Post-Game Talk: Crow Thrower against the Ill Man

[Raikkonen]

I don't mind the loss too. Bring on whoever and lets start.

In Kuz I trust.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I really like the game of hockey. And I'm attached to the Washington Caps - they get me emotionally invested in what is by far the most interesting and rewarding spectator sport going. But I don't think it's useful to erect a wall of negativity as a defense against the possibility of being let down again - the risk of that happening is a key part of the fan experience.

Nailed it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I really like the game of hockey. And I'm attached to the Washington Caps - they get me emotionally invested in what is by far the most interesting and rewarding spectator sport going. But I don't think it's useful to erect a wall of negativity as a defense against the possibility of being let down again - the risk of that happening is a key part of the fan experience.

Good stuff.

 

[strungout]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I really like the game of hockey. And I'm attached to the Washington Caps - they get me emotionally invested in what is by far the most interesting and rewarding spectator sport going. But I don't think it's useful to erect a wall of negativity as a defense against the possibility of being let down again - the risk of that happening is a key part of the fan experience.

 

[RandyHolt]

Bonus points for the phrase: Wall of Negativity

A wall does not protect one from their sorrow, no matter who pays for it

 

[g00n]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I really like the game of hockey. And I'm attached to the Washington Caps - they get me emotionally invested in what is by far the most interesting and rewarding spectator sport going. But I don't think it's useful to erect a wall of negativity as a defense against the possibility of being let down again - the risk of that happening is a key part of the fan experience.

Thisssssss.

 

[marcel snapshot]

That said - I believe we have scored a goal on the other team's goalie in only one out of our last ten 20-minute regulation periods.

If that continues past tonight, it will test my capacity to talk myself out of being fretful.

 

[Langway]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I think this is just a bunch of armchair psychology. Sorry. There will likely be many of the same people going wild when/if they actually do well. Not that some aren't disenchanted generally but I don't believe this is any sort of universal truth when it comes to critics. Being critical doesn't mean there isn't emotional involvement or that expectations are universally skeptical. The whole reason in trying to evaluate them from a higher standard is to get a sense of whether they're legit or not. Truth is none of us will know until the time comes either way but it is an inevitable part of regular season viewing, esp. down the stretch. As much as people want to talk about enjoying this regular season, the most memorable aspect of it is Kuznetsov's coming out party for me. I don't think I'll really take that much else away from this regular season. Maybe Holtby getting the wins record but a great regular season is still just a regular season.

There is a difference between emotionally spiralling criticism and that which is warranted and fairly measured. There is a difference between pointing out what's wrong with them currently and assuming that those things will absolutely impair them in the playoffs and adjusting expectations accordingly. There is always a level of uncertainty in any competition and that's what makes it so entertaining regardless of who you happen to be cheering for. For me it's that element that makes the playoffs so great whether it happens to involve the Washington Capitals or not.

 

[g00n]

I think this is just a bunch of armchair psychology. Sorry. There will likely be many of the same people going wild when/if they actually do well. Not that some aren't disenchanted generally but I don't believe this is any sort of universal truth when it comes to critics. Being critical doesn't mean there isn't emotional involvement or that expectations are universally skeptical. The whole reason in trying to evaluate them from a higher standard is to get a sense of whether they're legit or not. Truth is none of us will know until the time comes either way but it is an inevitable part of regular season viewing, esp. down the stretch. As much as people want to talk about enjoying this regular season, the most memorable aspect of it is Kuznetsov's coming out party for me. I don't think I'll really take that much else away from this regular season. Maybe Holtby getting the wins record but a great regular season is still just a regular season.

There is a difference between emotionally spiralling criticism and that which is warranted and fairly measured. There is a difference between pointing out what's wrong with them currently and assuming that those things will absolutely impair them in the playoffs and adjusting expectations accordingly. There is always a level of uncertainty in any competition and that's what makes it so entertaining regardless of who you happen to be cheering for. For me it's that element that makes the playoffs so great whether it happens to involve the Washington Capitals or not.

But when there is much more good than bad, why focus SO much on the bad, as some do? Critique that maintains perspective is fine. Perpetual gloom and doom is just pessimism for the sake of pessimism.

We know these games are meaningless. There's nothing to really be upset about right now.

 

[marcel snapshot]

Being critical doesn't mean there isn't emotional involvement or that expectations are universally skeptical. The whole reason in trying to evaluate them from a higher standard is to get a sense of whether they're legit or not. Truth is none of us will know until the time comes either way but it is an inevitable part of regular season viewing, esp. down the stretch. As much as people want to talk about enjoying this regular season, the most memorable aspect of it is Kuznetsov's coming out party for me. I don't think I'll really take that much else away from this regular season. Maybe Holtby getting the wins record but a great regular season is still just a regular season.

