Speculation: Crawford

[piteus]

As much as I and everyone else appreciates a lesson on hippa, when your talking about multi million dollar contracts and players whom teams own the rights to they are made fully aware of the diagnosis and treatment as well as updates to their medical status. The only responsibility the team has is to keep things to a bare minimum as far as discussing things to the press.

It wouldn't matter if Crawford was seeing the team, league or his own doctor hemismunder contract and the hawks are his employer and with that being said both parties are responsible for communication with prognosis and time frame.


Crawford is the asset that the team has millions of dollars invested into and under contract he is obligated to keep them updated , otherwise his contract could be deemed void therefore he would lose millions of dollars should the team chose to legally challenge his injury.


With that being said Stan and Mcdonougha created a P.R nightmare by their either lack of communications with the public or the shear comments Stan made saying yeah I just saw Crawford and he looks good and is training not on ice but will be in training camp. Those comments don't square with Crawford's bombshell statement.

Crawford supposedly got injured while playing as we where told and witnessed him leave the game so , it really doesn't matter if it's concussion, mental illness, drugs or alcohol, the hawks know what his diagnosis is.

Let me be clear on this ...

1. Once Crawford is referred to an outside provider / doctors, the Hawks are NOT privy to the information due to HIPAA Laws. Only Crawford can alllow the the information to go from his personal doctors to the Hawks. That's what happened to Kawhi Leonard. Once Kawhi left the Spurs' care, the Spurs are not entitled to the medical reports unless approved.

2. You are correct in that if a team invests millions of dollars in an asset, you'd think that asset would keep the team involved. However, it doesn't always happen that way. The Colts were clueless of Andrew Luck's rehab when he went to Austria for treatment. The Cubs have no clue in regards to Mark Prior at times. The Spurs and Bulls were kept in the dark in regards to Kawhi and DRose. This is the same reason Belichick did not want Alex Guerrero in his training room. He didn't know what Guerrero was doing.

3. I highly doubt the Hawks can just void Crow's contract when he's getting treatment for an injury, mental health, or substance abuse. The CBA is very clear about that. The NHLPA would have a stink and deservedly so. In the NFL, there are very specific rules about cutting an injured player. In our workplace, we just can't fire employees who acknowledge substance problems. The organization just has be informed that the proper treatment is ongoing by licensed professionals.

=> I do agree ... Stan and the Hawks should have done a better job communicating to the fans. However, there might be other factors that hindered their communications that we are not aware about. Some of it might be: 1) business; 2) Crow's reluctance to share info; 3) respect for a players' privacy; 4) the CBA; 5) etc.

The CBA or a waiver a player signs usually circumvent HIPAA Laws for many sport leagues. This is because GAMBLING is big money. That's why injury reports circumvent HIPAA Laws. Usually, teams do not divulge certain injuries in deference to the player ... not HIPPA Laws. However, when the said player is outside of their provider, it's not mandatory for the player discuss the details with the team.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I've returned. Corey did not seem like himself in those interviews. Something was really off.
It was enough to worry me and make me very concerned.

I just want my goalie back and/or him to just be healthy. Whatever "healthy" is in his case, I don't really care. I just want him to be able to get to that point so he can enjoy his life. I miss watching him play so much. But, if not playing again means that he can recover, then so be it. I just hope things turn out okay.

 

[Taylorst]

Let me be clear on this ...

1. Once Crawford is referred to an outside provider / doctors, the Hawks are NOT privy to the information due to HIPAA Laws. Only Crawford can alllow the the information to go from his personal doctors to the Hawks. That's what happened to Kawhi Leonard. Once Kawhi left the Spurs' care, the Spurs are not entitled to the medical reports unless approved.

2. You are correct in that if a team invests millions of dollars in an asset, you'd think that asset would keep the team involved. However, it doesn't always happen that way. The Colts were clueless of Andrew Luck's rehab when he went to Austria for treatment. The Cubs have no clue in regards to Mark Prior at times. The Spurs and Bulls were kept in the dark in regards to Kawhi and DRose. This is the same reason Belichick did not want Alex Guerrero in his training room. He didn't know what Guerrero was doing.

3. I highly doubt the Hawks can just void Crow's contract when he's getting treatment for an injury, mental health, or substance abuse. The CBA is very clear about that. The NHLPA would have a stink and deservedly so. In the NFL, there are very specific rules about cutting an injured player. In our workplace, we just can't fire employees who acknowledge substance problems. The organization just has be informed that the proper treatment is ongoing by licensed professionals.

=> I do agree ... Stan and the Hawks should have done a better job communicating to the fans. However, there might be other factors that hindered their communications that we are not aware about. Some of it might be: 1) business; 2) Crow's reluctance to share info; 3) respect for a players' privacy; 4) the CBA; 5) etc.

