Crosby ALLTIME rank before start of '19-'20 season

[illpucks]

Some comments in bold for your quote.

Ovechkin should have routed the Hart in 2009/10 but caught so much heat for the suspensions

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin should have routed the Hart in 2009/10 but caught so much heat for the suspensions

Perhaps but H. Sedin wasn't a bad choice either as he still did well with borther daniel injured down the stretch and he killed it that year at ES.

Ovechkin probably would have won the Hart but his team was really good around him as well that year.

Crosby on the other hand hd very little help that year and did win the Richard as well.


Here are the lines for the top 5 scorers on the Pens that year.

Crosby 81-51-58-109 +15
Malkin 67-28-49-77 -6
Gonchar 62-11-39-50 -4
J. Stall 82-21-28-49 plus 19
Guerin 78-21-24-45 -9

You can make an extremely strong argument that Crosby was "the most valuable to his team" that season.

 

[illpucks]

Perhaps but H. Sedin wasn't a bad choice either as he still did well with borther daniel injured down the stretch and he killed it that year at ES.

Ovechkin probably would have won the Hart but his team was really good around him as well that year.

Crosby on the other hand hd very little help that year and did win the Richard as well.


Here are the lines for the top 5 scorers on the Pens that year.

Crosby 81-51-58-109 +15
Malkin 67-28-49-77 -6
Gonchar 62-11-39-50 -4
J. Stall 82-21-28-49 plus 19
Guerin 78-21-24-45 -9

You can make an extremely strong argument that Crosby was "the most valuable to his team" that season.

lol Ovechkin would easily win the Richard, he had 1 goal in 10 less GP
he would easily win the Art Ross, as he had 3 less points in 10 less GP

He should have had Art Ross, Lindsay, Hart, Richard but ran into suspensions, and Team Canada. 09/10 was best year of Ovi career so it wasn't really close between him and Sedin/Crosby. He was on pace for 124 points, and that was after running into Team Canada, and suspensions. He started of with 88 in 53.

 

[wetcoast]

lol Ovechkin would easily win the Richard, he had 1 goal in 10 less GP
he would easily win the Art Ross, as he had 3 less points in 10 less GP

He should have had Art Ross, Lindsay, Hart, Richard but ran into suspensions, and Team Canada. 09/10 was best year of Ovi career so it wasn't really close between him and Sedin/Crosby. He was on pace for 124 points, and that was after running into Team Canada, and suspensions. He started of with 88 in 53.

Suspensions of his own making and if you want to talk about pace......well we all know who that favours right?

 

[illpucks]

Suspensions of his own making and if you want to talk about pace......well we all know who that favours right?

72 games and 3 points back of Art Ross is not same as 1/2 or 1/4 of season and leading league in PPG

 

[wetcoast]

72 games and 3 points back of Art Ross is not same as 1/2 or 1/4 of season and leading league in PPG

Crosby can easily be considered the best player in the NHL in 10/11, despite playing in only half the games and 12-13 while only playing in 75% of the games.

It's been shown before that even if Crosby in his time missed plays worse than his PPG average in those missed games that he has several more harts and ARt Ross trophies.

Best player in a single year is one thing but best player in the world say over 3 years and Crosby has Ovechkin beat there easily.

 

[illpucks]

Crosby can easily be considered the best player in the NHL in 10/11, despite playing in only half the games and 12-13 while only playing in 75% of the games.

It's been shown before that even if Crosby in his time missed plays worse than his PPG average in those missed games that he has several more harts and ARt Ross trophies.

Best player in a single year is one thing but best player in the world say over 3 years and Crosby has Ovechkin beat there easily.

