Crosby 19th consecutive PPG season

[Arthur Morgan]

You’ve been told many times in the past. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, I’m guessing it never will.

been told what exactly? havent seen a strong enough argument to place McDavid over Crosby yet... sorry

 

[Toby91ca]

Nah absolutely no way. I think the "team" aspect of the Hart is already overrated enough, but Crosby getting Hart votes because "the Penguins barely made the playoffs with an awful team around him" would be egregious. It would make the Hart a joke IMO.

Not really, he’d likely get some 5th place votes, but wouldn’t be anywhere near contention.

Well goalies generally play less hockey than skaters so can't just say a skater is better/ranked all time higher due to larger body of work imo. Otherwise we cant have any goalie top 15 besides maybe Brodeur.

528 game peak if we look over a 8.5 year period (94 - 02 with 95 being only a 45 game season) ~62 starts a season which is quite the workload when your the top goalie to top 5 goalie each of those years.

Hasek what he accomplished in his late 20s to mid 30s was incredible and unpredecented for most goalies.

Crosby is hurt by injuries, while Hasek by not coming to the NHL when he was younger.

He was still elite at 41 and 42 coming 7th and 5th in vezina race despite being ancient.

I have Hasek/Hull/Crosby interchangable at 6 to 8

If Crosby gets another Cup then he moves to undisputed 6th for me

So here’s what I do: who’s the better skater? Shooter? Passer, etc? It’s an impossible comparison so I simply remove goalies from the comparison for skaters

 

[lokomotiv15]

Nah absolutely no way. I think the "team" aspect of the Hart is already overrated enough, but Crosby getting Hart votes because "the Penguins barely made the playoffs with an awful team around him" would be egregious. It would make the Hart a joke IMO.

Not that I think Crosby should or will win the Hart this year based on those merits, but the "team" aspect and being the most-valuable to their team is literally what the Hart is for. That's like saying "The scoring points aspect of the Art Ross is already overrated enough."

Of course, I could be reading that wrong and you mean the strength of the actual team the player is on is overrated in terms of players getting more credit for being a good player on a bad team, about which I agree.
If another player had the exact same amount of impact as Crosby did on his teams success and his team was better and because of that finished better in the standings, the player that helped the better team finish higher and had the same degree of impact could/should have a better chance at winning the award.

If the Pens beat the odds and make the play-offs, and Sid ends up with 90-95 points, get ready for some 4th and 5th place Hart votes, though, right or wrong.

 

[Mrb1p]

Can't believe this roster is so close to the PO. Crosby should get the hart.

 

[Despote]

Simply a phenomenal hockey career. Amazing what he's been able to accomplish even with all the injuries.

 

[orby]

I am a big fan of Crosby but he should not win the Hart this year. I think it's a 3 horse race with MacKinnon, Kucherov, and McDavid. If Sid were a little closer to the top of the heap in scoring and the Pens were comfortably in a playoff position, then maybe he'd be in the conversation IMO. But they're not.

 

[Strangle]

He is 7th or 8th all time dont see any9ne changing that

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Lemieux
4. Orr
5. Mcdavid

6. Hasek
7. Crosby/Bobby Hull
8. Bobby Hull/Crosby

Legendary career which at one point looked like he may be in the 1st group. Wasn't meant to be but still, he is basically the Kobe Bryant + Tim Duncan mixed of hockey

I think due to era, you have to put Ken Dryden in Haseks spot

It was harder to score in haseks era, so you really need to adjust his stats

Dryden put up similar numbers in an era where scoring was much easier

 

[hamzarocks]

I think due to era, you have to put Ken Dryden in Haseks spot

It was harder to score in haseks era, so you really need to adjust his stats

Dryden put up similar numbers in an era where scoring was much easier

Dryden's career is too short imo and he also played on a dynasty/superior team to Hasek

If Dryden played a full career he is the GOAT goalie for sure

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'm glad that we are past the I have to hate Crosby or Ovechkin part of their careers.

Crosby hitting PPG 19 seasons in a row, and Ovechkin becoming the first player to start their career with 19 straight 20-goal seasons should tell you all you need to know about their place in NHL history.

I see no reason why he won't break this record next year, and Ovechkin has firmly put the all-time goals chase back on track in the past 6 weeks.

Incredible talents. Enjoy them while they're here.