The CBA or a waiver a player signs usually circumvent HIPAA Laws for many sport leagues. This is because GAMBLING is big money. That's why injury reports circumvent HIPAA Laws. Usually, teams do not divulge certain injuries in deference to the player ... not HIPPA Laws. However, when the said player is outside of their provider, it's not mandatory for the player discuss the details with the team.

Thanks for doing a superb job detailing things in a more simple way. I do get what your saying and past injury cases , but I also know that the league and players unions have very clear and specific language in their contracts to protect both parties from bad faith breach of contracts.

I'm just finding it hard to believe that after watching Crawford's speech he seemed very off and i also just find it hard to believe that Stan and the team were left in the dark to the point where Stan would tell us yeah I just saw Crawford and he looks great he has been working out not on the ice yet , but will be in training camp ?

That's the part I think everyone has a hard time with.

I don't care like many other fans his exact injury or the nature, however we do care about him getting healthy and what this teams plans are ? Especially now since we've seen this team regress horribly and now it will be a 4th year of bad hockey with a race to the bottom.

But Thank you for information and for agreeing in some part of my comment.

 

[pvr]

Are you surprised?

Someone who doesn't know the difference between their, there, your, you're, how to use whom and whose correctly, the proper tense of words, etc. doesn't seem a likely candidate to actually read something. At least, IMO.

He also doesn’t know that it’s HIPAA, not HIPPA, and likely doesn’t know what it stands for (otherwise he wouldn’t have made that mistake). It’s a King Kong sized gorilla affecting most of medicine and medical care.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Carcillo tweet from this morning..

All the signs point to post concussive syndrome. The reason the brass can’t comment on that is bc the @NHLBlackhawks are an entity within the @Nhl The #nhl is the league of denial when it comes to proper understanding, diagnosis & care for a traumatic brain injury #CTE

 

[BK]

Carcillo tweet from this morning..

All the signs point to post concussive syndrome. The reason the brass can’t comment on that is bc the @NHLBlackhawks are an entity within the @Nhl The #nhl is the league of denial when it comes to proper understanding, diagnosis & care for a traumatic brain injury #CTE

Carcillo has been going really hard at the NHL/NHLPA and unfortunately his message is getting lost because of how he is going about it.

 

[ColdSteel2]

What I don’t like about this situation is the mystery and the fact that everything always goes so negative to start, there’s always someone credible waiting to say something terrible, then the true facts come out or they don’t. It just makes you not even care what anyone says about it or why he is even out. He’s either playing or he isn’t.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

...and part of his process from a concussion requires he stay away from the team.

 

[ColdSteel2]

It’s moreso the fact that it’s like the boy who cried wolf. You keep hearing all of this negative stuff, and it comes to a point where someone could be telling you the stone cold truth based on factual evidence and you feel almost an obligation to dismiss it anyway.

What have we had, people stating things as fact about incidents with Sharp, Keith, Toews, Kane and surely not all of that stuff was true. I’m sure I’m missing a lot of it too. It’s that saying, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. If I can’t personally interact with Crawford for as much time as it takes me to come to a conclusion on what happened and why, then nothing else really matters in it. I can understand that people want to listen to the information and try to figure it out. But there’s just too many people spouting bull out there to believe anyone in my opinion.

It also emboldens the team and players, or anyone dealing with anything, to have their own “scandal” or “house of cards” because they already know what is going on in the discourse so they either want to flip it back on people or they just don’t give a f*** anymore. It’s unhealthy. Good luck ever getting a straight answer about this or anything else.

 

[Pez68]

Carcillo tweet from this morning..

All the signs point to post concussive syndrome. The reason the brass can’t comment on that is bc the @NHLBlackhawks are an entity within the @Nhl The #nhl is the league of denial when it comes to proper understanding, diagnosis & care for a traumatic brain injury #CTE

Except for the fact that they have not hesitated in the past to comment on guys having concussions.....

 

[Game suspension]

Except for the fact that they have not hesitated in the past to comment on guys having concussions.....

It is totally self serving. And completely wrong. Thanks Dan. Hope ya get that lawsuit ya want.

 

[Pez68]

I've talked with Carcillo on several occasions, as he is quite active at MB Ice Arena. I do not think that is true. I think his motives are just. I just think he is way too emotional when it comes to this subject, and it hits too close to home for him to be rational. He needs to take a step back. He seems to be a genuinely nice guy, that loves the game, and just wants to help. Could be wrong, but I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Yea, I don’t pretend to know Carcillo or his motives but he comes off as seriously pissed about the NHL’s stance on concussions and CTE - understandably so. I feel like it’s genuine to boot. But it’s misplaced anger in some cases and Danny has never been the type to play his cards close to the vest.

