Culture, Dave Scott, and Hockey Ops discussion

[Redpath]

Rather than have me stink the roster discussion and miscellaneous NHL threads, I figured this topic should be its own discussion.

It has become increasingly apparent that the Flyers brand is dead with no one around to hold anyone accountable anymore. Dave Scott does not seem to be involved enough to put his finger on the scale. Chuck Fletcher is virtually his own boss. AV and the coaching staff still have the GM's endorsement. Gritty is a larger focal point than the on-ice product anymore.

Venting, gripes, speculation, and suggestions for the more meta-issues surrounding the Flyers ownership, front office, and culture are all welcome

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[DancingPanther]

Excellent idea for a thread. Will be following this one closely

 

[Lord Defect]

Excellent idea for a thread. Will be following this one closely

It’s just not the same.

 

[Embiid]

Right now the culture is toxic that is for sure. They have no organizational identity. Just a hodge podge approach from top to bottom.

 

[Cody Webster]

Two times in one day?

 

[Redpath]

Two times in one day?

I figured this one had a bit more legitimacy than the "Blame leadership" one

 

[mize370]

Blah blah blah. Fire Scott. Blah blah blah. Fire Homer. Blah blah blah. Country club. Blah blah blah x 3.

 

[deadhead]

Blame the FO, blame leadership, blame . . .
People are overreacting, teams have these kinds of seasons, if they don't have talent, it's the norm, if they have talent, turnarounds are frequent.

Fletcher played it close to the vest this offseason, with COVID and the ED, it turned out to be a good thing, b/c with Hart imploding, the season was doomed in any case - even if they made the playoffs, they would have been quickly eliminated - and the #19 pick would have been bittersweet.

Now Fletcher has room to do what he wants, AV lost a lot of pull, the players know they dug their own hole, and changes are inevitable.

AV will get one more year b/c I doubt Scott can stomach eating $15M, and his first year playoff run bought him a little leeway.

Fletcher is under the gun to make some big moves this summer, but I don't think it'll be a demolition job, rather, he'll make the obvious moves, RHD, veteran goalie, and maybe move out a couple veterans to clear out cap room and send a message. Since Fletcher knows he'll have to fire AV and hire a new HC if they fail next season, he'll make moves with a longer horizon in mind, preparing for a post AV team.

However, first the ED, who gets taken may dictate the next move.

 

[Rebels57]

I really don't know what the answer is.

Snider's death has started a seemingly irreversible entropy of the Flyers brand.

Hiring a prestigous and intelligent President of Hockey Ops that the GM has to answer to, like how Dubas answers to Shanahan in Toronto, would be a good start. Pronger perhaps? I don't know. Someone that cares about the legacy does have value. Just as long as it's not an old boys club member.

 

[GKJ]

I have a really long post I'm ready to unleash, but before I do, ya'll are going to have to understand that there's more to what this topic should be than bitching about Chuck Fletcher, AV, Dave Scott, various players, etc. Quite frankly, a lot of that stuff has been said anyways. A lot of people have spoke their minds and ain't no one changing theirs.

Going to have to cut this a little bit deeper tan that.

 

[Embiid]

Speaking of culture and the FO country club

This is what I want to ask the organization

 

[Beef Invictus]

Blame the FO, blame leadership, blame . . .
People are overreacting, teams have these kinds of seasons, if they don't have talent, it's the norm, if they have talent, turnarounds are frequent.

Fletcher played it close to the vest this offseason, with COVID and the ED, it turned out to be a good thing, b/c with Hart imploding, the season was doomed in any case - even if they made the playoffs, they would have been quickly eliminated - and the #19 pick would have been bittersweet.

Now Fletcher has room to do what he wants, AV lost a lot of pull, the players know they dug their own hole, and changes are inevitable.

AV will get one more year b/c I doubt Scott can stomach eating $15M, and his first year playoff run bought him a little leeway.

Fletcher is under the gun to make some big moves this summer, but I don't think it'll be a demolition job, rather, he'll make the obvious moves, RHD, veteran goalie, and maybe move out a couple veterans to clear out cap room and send a message. Since Fletcher knows he'll have to fire AV and hire a new HC if they fail next season, he'll make moves with a longer horizon in mind, preparing for a post AV team.

However, first the ED, who gets taken may dictate the next move.

You had this pegged as the year we'd be competing.

 

[deadhead]

I have a really long post I'm ready to unleash, but before I do, ya'll are going to have to understand that there's more to what this topic should be than bitching about Chuck Fletcher, AV, Dave Scott, various players, etc. Quite frankly, a lot of that stuff has been said anyways. A lot of people have spoke their minds and ain't no one changing theirs.

Going to have to cut this a little bit deeper tan that.

I think Fletcher will be the main voice going forward.