Crosby > Ovechkin all time but i actively am routing for Ovechkin to beat Gretzkys goal scoring record.
Would be an insane feat.

Dunno, I feel like for a season to count as a PPG season, the minimum amount of points that you should have is the amount of games that your team played that season.

If a player plays only 1 NHL game and scores a point in it, is that a PPG season? Just sounds wrong to me.

Yes it would. It's a stat and disagree injuries happen.

True.....the 22 game season kinda tarnishes it. But I guess the 37 points in that span pulls it back just a bit too. Total tug o war there...

But overall great career....too bad about the head though.

Yea it sucks he got injured during his prime. I think l though a guy who has gone point per game every season before that total and then goes 37 in 22 is a safe bet for a healthy season for ppg.

 

[DRW895]

It`s not a seruois record. It`s more like 20 dollas question in "Who wants to be millionaire".
Wayne had exactly point per game in 1995 48 in 48. Nominally crosby surpass him, but it sound funny

 

[thegazelle]

When Crosby first broke into the league, I, like many people did not like him, found his whining at the officials annoying and was happy to see any stat where Ovechkin was beating him.

All these years later, I thoroughly respect the guy, his consistency, his work ethic, his playmaking and his contribution to the game on and off the ice. No off-ice antics. No trying to be in the spotlight all the time and at 37 or whatever he is, he continues to humbly take interviews and downplay his own accomplishments.

For a guy I utterly did not like 20 years ago I now have 5 Crosby jerseys and my kids have watched a guy that has become a great ambassador to this game, and I am blessed that my kids were able to watch one of the all great greats, within their lifetimes. I was able to take my son for his 14th birthday to the Oilers/Pens game in 2017 and what a treat it was to see Crosby live (if I remember right the Pens won in a shootout to the delight of my son)

 

[Toby91ca]

Nah absolutely no way. I think the "team" aspect of the Hart is already overrated enough, but Crosby getting Hart votes because "the Penguins barely made the playoffs with an awful team around him" would be egregious. It would make the Hart a joke IMO.

I think you might be thinking about whether he should win the Hart vs. getting votes. There is no question at all he should not be near the top of voting, we can park that. However, last year he received 1 fourth place vote and 1 fifth place vote while missing the playoffs.....this year, if he gets into the playoffs with less help than what he had last year....he will absolutely at least get a vote or 2.

 

[wetcoast]

I think due to era, you have to put Ken Dryden in Haseks spot

It was harder to score in haseks era, so you really need to adjust his stats

Dryden put up similar numbers in an era where scoring was much easier

League parity was also extremely low in the 70s so it's difficult to compare the Hab dynasty team form the 70s to the roster Hasek had in front of him in Buffalo.

It's an oranges to apples comparison to team strength.

 

[chethejet]

What Crosby does better than anyone is longevity even with missing a season and a half. Sid is far better at this age than anyone including Gretzky who went from the best ever to pretty good. Crosby is still really good. Plus he can go another 2 years here at a high level as one of the best players in the league. No one and I mean no one is close to his play for 20 years. How good do you think all the really good players now look like in 10 years? look at some of the stars now who are in their mid 30's, they are not close to their prime. Crosby still is.

 

[Video Nasty]

What Crosby does better than anyone is longevity even with missing a season and a half. Sid is far better at this age than anyone including Gretzky who went from the best ever to pretty good. Crosby is still really good. Plus he can go another 2 years here at a high level as one of the best players in the league. No one and I mean no one is close to his play for 20 years. How good do you think all the really good players now look like in 10 years? look at some of the stars now who are in their mid 30's, they are not close to their prime. Crosby still is.

Gretzky was still better from ages 35-37.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not that I think Crosby should or will win the Hart this year based on those merits, but the "team" aspect and being the most-valuable to their team is literally what the Hart is for. That's like saying "The scoring points aspect of the Art Ross is already overrated enough."

Of course, I could be reading that wrong and you mean the strength of the actual team the player is on is overrated in terms of players getting more credit for being a good player on a bad team, about which I agree.
If another player had the exact same amount of impact as Crosby did on his teams success and his team was better and because of that finished better in the standings, the player that helped the better team finish higher and had the same degree of impact could/should have a better chance at winning the award.

If the Pens beat the odds and make the play-offs, and Sid ends up with 90-95 points, get ready for some 4th and 5th place Hart votes, though, right or wrong.