He’s an extremely emotional guy. It’s what got him to the show.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He also loses a lot of credibility because CTE and concussions were widely known in 2012/2013 when he was still intentionally injuring and targeting players

So really he should keep his mouth shut as he tried to ruin more then enough lives with how he played on ice and showed no care or regard for health of other players as recently as right before his retirement



Everyone knew about CTE and issues surrounding concussions when Carcillo tried to intentionally injure Gilbert

So really Carcillo should shut his trap and is not the person who should be talking about this. Also he comes off as someone simply against league for his career ending early

 

[Blue Liner]

I've talked with Carcillo on several occasions, as he is quite active at MB Ice Arena. I do not think that is true. I think his motives are just. I just think he is way too emotional when it comes to this subject, and it hits too close to home for him to be rational. He needs to take a step back. He seems to be a genuinely nice guy, that loves the game, and just wants to help. Could be wrong, but I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character.

I have spoken to Dan a few times over the past couple of years at the rink and I feel the same way about all of this.

 

[Hawkaholic]

He also loses a lot of credibility because CTE and concussions were widely known in 2012/2013 when he was still intentionally injuring and targeting players

So really he should keep his mouth shut as he tried to ruin more then enough lives with how he played on ice and showed no care or regard for health of other players as recently as right before his retirement

Everyone knew about CTE and issues surrounding concussions when Carcillo tried to intentionally injure Gilbert

So really Carcillo should shut his trap and is not the person who should be talking about this. Also he comes off as someone simply against league for his career ending ear

Ya, I don't agree with your position on that.
Yes, Carcillo played the game the wrong way sometimes, doesn't mean he shouldn't be speaking up.

People who kill other people sometimes sit down with young kids involved in gangs and tell them they shouldn't kill other people or they will end up in jail wasting their lives.
Should they also shut up and not give these kids advice?

 

[ChiHawks10]

He also loses a lot of credibility because CTE and concussions were widely known in 2012/2013 when he was still intentionally injuring and targeting players

So really he should keep his mouth shut as he tried to ruin more then enough lives with how he played on ice and showed no care or regard for health of other players as recently as right before his retirement



Everyone knew about CTE and issues surrounding concussions when Carcillo tried to intentionally injure Gilbert

So really Carcillo should shut his trap and is not the person who should be talking about this. Also he comes off as someone simply against league for his career ending ear

Come on. So every player who has ever done something similar, (and it's a LOT of NHL players that have done it) are trying to intentionally injure the guy they do it to?

Jesus, your hot takes are off the chart lately man.

He loses no credibility. He's trying to start a movement against the organization he dedicated his life to, who seems to deny the fact that CTE exists in the NHL. He's doing it for the memory of his friends and colleagues who aren't around anymore because of CTE.

He was never "intentionally injuring" and "targeting" players. I highly, highly, highly doubt that very many NHLers these days(if any) go out specifically targeting guys, and specifically intending to injure guys... It's just not the way they are. Bad plays happen. Guys get amped up and throw an early hit, or a high hit, or a cheap play like a slash/spear. That doesn't mean they're constantly trying to intentionally injure people.

 

[piteus]

CTE is a very tough issue for the professional leagues to admit because it could expose them to lawsuits. Common sense says when you get hit in the head repeatedly ... you're going to bruise your brain. That can't be good for the long term.

Now imagine being on skates and able to create even more FORCE (mass x acclerarion = newtons). You can accelerate far better in skates on the ice (less friction) than with sneakers on the ground. Then add an imoveable object (the boards). Hockey is not an easy sport.

Hockey might be just as dangerous as football in regards to CTE. There's no doubt the one off hits in hockey has the potential to be far worse due to the ability to accelerate. And has helmet technology really gotten better?

That said, the athletes know the risks when they sign up. However, I hope the NHL has a strong post career healthcare program.

 

[BK]

Helmet tech has slowly improved but it is still not good enough. Another issue is that as gear gets lighter it is more stiff so it can increase the damage that a player can do. They equipment companies need to look into ways to make get more safe but also making it softer with will lessen the impact it can have in causing injury. I am specifically talking shoulder and elbow pads.

 

[Blue Liner]

There's only so much helmets really do. It's not so much about the direct impact on the skull itself, it's the jarring of the brain within the skull. Even a great helmet doesn't fully prevent that, and it's been shown that CTE ultimately isn't just about the jarring hits, it's the repeated, habitual small hits that cause the brain to move around and bump into the skull numerous times, over and over again over the course of years that's the bigger problem.

Also, taking bare knuckles to the face and head repeatedly renders helmets useless.

As to them knowing what they sign up for, maybe now today you have a better idea, but the league itself is still denying any correlation to it and that's the league you're trying to play in. Can you really know what you're signing up for if the league itself won't acknowledge it and wont' provide any care plan for your post-career? I mean, I suppose you do know because THAT is the current situation; you know you're signing up to potentially suffer these injuries based on what you hear publicly elsewhere and that the league may not help you at all. That's kind of a crap sandwich, but, it's a fact I suppose.