Scott doesn't know enough, and AV's wings have been clipped, while the old guard will gradually lose influence because they're too busy golfing in Florida and Scott really doesn't have strong ties with them.

I'm curious to see what Fletcher does, in Minnesota, he was learning on the job but also dealt with a Snider-type owner who was heavily involved.
Now he's going to be the "man," and implement his vision.
But there will be an expiration date, ironically, this season extended it b/c AV, by grabbing the center stage, also probably grabbed the blame in Scott's eyes.

 

[Embiid]

You had this pegged as the year we'd be competing.

Just deadhead butt posting as Capn would say ..

 

[deadhead]

You had this pegged as the year we'd be competing.

And I thought Hart was a franchise goalie, given his play first in the spring (top five), and in the bubble (second only to Price).
His meltdown brought the team down, his resurrection shall cause them to ascend to Hockey Heaven.

 

[Magua]

This team is built —from management to coaches to players — to make the playoffs and win 1 round (maybe). Sure, they want to win the Cup, invest the money to do so, but every decision at every level basically points to that as their realistic ambition. Or if not ambition, their realistic capability. A contending team flops.....it get a 1st round bounce. A bubble team flops....it finishes in and around the bottom 10.

The lack of vision and creativity hovers over all.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And I thought Hart was a franchise goalie, given his play first in the spring (top five), and in the bubble (second only to Price).
His meltdown brought the team down, his resurrection shall cause them to ascend to Hockey Heaven.

That isn't going to happen, though

 

[CutOnDime97]

Pretty clearly not working. Move on from the GM and coach.

 

[Embiid]

 

[CutOnDime97]

Do we think there is anything that can happen that gets the coach and/or GM fired? A few more embarrassing blowout losses?

 

[deadhead]

This team is built —from management to coaches to players — to make the playoffs and win 1 round (maybe). Sure, they want to win the Cup, invest the money to do so, but every decision at every level basically points to that as their realistic ambition. Or if not ambition, their realistic capability. A contending team flops.....it get a 1st round bounce. A bubble team flops....it finishes in and around the bottom 10.

The lack of vision and creativity hovers over all.

Fletcher inherited a drawn out rebuild b/c Homer wouldn't pull the trigger and Hextall probably wasn't allowed.
They needed to start in 2012, not 2014, and once started, they need to do what the Rangers did, sell your older assets, stockpile draft picks and suck for a couple years to pick in the top five.

Fletcher took over a bubble team with an "owner" who mandated playoffs.
So he did the best he could, got them there without mortgaging the future.
Hopefully, this debacle will give him the authority to make some necessary moves, better one step backward than two steps sideways.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Maybe I’ll get proven wrong, but they are in a very similar situation today.

Drawing out the inevitable when the club is screaming a need for a true rebuild.

A few more prospects sure, but I feel like we have been here before.

I don’t hate them by any means, but I’ve got an increasing feeling Hextall’s kids aren’t nearly enough.

 

[achdumeingute]

You had this pegged as the year we'd be competing.

Tk. Less productive, largely the same playstyle imo.
Provorov, patrick, lindblom, sanheim, myers, hart..all ying players in the regress category. Players we counted on to stake steps forward didn't.

Maybe having an off-season, real training camp, and practices will change things next year.

 

[renberg]

DH does have a point in that Scott is a Comcast businessman. He is not a sports/hockey guy. He hired Fletcher to run the hockey side of the Flyers/Comcast things. Fletcher might have to run significant incidents, especially financial ones, regarding the club past Scott. Guys at the corporate level of Scott don’t have the time or expertise to get deeply involved in the minuscule aspects of running the team. Scott’s main concern is getting his division of the Comcast enterprise to turn a profit large enough to meet Brian Robert’s expectations.
Fletcher has a sweet gig. GM, in charge of hockey operations. If the club performs well, he has one of the best jobs in the NHL. If the club doesn’t do that, he’s out. If the Flyers turn this thing around, it will be because of what he does. The pressure is greatest on him. I don’t believe that he’ll be willing to allow AV to cause him to lose this job.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

I think Fletcher will be the main voice going forward.

Scott doesn't know enough, and AV's wings have been clipped, while the old guard will gradually lose influence because they're too busy golfing in Florida and Scott really doesn't have strong ties with them.

I'm curious to see what Fletcher does, in Minnesota, he was learning on the job but also dealt with a Snider-type owner who was heavily involved.
Now he's going to be the "man," and implement his vision.
But there will be an expiration date, ironically, this season extended it b/c AV, by grabbing the center stage, also probably grabbed the blame in Scott's eyes.

Fletcher was learning on the job for a decade in Minnesota? Dude probably shouldn’t have the job if he had that long in one place and still sucks. Not to mention the nearly two decades he was an assistant GM for Florida, Anaheim, and Pittsburgh.

Fletcher is a crap GM with no idea how to build a cup contender. The longer he is here the longer the mediocrity continues.