Crosby abuse

[Tender Rip]

This thread is now entering uncharted territory. Why didn't we ever discuss what a successful deterrent is before? Seems like a forum wide agreement is just around the corner!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think the word you are looking for in terms of the attribute of which you'd like more of on the team is physicality/physical.

Dupuis is gritty, not physical. Same thing for Spaling. Hornqvist is both.


Also, even if Kane wants to leave, it doesn't change the fact that the Jets would likely move him for another forward, not a defenseman. Why on earth would they lose more offense to be better defensively? To shield Pavelec even more? HE sucks, they know, it is what it is. Kane creates a huge hole if traded, they'd likely look for another forward.

I think the team that has the best chance at landing him, is Philadelphia and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up getting him. Voracek and a small +.

No way in hell we can match that.

I also think the Flyers were kind of waiting on what Bobby Ryan was going to do, he took money over being on a contender, I have no doubt that the Flyers will go after Kane next, they were close before as far as I can remember rumors wise, they're ok with C (prospects, etc), wingers they need and they have cap space, Flyers don't. I could see something like Voracek + Grossman and a pick to take Grossman, for Kane.

I don't get why people keep force feeding the whole "They'll want a defenseman!"


On their current roster.

Enstrom
Trouba
Bogosian
Byfuglien
Postma

Prospects

Morrissey
Glover
Kichton
etc..

The best deal for Evander Kane involves Fleury, always has. I've said it repeatedly and will continue to say it. Moving Fleury probably gets us Kane. Fleury and Dupuis for Kane and Pavelec. OR, don't take Pavelec and let them deal with that. And we sign Brodeur. I'd make either move right now.

That said, I don't agree that the Jets won't want a defenseman if it's a steady, veteran guy like Martin. They don't really have a steady veteran, and they could use upgrades over the likes of Stuart and Pardy. And your list of young defensemen for the Jets is impressive, but they have a nice young crop of forwards now too:

Scheifele
Ehlers
Petan
Lowry
Kosmachuk

Not too shabby.

I am quite aware that Steve MacIntyre doesn't scare Brandon Dubinsky, since that's a point I've made repeatedly for years now.

Are you aware that Despres doesn't either?

who do you think would? What kind of player should we be looking to bring in? I would love a guy like Kane or Stewart that can play in the top 6 and throw down when needed, but those guys aren't easy to come by.

Honestly, I don't think there's more than a handful of guys in the league that would actually scare someone like Dubinsky enough to prevent him from going after someone. But if he's going after Sid, Despres can physically step in and stop him. Nobody did that last year.

The answer is John Scott. He doesn't really care who you are. He's coming after you. THAT is what we need on this team to once and for all stop this stupidity. It happened when we acquired Eric Cairns. It happened again when we got Georges Laraque and Gary Roberts at the same time. It happened again when we replaced Laraque with Eric Godard. Just find another guy who will mess with anyone who messes with our skilled players and move on.

you don't go after Dubinsky, you go after johansen. he'll get the message.

The only person who'd get that message right now is Johansen's agent.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yes, a 30yr old goaltender will get us a 23yr old power forward that has scored 30 goals on a team that struggles to score.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With John Scott, how many games until people ***** and moan about how he is useless on the ice if no one wants to fight him or some crap like that? We need guys tat can take a regular shift. Scott can, with a crap team, but if he's getting regular minutes on a contender, you've got problems. Also, he'll have very few dance partners. This team needs to just stick up for each other, having a few guys that can fight but also play isn't a bad thing.

I'd rather give ice time to Payerl or just call up PLL.

 

[Zen Arcade]

With John Scott, how many games until people ***** and moan about how he is useless on the ice if no one wants to fight him or some crap like that? We need guys tat can take a regular shift. Scott can, with a crap team, but if he's getting regular minutes on a contender, you've got problems. Also, he'll have very few dance partners. This team needs to just stick up for each other, having a few guys that can fight but also play isn't a bad thing.

I'd rather give ice time to Payerl or just call up PLL.

Leblond, sure.

Payerl isn't really a fighter, he just wrestles for the most part. The main thing Payerl brings is boardwork, dude's just freakishly strong. With him being cut so early, I have a feeling we won't be seeing him up for a while, they didn't like something about his game.

Maybe they'll do something outside of the box, considering they have a million defensemen and try Ruopp on wing or something.

