very sure. All experts say that 30-32 teams is more or less the number of participants that is ideal. More teams would only reduce the interest as very few people would really want to follow 50-64 teams of one league.

Before joining KHL teams in Western Europe would rather form an own league similar to KHL with a high number of teams from Sweden, Finland, Germany and Switzerland. That's a fact.

Winners of KHL and Western European league can play a best of series for a European title but as extra competition, not as part of a giant league.

And Cup of Hope keeps interest in KHL high as Latgale_fan wrote. If your team misses the playoffs or if your team is out early, nobody follows the league really anymore. Only die hard hockey fans. So Cup of Hope keeps interest in KHL high for the other fans.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
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4,937
I just dont understand one thing. People have complained that KHL is NHL´s copy. When KHL introduces new tournament/cup, the same people complains that it is stupid idea because this Cup of Hope is not in NHL.

A bad idea is a bad idea, whether is has an example in the NHL or not.

wrote about possible paneuropean league of KHL/ET. Cup of Hope or something like that can be trophy no.2 in this competition... like UEFA Europa League.

Once again: UEFA Europa League is not comparable to the "Cup of Hope". It's a separate tournament right from the start.
 

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