Rantanen was torching the league at the 1/2 mark and he fell off so hard. You can argue the lockout year for Sid, but that's it. 1/2 season no matter how good he was he wasn't the best because it's too short of sample size.
And speaking of 3 years
Ovi 07/08, 08/09, 09/10 Ovi torched Sid in 3 year sample

 

[wetcoast]

Rantanen was torching the league at the 1/2 mark and he fell off so hard. You can argue the lockout year for Sid, but that's it. 1/2 season no matter how good he was he wasn't the best because it's too short of sample size.
And speaking of 3 years
Ovi 07/08, 08/09, 09/10 Ovi torched Sid in 3 year sample

Yes and that's only one 3 year period, Crosby has several of these.

Also using Rantanen as an example is just plain weak.

Before 10/11 Crosby's lowest PPG pretty much close to 5 full season Crosby's PPG was 1.26 in his rookie season so even if we take just a 1.25 PPG and add it to 10-11

Sid goes from 41-32-34-66 to 117 points and the ARt Ross winner that year had 104 points. Pretty sure crosby was the best player that year and easily wins a Hart and art ross in super convincing fashion..

The next season his line is 22-8-9-37 which would go to 112 points goof for first once again over Malkin at 109, the 2nd best scorer in the NHL had 97 points.

Once again he would have been a pretty good bet to be the Art ross and Hart winner once again.

The 12/13 season is much like the 10/11 season except he plays in 36 games which is 3?4 of the season and his line is 36-15-41-56 which was good for 3rd in the league a mere 4 points behind the TB duo of stamkos and MSL.

Even with only a PPG for those 12 games and suddenly he would have had 68 points well over the ARt Ross winner at 60.

As it was he was a very close 2nd in Hart voting that year, he would have once again run away with the hart and the art Ross that year.

So leave the Rantanen example at the door where it belongs.

As it was he lost 8 games to injury and still had an elite line of 74-31-56-87.

 

[illpucks]

Yes and that's only 1 3 year period, Crosby has several of these.

Also using Rantanen as an example is just plain weak.

Before 10/11 Crosby's lowest PPG pretty much close to 5 full season Crosby's PPG was 1.26 in his rookie season so even if we take just a 1.25 PPG and add it to 10-11

Sid goes from 41-32-34-66 to 117 points and the ARt Ross winner that year had 104 points. Pretty sure crosby was the best player that year and easily wins a Hart and art ross in super convincing fashion..

The next season his line is 22-8-9-37 which would go to 112 points goof for first once again over Malkin at 109, the 2nd best scorer in the NHL had 97 points.

Once again he would have been a pretty good bet to be the Art ross and Hart winner once again.

The 12/13 season is much like the 10/11 season except he plays in 36 games which is 3?4 of the season and his line is 36-15-41-56 which was good for 3rd in the league a mere 4 points behind the TB duo of stamkos and MSL.

Even with only a PPG for those 12 games and suddenly he would have had 68 points well over the ARt Ross winner at 60.

As it was he was a very close 2nd in Hart voting that year, he would have once again run away with the hart and the art Ross that year.

So leave the Rantanen example at the door where it belongs.

As it was he lost 8 games to injury and still had an elite line of 74-31-56-87.

lol at saying that he wins the AR after 22 GP. We have no idea what would happen. He also was suppose to score 5 points vs Buffalo and torch Tavares in the AR Race and he put up a gooseegg. Even myself, I thought it was an absolute given that Sid has Buffalo on game 82, but he put up a gooseegg. So it happens and we cant predict when.

 

[wetcoast]

lol at saying that he wins the AR after 22 GP. We have no idea what would happen. He also was suppose to score 5 points vs Buffalo and torch Tavares in the AR Race and he put up a gooseegg. Even myself, I thought it was an absolute given that Sid has Buffalo on game 82, but he put up a gooseegg. So it happens and we cant predict when.

But we actually do have a pretty good idea on what would have happened as he scored at a 1.39 PPG clip in the previous 5 years over a 412 game sample, not a single game against Buffalo.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

So we take his average PPG in the previous 5 season of 1.39 to the remaining 60 games and his 37 points goes to 120.

Even if it's below his career average to that point, let's say 1.30 PPG that still translates to 115 points.

