Craig MacTavish has had a bad first 18 months as GM

[Beerfish]

The problem with Ribero isn't his play.

It's his well known cocaine addiction/supplier, and the types of people his type of behaviour attracts. This has been well known since Montreal.
Basically off the ice, he acts like Leo Dicaprio's character in Wolf of Wallstreet.

He's also charismatic enough to affect our impressionable youth?

His resume includes:
- Gainey trading him for a guy with a broken ankle and nearly retired.
- Bought out by a franchise that HEMORRHAGES money and can't really afford buyouts.

I am completely ok with him never wearing the Oilers Jersey.

BTW, take this with a grain of salt, but I do recall most of this stuff circulating on the radio here in Montreal (and I personally
witnessed this type of behaviour when I saw them out).

http://habsrus.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.com/thread/10926

The involvement with the Hells Angels (although I believe the Kostitsyn Brothers were more heavily implicated in that than Theodore), but the behaviour remains this way with Ribeiro despite going through multiple cities, and personal claims that he cleaned up. This has now been ongoing for over a decade, and multiple teams.

Here's some stuff from the Habs board:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=7477943&postcount=225

That's fine, move on to plan B or C or D.

The sins of our Center position.

1) Team knew for sure long long ago, probably mid last year that Gagner was not going to be here or play C.
2) Forcing an 18-19 year old rookie into action.
3) Shaky at the very best alternatives to RNH. They have to pray Arcobello will be more good than bad and after the top 4 it is scary bad.
4) Just inviting disaster by not really taking into account inevitable injuries at the position.

All of this leads to two things, either the problems at Center drag the team down or we get to a point where we are desperate in season and have to over pay to get someone.

 

[The Human Torch]

He hired the worst coach we have ever had

George "You know who'd make an excellent captain? Shayne Corson!" Burnett says hi.

 

[McSuper]

MacT has done a good job to solidify the goaltending but, he has done a piss-poor job of building our D. We have six third-pair defensemen and that is why we suck. For two summers he has signed warm bodies to play the blue line and we continue to lose - time to step it up and bring in some real D.

I like Eberle but, we should deal him for a solid top-pair D man.

You talk like you know what he has done . How do you know he has not tried to trade Eberle for a top pairing D . If another GM is not willing to do a trade what is Mac T to do ? Hold then at gun point until they give in ?
No one knows what Mac T has tried to do or not do . All this is guessing . Maybe everyone that Mac T has added for his 2nd choice , can you prove other wise ? fact is we are a deeper team now then beofre MacT took over . It up to the coaches to get more out of the players . See Calgary coach .

 

[Oi'll say!]

You talk like you know what he has done . How do you know he has not tried to trade Eberle for a top pairing D . If another GM is not willing to do a trade what is Mac T to do ? Hold then at gun point until they give in ?
No one knows what Mac T has tried to do or not do . All this is guessing . Maybe everyone that Mac T has added for his 2nd choice , can you prove other wise ? fact is we are a deeper team now then beofre MacT took over . It up to the coaches to get more out of the players . See Calgary coach .

last year we were treated to what was by far the worst season of hockey ever played by the Oilers. 8 times shut out, 30 or so losses by 3 or more goals, and a regular regimen of being down 2-0 at the 30 minute mark.

MacT paid premium dollars for mediocre players to add depth for this season. That's because players who had a lot of trade value before MacT came here were traded for peanuts within 5 months of him being here. The Oilers are basically filling holes left by departing rfas with ufa players plus a 3rd overall pick who is basically just a testament to MacTs ineptitude.

 

[Oi'll say!]

This is my favourite thread ever. I could talk about MacT all day.

 

[Oilfan2]

last year we were treated to what was by far the worst season of hockey ever played by the Oilers. 8 times shut out, 30 or so losses by 3 or more goals, and a regular regimen of being down 2-0 at the 30 minute mark.

