Crosby abuse

[SidDidNothingWrong]

you don't go after Dubinsky, you go after johansen. he'll get the message.

Exactly.

 

[JRS91]

You're never going to completely eliminate this.

Players are always going to play hard on Crosby, they're always going to play on the edge, because of how dangerous he is, and because they know if they can frustrate him, they can save themselves a lot of trouble.

As far as Downie goes, he's not the type of guy they need to stop this kind of stuff. No offense to Downie, I'm sure he'd be very willing if something happens to Crosby or Malkin, but he's 5'11 and not a very good fighter. He's not a bad one, but he's more of an agitator, not necessarily a guy that people fear.

Besides, what good would having a guy like Downie out there do, even if we had him last season in the playoffs? Unless he was on Crosby's line, after the fact, it's not going to make a difference, nor would having someone like Scott.

If the Penguins want to protect Crosby, while still being competitive, they need to acquire someone who can not only play with Crosby, but can fight. Wayne Simmonds has turned into a fantastic player for the Flyers, he's also arguably one of the toughest players in the league. The Penguins need someone like Chris Stewart. Someone who can score over 20 goals and is actually going to cause some damage if someone messes with Crosby.

 

[Terrapin]

You're never going to completely eliminate this.

Players are always going to play hard on Crosby, they're always going to play on the edge, because of how dangerous he is, and because they know if they can frustrate him, they can save themselves a lot of trouble.

As far as Downie goes, he's not the type of guy they need to stop this kind of stuff. No offense to Downie, I'm sure he'd be very willing if something happens to Crosby or Malkin, but he's 5'11 and not a very good fighter. He's not a bad one, but he's more of an agitator, not necessarily a guy that people fear.

Besides, what good would having a guy like Downie out there do, even if we had him last season in the playoffs? Unless he was on Crosby's line, after the fact, it's not going to make a difference, nor would having someone like Scott.

If the Penguins want to protect Crosby, while still being competitive, they need to acquire someone who can not only play with Crosby, but can fight. Wayne Simmonds has turned into a fantastic player for the Flyers, he's also arguably one of the toughest players in the league. The Penguins need someone like Chris Stewart. Someone who can score over 20 goals and is actually going to cause some damage if someone messes with Crosby.

You're right. The problem is, top line guys who can fight don't grow on trees. So, the options really were:

A. Acquire Simmonds, Stewart, etc at all costs
B. Acquire a heavyweight fighter like Scott, Biz, Devane, etc (which could be easily done)
C. Acquire Blake Comeau

Obviously we went with C., and will continue to rely on they physicality that Craig Adams brings to the table.

Eventually Sid and Geno are going to get tired of being gang ***** every game. You could make the arguement that Sid had enough last playoffs. Yet Pens managment would rather be the moral authority of the league over protecting their stars, winning Cups, etc. It's a shame.

 

[Karnage420*]

It's getting better (the roster), but we're not completely comfortable yet. We still need that one, big deterrent out there. I would have signed John Scott this summer. I don't care about his lack of foot speed, lack of hands, lack of hockey sense. You want this sh#t to stop, you get the biggest and the baddest on the roster. You don't even have to play him much. Just have him around as your insurance policy.

Matt Kassian was released by the Coyotes. Bissonnette is still in Blues camp, and Westgarth is still in Oilers camp. Two more possibilities.

I would not mind releasing Carcillo and replacing him with someone much bigger and badder. If we didn't have Downie (and Sill...and Farnham...and and and) I could see Carcillo having more of a role here. Both Carcillo and Downie are a bit redundant. Not that I mind it too much, but I want a bigger dude here to start making the guys feel more comfortable.

I do like the fact we have more agitation in the lineup. Those guys will definitely act as a distraction for opponents. They might not even remember to abuse our stars with Carcillo and Downie running around. But at some point, this thing is going to come to a head. We're going to have to answer the bell.

We are a team with very fragile star players (pretty much all of them). We also are a team with the real possibility of having a diminutive teenager in the lineup to start the season. If Crosby, Malkin, the injury woes and Kapanen aren't reason enough to go find an enforcer, then we'll never get it.

I really hope we address this. Rutherford had Westgarth in Carolina for a while. He's not completely against the idea, I'd like to think.

you are a good poster when you arent dreaming about wingers.

Kassian would be amazing on this team - and he isnt terrible at hockey.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

you are a good poster when you arent dreaming about wingers.

Kassian would be amazing on this team - and he isnt terrible at hockey.

Karnage - judging poster quality since September, 2014. You're all on notice!

 

[mikethelegacy]

Karnage - judging poster quality since September, 2014. You're all on notice!

I know, right? Shaking in my boots right now.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Well, Westgarth, McLaren and Orr are now all available too. Your move, Jim.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

you are a good poster when you arent dreaming about wingers.

Kassian would be amazing on this team - and he isnt terrible at hockey.

Thank you, Karnage!

Wingers are like women to Penguins fans, so yeah.

 

[Ogrezilla]

please don't pick any of those guys up unless we can manage to ship out Adams.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

please don't pick any of those guys up unless we can manage to ship out Adams.

That's a fair point. Maybe we can use Adams as the 'enforcer' this year. And after he gets the hell beaten out of him, we can put him on LTIR and move onto a real tough guy.

His roster spot really seems to be the one that is preventing the addition/arrival of our new enforcer.

Thanks Ray. No, really.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's a fair point. Maybe we can use Adams as the 'enforcer' this year. And after he gets the hell beaten out of him, we can put him on LTIR and move onto a real tough guy.