Yeah, this is exactly what I mean.

The Hart should be more "best player" than "most important player to his team", and Crosby getting any serious Hart buzz beyond a few 4th or 5th place votes would be way too much "most important player to his team".

 

[authentic]

What Crosby does better than anyone is longevity even with missing a season and a half. Sid is far better at this age than anyone including Gretzky who went from the best ever to pretty good. Crosby is still really good. Plus he can go another 2 years here at a high level as one of the best players in the league. No one and I mean no one is close to his play for 20 years. How good do you think all the really good players now look like in 10 years? look at some of the stars now who are in their mid 30's, they are not close to their prime. Crosby still is.

To be fair Gretzky at 37, a year older than Crosby is now finished tied for 4th in points on a less than stellar New York Rangers team. Crosby is currently 16th and his last top 10 finish (finishing exactly 10th) was when he was 33 in the lockout shortened season, whereas Gretzky at 32/33 led the NHL in points by 10. I think Crosby is comfortably the better two-way player though.

 

[wetcoast]

Gretzky was still better from ages 35-37.

Was he though?

That's my first thought without doing a deep dive.

Gretzky was still putting up points but his overall play wasn't exactly.titlting the ice towards the end of his career but I'm on my phone and haven't done a deep dive for the 3 year period in question and Crosby is still in his age 36 year right?

 

[ijuka]

So an NBA player can't average 30 points per game unless they play all the games?

People seem incredibly unaware that the biggest reason points and ppg are treated differently between sports is due to the size of the numbers

I don't really follow NBA so I really don't care.

78 points in 78 games? Okay, sure. But when we start counting 22-game seasons as PPG seasons, it mostly loses meaning for me.

Take McDavid for example, he's had 8 ppg seasons in a row. The lowest amount of points he had during those is 97.

 

[Video Nasty]

Was he though?

That's my first thought without doing a deep dive.

Gretzky was still putting up points but his overall play wasn't exactly.titlting the ice towards the end of his career but I'm on my phone and haven't done a deep dive for the 3 year period in question and Crosby is still in his age 36 year right?

If Crosby puts up whatever the equivalent would be today to 90 points for a team that scored 197 goals in 1997-1998, which was tied for 3rd in scoring and tied for 7th in PPG, while finishing top 5 in Hart voting, at age 37, I will of course be happy to revisit the position.

 

[wetcoast]

If Crosby puts up whatever the equivalent would be today to 90 points for a team that scored 197 goals in 1997-1998, which was tied for 3rd in scoring and tied for 7th in PPG, while finishing top 5 in Hart voting, at age 37, I will of course be happy to revisit the position.

Not everything revolves around points.

Like I said I'd have to take a deep dive to look at it more closely.

 

[Video Nasty]

Not everything revolves around points.

Like I said I'd have to take a deep dive to look at it more closely.

Yet he somehow scraped just enough votes to finish behind just two other forwards for the award. I’m not looking to go to war on this one, but I’m certainly going to push back on the idea that Crosby was better than Gretzky at this stage of their career.

 

[Toby91ca]

What Crosby does better than anyone is longevity even with missing a season and a half. Sid is far better at this age than anyone including Gretzky who went from the best ever to pretty good. Crosby is still really good. Plus he can go another 2 years here at a high level as one of the best players in the league. No one and I mean no one is close to his play for 20 years. How good do you think all the really good players now look like in 10 years? look at some of the stars now who are in their mid 30's, they are not close to their prime. Crosby still is.

In Gretzky's age 36 season he finished 4th in scoring with 97pts. Because of birthday differences and him turning 36 halfway through that season, if you want to go to the next season when he turned 37, he was 3rd in league scoring with 90pts. Gretzky's stats only look bad because they are being compared to his own stats, against everyone else, he was always one of the greats really up until the year he retired (finished 34th in scoring that year).

 

[Beau Knows]

In a couple years Gretzky might be down to a measly 55 or so records.

Since he retired he's only lost 4 records and managed to gain one, which is pretty amazing given it's been 25 years.

 

[lokomotiv15]

In a couple years Gretzky might be down to a measly 55 or so records.

Since he retired he's only lost 4 records and managed to gain one, which is pretty amazing given it's been 25 years.

Mario shoulda held on to that 2.00+ PPG career avg. 1.88 doesn't have the same ring.