Ultimately, the leagues just need to acknowledge today that this exists and it's real and "here is what we are doing going forward to address it. These are the limitations based on x,y and z. These are the current conditions under which you may play X sport. As new things are discovered, they will be disclosed and we will revisit this policy. Do you agree to this knowing what is known today? If so, sign here to waive responsibility of x, y, z." Ok, now you've signed off on knowing you're at risk but making a choice to play anyway. Just put it all out there for everybody and let players make their choice.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He was never "intentionally injuring" and "targeting" players. I highly, highly, highly doubt that very many NHLers these days(if any) go out specifically targeting guys, and specifically intending to injure guys... It's just not the way they are. Bad plays happen. Guys get amped up and throw an early hit, or a high hit, or a cheap play like a slash/spear. That doesn't mean they're constantly trying to intentionally injure people.

Go watch that Gilbert hit and tell me it wasn't an attempt to injure a defenseless player. Hell go watch when he went to take out Kopecky only to nearly kill Carter

Let me guess Torres and Cooke were great guys who played clean games according to you?

 

[piteus]

There's only so much helmets really do. It's not so much about the direct impact on the skull itself, it's the jarring of the brain within the skull. Even a great helmet doesn't fully prevent that, and it's been shown that CTE ultimately isn't just about the jarring hits, it's the repeated, habitual small hits that cause the brain to move around and bump into the skull numerous times, over and over again over the course of years that's the bigger problem.

Also, taking bare knuckles to the face and head repeatedly renders helmets useless.

As to them knowing what they sign up for, maybe now today you have a better idea, but the league itself is still denying any correlation to it and that's the league you're trying to play in. Can you really know what you're signing up for if the league itself won't acknowledge it and wont' provide any care plan for your post-career? I mean, I suppose you do know because THAT is the current situation; you know you're signing up to potentially suffer these injuries based on what you hear publicly elsewhere and that the league may not help you at all. That's kind of a crap sandwich, but, it's a fact I suppose.

Ultimately, the leagues just need to acknowledge today that this exists and it's real and "here is what we are doing going forward to address it. These are the limitations based on x,y and z. These are the current conditions under which you may play X sport. As new things are discovered, they will be disclosed and we will revisit this policy. Do you agree to this knowing what is known today? If so, sign here to waive responsibility of x, y, z." Ok, now you've signed off on knowing you're at risk but making a choice to play anyway. Just put it all out there for everybody and let players make their choice.

The potential lawsuits are ambiguous because of the past tobacco settlements. Because it could cost into the billions, professional leagues don't want to take the chance. That's why the NFL continues to deny a CTE connection due to the ongoing lawsuits. I believe current and future players now sign a waiver acknowledging the general dangers of football (or something like that where the NFL announces a vague health risk claim like tobacco).

We all know repeated hits to the head are dangerous. However, until the lawsuits are settled, professional leagues will always be noncommital about CTE and it's relevancy to their sport.

That said, I agree that better post career healthcare is needed. It's a crime the old timers aren't better cared for.

Common sense and lawyers don't always mix ... although it's supposed to in court. When money and power are at stake, there will always be spin.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Go watch that Gilbert hit and tell me it wasn't an attempt to injure a defenseless player. Hell go watch when he went to take out Kopecky only to nearly kill Carter

Let me guess Torres and Cooke were great guys who played clean games according to you?

Did I say that?

Most guys aren't going through their NHL career specifically trying to intentionally hurt guys. Are there exceptions? Yeah. Do some guys skirt the edge? Yeah. But I don't feel like they're always trying to intentionally hurt people. And I've watched the Gilbert hit. I don't think he was intentionally trying to injure a defenseless player. Maybe him and Gilbert had a beef previously and Carcillo took it took far? It was a bad hit, and uncalled for. But I doubt his thinking was "I'm going to try and hurt this MF'er right now when he's not able to defend himself!" Why would he target Gilbert if he was trying to hurt someone? Gilbert isn't anything special, and never really was... Your logic here makes no sense.

Why are you always going to the extremes with everything? There's no in between with you it seems. You do the same on poli. It's always one extreme or another, when things aren't ever that clear-cut.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

What about cross checking an unsuspecting player away from puck

No intent to injure?

What about instigating a fight and punching player before he has chance to even drop gloves and square up

No intent to injure?

What do you think he was going to do to a defenseless Kopecky here?

No intent to injure?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Carcillo tweet from this morning..

All the signs point to post concussive syndrome. The reason the brass can’t comment on that is bc the @NHLBlackhawks are an entity within the @Nhl The #nhl is the league of denial when it comes to proper understanding, diagnosis & care for a traumatic brain injury #CTE

Seems like something he has no business commenting on