There is a difference between emotionally spiralling criticism and that which is warranted and fairly measured. There is a difference between pointing out what's wrong with them currently and assuming that those things will absolutely impair them in the playoffs and adjusting expectations accordingly. There is always a level of uncertainty in any competition and that's what makes it so entertaining regardless of who you happen to be cheering for. For me it's that element that makes the playoffs so great whether it happens to involve the Washington Capitals or not.

Agree with most all of this. Like you (I think), I remain concerned as to whether this team can play at the higher pace necessary for playoff success while continuing to execute effectively and maintaining their defensive structure and discipline. Can they be consistently high-tempo and crisp and intelligent? I think they've shown the ability to do that this season in ways that have been lacking previously - and, yeah, Kuz has a lot to do with that - but the proof will come two weeks from now. (And they sure as hell better find ways to keep teams from getting Kuz off his game, because if I was playing the Caps in the playoffs, that's the first thing I'd try to do).

Also agree that playoff hockey is valuable and worthwhile even where there isn't a local rooting interest (I'm a Caps fan and a hockey fan, so I have no choice there). But it's the emotional investment that makes it a more intense and wrenching experience.

 

[Langway]

We know these games are meaningless. There's nothing to really be upset about right now.

We know that the outcome is relatively meaningless in the grand scale of things but a better process could serve as a foundation for them to continue to build on down the line. Whether that's crucial or not, we'll see. I suspect it's important and the question will be how quickly they can both get their game in order and continue to raise their play. Win or lose, I'd be more confident if they were building on something.

(And they sure as hell better find ways to keep teams from getting Kuz off his game, because if I was playing the Caps in the playoffs, that's the first thing I'd try to do).

Agreed. Shut him down and make the first and third lines beat you. Lately, not a whole lot going on between the two nor the PP.

But it's the emotional investment that makes it a more intense and wrenching experience.

True. For me it's a lot less than it was, say, six years ago in the midst of the Boudreau Era when they were more vigorously in their element (and carelessly so). If they're struggling along with pace and crispness and the like it'll be hard for me to be emotionally involved in that outcome. It would be one thing if they go out and put it all on the line collectively but if they struggle to do that when it matters I'll just wonder about them more than anything. It'll be no less disappointing but it's hard to be crushed if they get into a funk they can't play their way out of.

I would admit that, yes, I'm less hopeful about them than I was six years ago but I'd tend to assume that's common. If they quickly get on a roll in the first round and start looking the part those doubts will soften and even the most hardened skeptics likely would at some point.

 

[bur and 666 others]

People are channeling a lot of negative anxiety as a defense mechanism against once again having their hopes crushed. It's understandable - but ultimately it seems to me be contrary to the point of being a fan. Part of the fun of being a fan is to have a semi-emotional, roller-coaster experience about something that ultimately really doesn't matter that much.

I really like the game of hockey. And I'm attached to the Washington Caps - they get me emotionally invested in what is by far the most interesting and rewarding spectator sport going. But I don't think it's useful to erect a wall of negativity as a defense against the possibility of being let down again - the risk of that happening is a key part of the fan experience.

Great post! Agree with almost everything, but I don't think people who express negativity here don't have their hopes very high as well. if they were low or gave up on the team, they wouldn't be so angry after a loss. That actually shows opposite: a high standard for the team imho

Edit: I would argue that people who are very negative after a loss have their hopes higher than people who are positive

 

[g00n]

We know that the outcome is relatively meaningless in the grand scale of things but a better process could serve as a foundation for them to continue to build on down the line. Whether that's crucial or not, we'll see. I suspect it's important and the question will be how quickly they can both get their game in order and continue to raise their play. Win or lose, I'd be more confident if they were building on something.

What do they need to build on? Haven't they shown how dominant they can be, including earlier in the year when they built such a big standings lead? Didn't they step up vs the Islanders last year and take the Rangers to the brink of elimination before they finally crapped out?

I think they understand what needs to be done, and when. They need to build on their playoff success, and they need to do it this postseason. This is not a "just get in and see what happens" situation like years past under a GM who cut corners and hired a series of rookie coaches. They are not going to sleepwalk through a first round series.

If they fail this year it will probably be because someone else simply beat them.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That said - I believe we have scored a goal on the other team's goalie in only one out of our last ten 20-minute regulation periods.

If that continues past tonight, it will test my capacity to talk myself out of being fretful.

Well played....

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

But when there is much more good than bad, why focus SO much on the bad, as some do? Critique that maintains perspective is fine. Perpetual gloom and doom is just pessimism for the sake of pessimism.