His roster spot really seems to be the one that is preventing the addition/arrival of our new enforcer.

Thanks Ray. No, really.

Ya, he just has to be our 13th forward. We can't bring in a 2nd guy who can't play every day.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Sign Westgarth to an AHL-contract. Get more insurance because there are many enforcers/players trying to make a name for themselves.

Would prefer to get a younger enforcer. Someone who can stay in the organization for a longer time. Crosby was giving Engelland advice when he was converted to a forward. He could the same with a younger enforcer.

The team would be pretty much set. If they can get a high caliber forward, then this team can be a serious threat again.

 

[Terrapin]

Well, Westgarth, McLaren and Orr are now all available too. Your move, Jim.

I'd welcome any of them. Orr's about done though. Doesn't have the jaw anymore. Gadzic destroyed Westgarth too. If we're going to bring in someone, don't bring in a punching bag. We already have one of those: Craig Adams.

 

[billybudd]

Westgarth is washed up and was horrible even before he was. I know, career year last year and all that, but he straight up sucks. It's real easy to see.

Orr is shot. 5 years ago I wouldn't have minded him, but he's about 3 years past his expiration date.

McLaren...not a fan at all.

On the bright side, Toronto just cut two fighters, which they never would have in the past. Fancy stats guys at work. I'm like a broken record with this, but right now is the time to buy low on Jamie Devane.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is Devane your relative or something?

He seems like a decent 4th line guy, not sure I would move much for him, if the Leafs want Zatkoff for the Marlies, I'd swap him for Devane.

 

[billybudd]

Nah. He just ticks a lot of boxes. It's incredibly difficult to acquire a guy that can fight like him and skate like him with his type of mentality (look at Neil, he's a lifer). It's even rarer to find one that's 6'6. You have to identify them before anyone realizes what they are. After that, they don't go anywhere until they wash up. To me, it looks like he's slipping through the cracks in Toronto. He'd still need to leapfrog Biggs to make the big team and I don't see him cutting in line in front of a first rounder.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be something of a project, but not any more than, say, Payerl, who doesn't bring the same intimidating element.

I mean, look at the names that get brought up. Westgarth. Scott. Orr...I think someone mentioned Rosehill at one point...that's how desperate Pens fans are for a little toughness. If a guy on the Marlies is 10 years younger than them and at least has the legs to be a decent fourth liner in his own right, shouldn't that interest the Penguins?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The last time I saw him, he needed to work on his skating, he's a utility player that happens to be 6'5" 220+ lbs and he can drop his gloves and brutalize people, but if he can't skate, he's going to get the whining that followed BGL, Mac, and Godard. Neither could take a regular shift, if Engelland was 15lbs heavier and had more of a devastating KO power, that contract he got would be worth every penny. He's a well above average fighter, he can stand his ground against a heavy weight every now and then, but he doesn't strike fear into anyone.

Neither does PLL or anyone else in the system.

BUT!...

If you have a bunch of guys that will have zero issues going after your stars as well (Downie for example)...they'll think twice. I think we need more Downie types, not 1 dimensional fighters that are average at best for a 4th line player.

We had Mac not so long ago, remember. People here whined about a tough guy then too, then got one and whined about the tough guy. What you're missing is that the fans just don't want to see this team get pushed around. Having a police on the ice in the form of an enforcer has done jack **** for this team in the past. What has worked is guys that will go after the other teams stars, this team lost the stick up for our own mentality, something Dan wasn't a fan of apparently.

This team is breaking out of that mentality. First few games will set the tone. Downie and Comeau are going to go out of their way more than usual to make sure teams know what this new era is about. I wish Bortz was healthy to help out.

I'd rather have Clifford than Devane, someone that will make life hell for the other team that isn't useless on the ice.

 

[billybudd]

Easier said than done. It took Columbus...what...4 years to assemble that type of team once they started acquiring guys like that? And Horton and Hartnell are on pretty shaky contracts.

Also, I don't think Devane and MacIntyre are exactly comparables. Mac made the show only because of his fighting. Devane went as high as he did because he was viewed as a longshot Lucic, not because someone thought he could be Jay Rosehill. That didn't work, but that doesn't mean he can't go the Neal/Rupp route. Nobody would compare Payerl to Mac. Devane shouldn't be, either. I disagree on his skating, by the way. The list of 6'6 NHL forwards that get around better than he does is not very long.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Easier said than done. It took Columbus...what...4 years to assemble that type of team once they started acquiring guys like that? And Horton and Hartnell are on pretty shaky contracts.

They made a few very smart trades and got those ornery guys through trades and signing and also guys they drafted. What I wouldn't do to get Boone Jenner on this damn team, I wish we had a prospect like that.

But Dubinsky, Hartnell, Foligno, Wisniewski, Johnson, etc...are all traded/signings. Jenner and Prout are from within and tough as nails, then you have guys that aren't afraid of getting in your face like the diminutive Calvert and Letestu (I still wish we kept him). Oh yeah and Boll, although I don't really remember him much.

But Comeau stood out a lot to me last year in the playoffs.

You are right, it takes time and this team is going in the right direction with that.

Adding Downie and Comeau is a big step, adding a smart 2-way player like Spaling is also good and of course, Hornqvist just annoys people because he will go to the front of the net and battle, and when Bortz is back, he's a guy that is developing his own hate parade. I hope Despres gets a little meaner as well, he has the size to really be effective with that. I'd still want to add someone like Clifford to the bottom 6 and who knows how long Sundqvist stays.