Post-Game Talk: Cue the Hysteria - Game 4 Plus/Minus

[IcedCapp]

last thought: this is a big deal. If TV comes in and the Penguins still give up 4-5 goals, there is no excuse left for Disco. It's all on him and the defense at that point. You're saying that last night was Flower's fault. OK. But you can't put TV in there and have the same exact result and still blame the goalie.

 

[roready]

There was a question to Dan about if he had a conversation with Fleury and what was said and how did he take it.

Of course Dan's answer to the question was - I'm not going to tell you (the media) what was said or what Fleury's reaction was.

Really, I didn't care for the question because the obvious answer was Fleury was not happy about it. I'm sure Fleury felt like he let the team down, and he wants to make a stand to win and make up for what happened. I'm sure Dan indicated to Fleury that it would be just like he would pull a goalie in a game, and he still has faith in Fleury, and he has to make the change at this time to help get the team motivated.

 

[Rectify]

Not sure what you're getting at... out of everyone on this board, I'm literally the only person to never freak out.

What was that about buying an Ovechkin jersey if we lost last night?

In all seriousness though, thank baby Jesus for TV in game 5. Hopefully plenty of lineup changes too.

 

[IcedCapp]

What was that about buying an Ovechkin jersey if we lost last night?

In all seriousness though, thank baby Jesus for TV in game 5. Hopefully plenty of lineup changes too.

That's not freaking out. That's a reasonable life choice

 

[Fire Shero*]

I laughed at the last goal Fleury gave up. It was comical. I'm beyond feeling sorry for him, I just want him to be gone and be another fanbase's problem.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

I'm just glad the series is 2-2. It feels like we're down 3-1, if that makes sense.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not at all surprised by the responses (from the summary provided here). What do you expect the players to say? They aren't going to **** on their goalie to the media. I do think the team is overly protective of him, but it is what it is. That said, I am so sick of our media and the soft ball questions. Why not at least ask "Don't you think a practice day is important when you are outplayed 3 straight games" or something to that extent.

Additionally, I am tired of the "we didn't underestimate the Islanders, we knew this would be a battle". They are excusing their own poor play by saying the Islanders are good. Yeah it should be a battle, but you ARE the number 1 seed and beat this team 4 out of 5 in the regular season, in a fairly decisive manner. You SHOULD be dominating them.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

On my phone, so not going to go through the trouble of linking it. But my NHL app just notified me that TV will start game #5.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm not at all surprised by the responses (from the summary provided here). What do you expect the players to say? They aren't going to **** on their goalie to the media. I do think the team is overly protective of him, but it is what it is. That said, I am so sick of our media and the soft ball questions. Why not at least ask "Don't you think a practice day is important when you are outplayed 3 straight games" or something to that extent.

Additionally, I am tired of the "we didn't underestimate the Islanders, we knew this would be a battle". They are excusing their own poor play by saying the Islanders are good. Yeah it should be a battle, but you ARE the number 1 seed and beat this team 4 out of 5 in the regular season, in a fairly decisive manner. You SHOULD be dominating them.

I wouldn't mind the team praising Flower if they did this in reverse order. Come out at 12:25 and say Vokoun is the starter. Then have the players come out and say we support MAF, it's not his fault, we have to be better, blah blah blah. It makes no sense to blow smoke up his skirt and then pull him.

 

[Shady Machine]

I wouldn't mind the team praising Flower if they did this in reverse order. Come out at 12:25 and say Vokoun is the starter. Then have the players come out and say we support MAF, it's not his fault, we have to be better, blah blah blah. It makes no sense to blow smoke up his skirt and then pull him.

Now that I agree with. Strange order to be sure.

 

[NastyNick]

I would picture one of two things happening tommorow night.

1. The game is incredibly low scoring. Vokoun keeps the Pens in it, Nabokov has a rebound game. Game ends 1-0 or 2-0. I'd give the Pens a 70-30% chance here.

2. the game is a repeat of game 1. Nabokov is out for game 6, and its a battle of the backups.

I just cannot see Vokoun coming in and playing as bad as Fleury has. I can't see any goalie at the NHL level playing like that. It was a rare treat to see that level of suckage at a professional sport. A result of an organization and fanbase coddling a guy who should have been analyzed and scrutinized many many times prior to this game. He finally hit rock bottom on the national stage. A spectacular showing to match the spectacular amount of negligence that led to it.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I laughed at the last goal Fleury gave up. It was comical. I'm beyond feeling sorry for him, I just want him to be gone and be another fanbase's problem.

If we lose tomorrow you can change your name to "NoGoaliez". New trend!

On my phone, so not going to go through the trouble of linking it. But my NHL app just notified me that TV will start game #5.

That is so 40 minutes ago.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

has a coach ever been fired mid playoff series? can we make history?

 

[NastyNick]

Now that I agree with. Strange order to be sure.