We know these games are meaningless. There's nothing to really be upset about right now.

That's part of the problem around here some days, they're really not. I bet even behind closed doors Trotz would disagree with that type of professionalism. I'm just like any other fan, dying for the playoffs to start already, but casually dismissing losses is part of what drives those of us who want to see a more consistent work ethic crazy. We want to see it not because we care about tonight's game, but because come playoff time, a high level of consistency matters.

 

[g00n]

That's part of the problem around here some days, they're really not. I bet even behind closed doors Trotz would disagree with that type of professionalism. I'm just like any other fan, dying for the playoffs to start already, but casually dismissing losses is part of what drives those of us who want to see a more consistent work ethic crazy. We want to see it not because we care about tonight's game, but because come playoff time, a high level of consistency matters.

They are relatively meaningless compared to the playoffs, and they should be pretty meaningless to US as fans who are trying to allay our own fears about whether the team will choke or not. What we see now is simply not an indication of what we can expect in the playoffs.

Again, they stepped up last year and flipped that switch vs the Islanders, didn't they? They cranked everything up a notch. Then they nearly made the ECF, and probably should have.

That is the greater concern for me...will they sit back when too far ahead in a 7 game series? We have to hope they learned that lesson. I don't think you prove that by beating yourself to death in games that mean nothing to the standings over the course of an 82 game season.

 

[Langway]

What do they need to build on? Haven't they shown how dominant they can be, including earlier in the year when they built such a big standings lead? Didn't they step up vs the Islanders last year and take the Rangers to the brink of elimination before they finally crapped out?

Yes they did do that earlier in the year but that's not playoff hockey. The Caps have continued winning but there are plenty of areas I can't assume they'll execute just because they want to. It would be sensible to start executing with urgency (even if self-manufactured) so that they can self-evaluate areas they're having a tougher time executing and adjust accordingly. As-is they have the feel of a team that will show up and hope inspiration takes over. Or that maybe they'll get a fortunate first round match-up and the feeling out process will serve as a tune up for a long run. Maybe they'll get lucky but it doesn't seem wise to leave the ramping up to Game 1.

I guess I'm most curious just how much 8/19 can ramp it up to begin with. There's a wide gulf between their typical level of play and anything resembling a top line on a contender. The PP historically has not been an asset when it matters most so getting in higher quality reps down the stretch would serve them well. My main take is what do they have to lose by not starting to simulate the stakes and mentality of playoff hockey? I've never believed a team can play not to get injured so IMO there's no reason not to switch their focus from securing the President's Trophy to playing quality hockey as the playoffs loom.

There has been too much complacency and excuse making over the years not to get twitchy when they show signs of mental weakness. They did a good job much of the year staying in the moment but that focus has been an issue for some time now. It makes me question their on-ice intelligence and peak ability. Pinning their hopes on consistently wanting it more than the opposition seems too vague. If one person wins their battle what is the next player doing? Where is he going? How does that support fundamentally change now that they all agree this is the time to go for it? Those are the sorts of kinks that should be worked on as the regular season ends. Otherwise their apparent strategy seems suspect.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They are relatively meaningless compared to the playoffs, and they should be pretty meaningless to US as fans who are trying to allay our own fears about whether the team will choke or not. What we see now is simply not an indication of what we can expect in the playoffs.

Again, they stepped up last year and flipped that switch vs the Islanders, didn't they? They cranked everything up a notch. Then they nearly made the ECF, and probably should have.

That is the greater concern for me...will they sit back when too far ahead in a 7 game series? We have to hope they learned that lesson. I don't think you prove that by beating yourself to death in games that mean nothing to the standings over the course of an 82 game season.

I have no fear of them flipping the switch. It's not like they won't show up. Hopefully the lights come on when they need it. I find little solace in the warm embrace of a victory over the Islanders a year ago.

And yes, not finishing off opponents, taking their foot off the gas (or their throats) is exactly the fear I have and why I prefer to see a consistent work ethic.

 

[g00n]

Yes they did do that earlier in the year but that's not playoff hockey. The Caps have continued winning but there are plenty of areas I can't assume they'll execute just because they want to. It would be sensible to start executing with urgency (even if self-manufactured) so that they can self-evaluate areas they're having a tougher time executing and adjust accordingly. As-is they have the feel of a team that will show up and hope inspiration takes over. Or that maybe they'll get a fortunate first round match-up and the feeling out process will serve as a tune up for a long run. Maybe they'll get lucky but it doesn't seem wise to leave the ramping up to Game 1.