I actually only used his lowest PPG average the one in his rookie season in my example and this is all you can point out?

Also the reason Crosby (84 points) finished 3rd in scoring in 14/15 wasn't because he went pointless against buffalo it was because he missed 5 games while both Tavares with 86 points and Benn with 87 both played in all 82 games.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Still trying to compare OV to Crosby lol

Make a poll for OV all time then.

 

[SillyRabbit]

If Crosby retired today he’d be considered #5 all time due to the Mike Bossy treatment.

He’d get credit for the success he had and it would be extrapolated forward and assumed that he would continue to dominate.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Number 5.

 

[Vjbasile87]

He’s my personal Goat

 

[DannyGallivan]

10th overall...in history.

 

[North Cole]

Curious which of 99, 66, 4, or 9 are being dropped out of the top four by the people voting 3rd and 4th? Seems insane

Wouldnt even waste time discussing the idea of people who voted 1st all time.

 

[wetcoast]

10th overall...in history.

Just curious if you still have Lafleur over him and if so by how much, ie. what would Crosby need to do to pass Guy?

 

[wetcoast]

Curious which of 99, 66, 4, or 9 are being dropped out of the top four by the people voting 3rd and 4th? Seems insane

Wouldn't even waste time discussing the idea of people who voted 1st all time.

I voted for him being 5th but one could say that Orr only has 11 elite seasons of play and for mario the obvious lack of defensive play by 66.

Also Mario only played in 915 games and at some point say if Crosby has 200 to 300 more games of his current level of play this should become a discussion.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Just curious if you still have Lafleur over him and if so by how much, ie. what would Crosby need to do to pass Guy?

Being the best player on the best dynasty of all time would help. I'm a sucker for the "eye" test too, and I was judging talent as well as careers, so Lafleur's flash as well as his production (there were flashy players without production) helped. Few players ever were as electrifying as Lafleur AS WELL AS productive (goals, assists, points, records, both individual and team hardware, ect.)

However, I can see Crosby being as high as fifth if he has another season or two like he had last year. The concussion years delayed that inevitability.

My current top five are Orr, Gretzky, Howe, Mario and The Golden Jet. Again, other than the top four, I see the differences between the next "chunk" of players to be measured by fractions, not whole numbers. Virtually a tie, but they have to be put in some kind of order. I don't, though, consider Crosby to be in the same stratosphere as Orr, Gordie, Wayne or Mario. Fifth is as high as I could possibly consider him.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Players that received top-10 votes in the HOH Top-100 list:

Tier 1: Majority support for 1st
Tier 2: Majority support for top-5
Tier 3: Majority support for top-10
Tier 4: Minority support for top-10

Gretzky
Howe, Lemieux, Orr
Beliveau, Harvey, Hull, Richard, Roy
Bourque, Crosby, Hasek, Messier, Mikita, Morenz, Shore​

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I voted for him being 5th but one could say that Orr only has 11 elite seasons of play and for mario the obvious lack of defensive play by 66.

Also Mario only played in 915 games and at some point say if Crosby has 200 to 300 more games of his current level of play this should become a discussion.

Crosby will never have a chance to be in a discussion with Mario. Lemieux was just far too good of a player regardless of longevity etc.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby will never have a chance to be in a discussion with Mario. Lemieux was just far too good of a player regardless of longevity etc.

People need to look at more than just the video game stats with Mario.

He simply didn't tilt the ice as much as his stats and skill indicate.

Just look at his ESGF/ESGA ratios, they just aren't as impressive as one would think.

 

[Maestro84]

Probably somewhere between 5-10. His story’s still being written so we’ll see what happens when he finally decides to hang up his skates.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

The most popular option is outside the top 10.

 

[bobholly39]

The most popular option is outside the top 10.

Sure - but that also means over 70% of voters have him in the top 10.

I think Crosby will have a big season. He always does when Malkin misses a lot of time.