 

[66-30-33]

Byfuglien is a forward now.

 

[billybudd]

who do you think would? What kind of player should we be looking to bring in? I would love a guy like Kane or Stewart that can play in the top 6 and throw down when needed, but those guys aren't easy to come by.

Honestly, I don't think there's more than a handful of guys in the league that would actually scare someone like Dubinsky enough to prevent him from going after someone. But if he's going after Sid, Despres can physically step in and stop him. Nobody did that last year.

Not a lot of people "scare" Dubinsky. Kevin Bieksa's the only guy I can think of off the top of my head. But there aren't many guys "like Dubinsky." As far as rats with balls that play first line minutes and aren't midgets there's him, Corey Perry and...that might actually be the end of the list unless Hartnell still counts.

 

[Snapdragin]

How much + added on to Pouliot+1st would it take to get the Jets to have a conversation?

I think Stewart is a super realistic target though.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yeah, so this is a big problem now. Potentially bigger than last year.

When it seemed like Downie, Carcillo, Bort and one of Sill or Farnham were making the team, I thought we would be one, maybe two players away from being in the right place.

With Bort hurt, Carcillo Sill, and Farnham cut, that leaves Downie as the only depth player who plays with an edge. That's not enough. We're 4 light.

You can't just have 1 depth player with balls in the lineup on any given night and if you do, he can't be Downie's size.

Yep. I'm pretty disappointed that Sill, Carcillo, and Farnham are cut. I'd feel a lot better about it if we had even kept one of them.

Just as toughness can be contagious, so can softness.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Not a lot of people "scare" Dubinsky. Kevin Bieksa's the only guy I can think of off the top of my head. But there aren't many guys "like Dubinsky." As far as rats with balls that play first line minutes and aren't midgets there's him, Corey Perry and...that might actually be the end of the list unless Hartnell still counts.

that's pretty much my point. Anyone else that messes with Crosby is someone like Staal or Marchand that can be handled by pretty much anyone willing to step in regardless of size or fighting prowess.

 

[Shady Machine]

Fleury for Kane? Jags you have really outdone yourself with that one.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Fleury for Kane? Jags you have really outdone yourself with that one.

Ya I think he brought it up in the summer at some point too. It made just as little sense then as it does now. Not that they wouldn't want him, but they certainly wouldn't trade Kane for him. Especially for only 1 year of him.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Byfuglien is a forward now.

Yep, and an ideal target for us as a matter of fact. But they'll probably not trade Big Buff if they are forced to deal Kane, imo.

Yep. I'm pretty disappointed that Sill, Carcillo, and Farnham are cut. I'd feel a lot better about it if we had even kept one of them.

Just as toughness can be contagious, so can softness.

We have the Bylsma era as Exhibit A.

Fleury for Kane? Jags you have really outdone yourself with that one.

Ya I think he brought it up in the summer at some point too. It made just as little sense then as it does now. Not that they wouldn't want him, but they certainly wouldn't trade Kane for him. Especially for only 1 year of him.

Yeah, I think the Jets are desperate. Desperate to a) get rid of Kane, and b) make the playoffs in what might be the toughest division in the NHL. Fleury helps them get there.

We could expand the deal to include Paul Martin. Basically, Garth Snow has made the maiden voyage. Let's see how many other GM's desperate to make the playoffs follow suit.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Fleury is not going to get them into the playoffs. Martin would help more. But both are unsigned and likely to at least test free agency next year. Its very possible that both could walk in a year and they'd be left with nothing.

The Isles are in a completely different situation. 1. They traded some futures, not their best player. 2. They are much closer to the playoffs than the Jets.

 

[mpp9]

Trading 2 2nd round picks for a top 4 D is a hell of alot different than moving a core player for friggin' MAF.

 

[billybudd]

that's pretty much my point. Anyone else that messes with Crosby is someone like Staal or Marchand that can be handled by pretty much anyone willing to step in regardless of size or fighting prowess.

You can't just tell or expect Spaling to go teach Staal a lesson. Some guys have it in them, some guys don't. As of opening night, we have 1 guy that does, 2 if you count Letang, and both players are sub 6'0. That isn't enough.