I guess I'm most curious just how much 8/19 can ramp it up to begin with. There's a wide gulf between their typical level of play and anything resembling a top line on a contender. The PP historically has not been an asset when it matters most so getting in higher quality reps down the stretch would serve them well. My main take is what do they have to lose by not starting to simulate the stakes and mentality of playoff hockey? I've never believed a team can play not to get injured so IMO there's no reason not to switch their focus from securing the President's Trophy to playing quality hockey as the playoffs loom.

There has been too much complacency and excuse making over the years not to get twitchy when they show signs of mental weakness. They did a good job much of the year staying in the moment but that focus has been an issue for some time now. It makes me question their on-ice intelligence and peak ability. Pinning their hopes on consistently wanting it more than the opposition seems too vague. If one person wins their battle what is the next player doing? Where is he going? How does that support fundamentally change now that they all agree this is the time to go for it? Those are the sorts of kinks that should be worked on as the regular season ends. Otherwise their apparent strategy seems suspect.

If the early season games indicate nothing because it's not playoff hockey, then nothing they do during the regular season means anything with regard to the playoffs, either.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He never said they mean nothing, just that they're different.

I believe he thinks they're important for many reasons just like I do. Langway?

 

[g00n]

He never said they mean nothing, just that they're different.

I believe he thinks they're important for many reasons just like I do. Langway?

It's not a quote it's a question of logic. Why do we dismiss or devalue the good games in the context of playoffs but not the bad ones?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Are they being dismissed or looked at with a critical eye and an understandable amount of skepticism when they seemingly mail it in some nights?

I think both honestly. Langway's position has been a little critical for my tastes this season, but I get it. It's easy to get a little jaded when your heart gets broken every year. Caps have a LOT to prove, and mailing it in, just gets the whispers started. The media starts talking, old ghosts raise their heads, usually self doubt and failure follow. I'm ready to lay the ghosts to rest.

 

[Langway]

If the early season games indicate nothing because it's not playoff hockey, then nothing they do during the regular season means anything with regard to the playoffs, either.

On a relative scale I'd put later season games at a higher level of importance. Teams are unquestionably ramping up their game as they prepare for the playoffs not just in placement but strategy and style. It's less easy for them to just smother the opposition and win and that's the sort of resistance they'll face in the playoffs.

They've shown they're a contender that has a lot of pieces but I don't think they're a great team that can just turn it on and blow teams away. They have been motivated early in games against PIT and STL recently yet couldn't dent the scoreboard. From there they broke down defensively and couldn't hang. I don't think it's just a motivation issue.

They have a long running question of killer instinct and their approach down the stretch hasn't put that to bed. On a tactical level I wonder if they have the right attacking mindset. I don't doubt their grinders will being going when the time comes but top six execution is a bit more delicate and nuanced. If cracking that code is above this staff then I don't know how this season ends up different aside from Holtby standing on his head.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The "ramping up" issue scares me most. Many teams are making the push towards the playoffs, arguably playing their best team hockey of the year. Some of those will shoot their wad just to make the dance, others will ride that tide to an upset or two....IMO.

I too worry about a lack of killer instinct.

 

[g00n]

On a relative scale I'd put later season games at a higher level of importance. Teams are unquestionably ramping up their game as they prepare for the playoffs not just in placement but strategy and style. It's less easy for them to just smother the opposition and win and that's the sort of resistance they'll face in the playoffs.

They've shown they're a contender that has a lot of pieces but I don't think they're a great team that can just turn it on and blow teams away. They have been motivated early in games against PIT and STL recently yet couldn't dent the scoreboard. From there they broke down defensively and couldn't hang. I don't think it's just a motivation issue.

They have a long running question of killer instinct and their approach down the stretch hasn't put that to bed. On a tactical level I wonder if they have the right attacking mindset. I don't doubt their grinders will being going when the time comes but top six execution is a bit more delicate and nuanced. If cracking that code is above this staff then I don't know how this season ends up different aside from Holtby standing on his head.

The early season games were not playoff games, but these late season games are not playoffs, either. That's the point. It's clear the early season games mattered more to the Caps, and they performed well. The later games mean MUCH more to other teams, and it shows in the results. It has to go both ways.

And if we've seen the Caps step up when it mattered TO THEM, why assume they won't do it when the playoffs hit? That said, I've expressed a desire to see them at that level for the last stretch of games, probably starting Weds vs the Flyers. If not, it's still not too late.

I don't expect them to blow teams away every night. I expect them to compete in the playoffs. We've seen every player on this team perform at the necessary level. They just have to do it when it counts most.

As for Trotz as some have mentioned, I don't expect him to ever come out and say "we're coasting and that's fine", whether or not he believes it.