That it hasn't happened speaks volumes about what the players really think of Fleury. You can see it on their faces. Sure, they'll tell us they "support" him and hes a "good" goalie. They know the drill. But the looks on their faces last night showed me how they really felt. the "Here we go again with this BS" looks on Orpik and Niskannen's faces is the truth.

Deep down they are RELIEVED.. this ordeal can be put behind us and we can play hockey again. And not suck.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

So the plan is to have no practice and have Vokoun go in completely cold?

I assume he's out there with a couple guys just shooting around at least.

 

[zero8771]

That it hasn't happened speaks volumes about what the players really think of Fleury. You can see it on their faces. Sure, they'll tell us they "support" him and hes a "good" goalie. They know the drill. But the looks on their faces last night showed me how they really felt. the "Here we go again with this BS" looks on Orpik and Niskannen's faces is the truth.

Deep down they are RELIEVED.. this ordeal can be put behind us and we can play hockey again. And not suck.

We know you have hated Fleury for a long time. But constant sensationalist remarks about him are a bit a dramatic, no?

He's played well in a lot of games for us. He's been garbage lately in the playoffs. It's as simple as that.

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Just watched the replay, please quit hockey Fleury.

 

[BigBadBoris]

pretty tough to blame the coach. pens have been getting lit up but it's not his fault when the goalie stops 18 out of 24 shots. It's not his fault for what happened in game 2 either. 3 goals that an average goalie could have stopped one of them easily. If pens win one of those games it's a 3-1 series edge and they are in GREAT shape

Also he's the fastest to win 200 games out of all coaches and led the team to an amazing winning streak finishing 1st in the conference. Last year's series against PHI, I would also say the big issue was goaltending. Sure defense wasn't great but part of that was due to less confidence in the goalie. When you're goalie struggles, everyone starts to try to do more and that can often work against the team. Eg. players diving to block shots and putting themselves out of position, forwards collapsing too much into the net and opening the points etc.

If the team was like Vancouver vs San Jose, I would have no problem firing the coach but Bylsma has not been the reason the Pens have struggled in this series

So, what you're saying is that Bylsma deserves all the credit when the team does well, but no blame when the team's playing like crap..

Ok then

 

[IcedCapp]

Just watched the replay, please quit hockey Fleury.

He DID quit. I thought you watched the replay.

 

[Mordax]

last thought: this is a big deal. If TV comes in and the Penguins still give up 4-5 goals, there is no excuse left for Disco. It's all on him and the defense at that point. You're saying that last night was Flower's fault. OK. But you can't put TV in there and have the same exact result and still blame the goalie.

Logically that is!

 

[zero8771]

He DID quit. I thought you watched the replay.

Sitting Fleury is a big deal. Eager to see how the team responds:

Paul Grant
From Kevin Gibson, our stats-guru friend at TSN: Penguins Playoff Goalies in Fleury Era
Player GP GS
Marc-Andre Fleury 79 79
Mathieu Garon 1 0
Brent Johnson 3 0
Jocelyn Thibault 1 0
(Johan Hedberg on May 22, 2001 last goalie to start a playoff game for PIT not named Fleury)

 

[sniugneP]

A bit good news....Andrew MacDonald is out of playoffs due to broken hand. Isles defense is getting worse.

 

[Frederick Stanley]

He DID quit. I thought you watched the replay.

ha good point

 

[Kovifan27]

He DID quit. I thought you watched the replay.

So did Nisky on that last goal. Nisky said in post game they expected a battle. His half assed attempt to get back and poke check says otherwise. This team expected a walk through the park even more so after game 1.

Flower is shot for this series. If the Pens win and that is a big IF I would expect him to get the next series start. When it goes south he will be done for the post season.

 

[NastyNick]

We know you have hated Fleury for a long time. But constant sensationalist remarks about him are a bit a dramatic, no?

He's played well in a lot of games for us. He's been garbage lately in the playoffs. It's as simple as that.

I feel like i have to be obnoxious because very few people who follow the Pens want to hear or read it. I've been warning about this situation for years now. He has never really been a good goalie. Not compared to what else is out there. His fundamentals have always been crap. He overcompensated with acrobatics that excited his fans, but were ordinary saves if his angles and timing were correct. He seems to have a lot of trouble with his peripheral vision, especially in the Tampa series when they scored repeatedly from behind him. That all adds up to a really mediocre NHL goaltender, who has been extremely fortunate to have a starting job on one of the flagship teams of the league.

What i don't like is all the fans turning on Dan over this. Dan is not sitting in the crease letting turds in. Despite how bad the goalie has been, his team has tied and has kept the losses close. I saw those defensemen working miracles last night to keep shots from hitting the net. You can't ask for more from your D then that. You gotta get saves from your goalie. There is still a possibility that Vokoun turns this ship around and the Pens make a deep run. Dan would look like a hero if that happened.

There is no possibility that Fleury rebounds at this point. He is left on the side of the road now. Probably one more short run with a different team before the inevitable occurs.