Many of the players you mention are different animals by the way. Staal can be enforced. Staal is very subject to intimidation. Alex Semin had him in the fetal position, among others. Schenn, too, though he's not near as fearful as Staal. Dubinsky's not the chickenhawk those two are, but he doesn't like being hassled, either.

Marchand presents the problem that anyone trying to teach him anything is going to be intercepted by one of his big brothers. While I vehemently disagree with Jags' John Scott idea (too much of a clown show, not unlike MacIntyre), having him is one way to stop that from happening. Lucic is a tough guy, but that doesn't mean he wants to fight a 6'8 monster that can't play a lick on behalf of Marchand. 'My brother can beat up your brother' is a childish game, but it's the one that Boston plays.

 

[Snapdragin]

MAF is not landing us Kane, and without a solid replacement ready that would be a bad idea for us anyway. This is silly.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You can't just tell or expect Spaling to go teach Staal a lesson. Some guys have it in them, some guys don't. As of opening night, we have 1 guy that does, 2 if you count Letang, and both players are sub 6'0. That isn't enough.

Many of the players you mention are different animals by the way. Staal can be enforced. Staal is very subject to intimidation. Alex Semin had him in the fetal position, among others. Schenn, too, though he's not near as fearful as Staal. Dubinsky's not the chickenhawk those two are, but he doesn't like being hassled, either.

Marchand presents the problem that anyone trying to teach him anything is going to be intercepted by one of his big brothers. While I vehemently disagree with Jags' John Scott idea (too much of a clown show, not unlike MacIntyre), having him is one way to stop that from happening. Lucic is a tough guy, but that doesn't mean he wants to fight a 6'8 monster that can't play a lick on behalf of Marchand. 'My brother can beat up your brother' is a childish game, but it's the one that Boston plays.

So I agree with all of this. I don't even know what we're talking about at this point. Why are you talking about Spaling? Boston is a different beast than everybody else, but otherwise I think a change in mentality will do an awful lot to help the situation quite a bit.

 

[billybudd]

So I agree with all of this. I don't even know what we're talking about at this point. Why are you talking about Spaling? Boston is a different beast than everybody else, but otherwise I think a change in mentality will do an awful lot to help the situation quite a bit.

I think I thought you were trying to sell Despres as a Boychuk or a Bieksa, which you may or may not have been doing, I dont' remember.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think I thought you were trying to sell Despres as a Boychuk or a Bieksa, which you may or may not have been doing, I dont' remember.

No. I was just saying he can help out in that regard. He won't be full on enforcing anything. But he can and will step in when non-enforcer type guys start ****.

 

[billybudd]

No. I was just saying he can help out in that regard. He won't be full on enforcing anything. But he can and will step in when non-enforcer type guys start ****.

Yeah. If all you're getting at is the SD isn't a complete pushover, I'm on board with that.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah. If all you're getting at is the SD isn't a complete pushover, I'm on board with that.

Pretty much. He's not Bortuzzo, but he's also more likely to be on the ice with Sid and he's the biggest guy on the team. I doubt he initiates much, but he will step in when someone is messing with Sid, and he's big enough to probably get other non-fighters to back off. So he isn't going to prevent stuff like a real enforcer would, but he won't just watch Sid get crosschecked in the head.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The Pens right now are 10x tougher than they were last year.
Relax everyone.

And theres still a possibility they pluck someone off waivers or give them a contract. ie. BizNasty.
And an eventual trade who may bring toughness with the skill.

Just stating something doesn't make it true. This current lineup is soft, S O F T

 

[Terrapin]

There are lots of reasons for the teams recent softness, but as someone else said, most guys who are inherently soft aren't going to be chomping at the bit to get their ***** kicked. That's why a guy like Comeau isn't adding any toughness. Downie is an agitator, but he can't win a fight, plus has a history of concussions. Fielding a team of 'Craig Adams'' isn't going to do squat to help team toughness.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

I think you all are forgetting a very important function of middlewieghts like Sill, Downie, Comeau, etc. They can target other players stars and agitate them. I don't think that we truly need a Semenko/Godard type player. That will just lead to the other teams heavywieght fighting ours. If something happens, when Giroux/Bergeron/Staal step out onto the ice, press the circle button(b button for you xbox-inites) and send out the "energy" line. Have Comeau dump the puck into the corner, Downie check them hard and sweep their leg, and have Sill **** talk them while they are on the ice. I would pay extra for that lol