MacT paid premium dollars for mediocre players to add depth for this season. That's because players who had a lot of trade value before MacT came here were traded for peanuts within 5 months of him being here. The Oilers are basically filling holes left by departing rfas with ufa players plus a 3rd overall pick who is basically just a testament to MacTs ineptitude.

LOL...A lot of trade value? Because, you know, some fans on HF thought they'd get Malkin for Hemsky and a pick...

 

[UglyStupidAds]

Olli Jokinen is a proven veteran with size, he plays right in the exact spot where we need him, and was signed for $1.5M less than BPouliot.

Do you know that he would have signed here for that amount? Even then how happy would you be if our 2nd or 3rd line centre had 0 points in 15 games? I already said I would like to have him here but the Oilers aren't doing better with Olli Jokinen.

If we were all saying "this team needs a checking winger of dubious quality with good advanced stats at any cost" and he went and signed Pouliot you'd have hit the nail right on the head there. I think the quote going around here was "we need to fire the coach and then reassess the value of the players on the roster before we continue with the fire sale".

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But let me try to answer by saying how much worse the Oilers would look right now with Hall out if Pouliot wasn't there to fill his space on the top line. Suddenly Perron is there and then our 2nd line has...Hendricks on it? Pakarinen? Ugly... Pouliot is still a good signing in my book.

MacT spent to the cap signing plugging wingers and incompetent goalies and defensemen for enormous amounts of cash. Now the team is at the bottom of the league with top end payroll and expensive rfa signings coming up.

Some of the money spent (Eberle) is not on MacT and furthermore the Oilers are 17th in cap spent. They should be doing better than they are with the money they are spending but it's a well established fact that the Oilers have to dish out a little extra to get free agents to come here.

He hired the worst coach we have ever had to develop the most important players we've brought into the org in the past 25 years and refuses to see the writing on the wall (it's the size of the HOLLYWOOD sign) after 100 games.

No argument that the Eakins hire was not a strong decision but bringing Craig Ramsay in to help this season was a step in the right direction.

A "Time to Fire MacT" thread would be 1 part prediction and 99 parts hindsight right about now. The guy has already done almost everything he could to run the franchise into the ground and he has only been here for 1.2 seasons. The only way he makes things worse now is if he goes on TV and says "Taylor Hall should be playing hockey for us right now but he's a *****" (and yeah that's exactly the kind of thing MacT does).

Hindsight applies to something you did not something you want to do. I can say "in hindsight I shouldn't have eaten that 10th taco" but not "in hindsight it's time to stop eating". Furthermore you're just being ridiculous if you think MacT would call Taylor Hall a *****.

No, it's not really a case of "he's doing pretty much what we would all expect in this situation" lol. He's not fit to be the night shift manager of a Denny's let alone masterminding a multi-million dollar business.

I never said that quote. I said that the boards can be pretty bipolar when it comes to discussing MacT. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. He could certainly be doing better but he could easily be doing worse. (See George MacPhee for an example).

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Too many assumptions are made here on whether or not a player would even sign here.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Too many assumptions are made here on whether or not a player would even sign here.

There's a reason beyond just the weather UFA's won't sign here. It's the management.

Souray who is FROM here couldn't stand playing for them. I believe he was correct with most of what he was implicating.

Then you see what Tom Renney recently said, Pitkannen, Whitney, Jones, etc.

I mean say what you want about Burke, at the very least he doesn't slander his own players to the media (including the ones he trades away). He does a LOT to take the pressure off of the players and put it on himself. Have we ever seen that?

The difference is, players LOVE playing for GM's like Burke, and they hate playing for our OBC management.

Have you seen the attitudes of Jones and Whitney before they left? What kind of management allows that kind of demoralization to occur DURING a season? What kind of management creates nuclear deterrents that make it impossible to focus?


Back when he was GM of the CBJ, our very own Scott Howson was the idiot that announced to the media that his own player Rick Nash had asked for a trade.

Great way to go in, wreck a room for the final 20 games you idiot.

The NHL is a pretty small group of players who all seem to know each other.
Players like Nash WILL speak to other players about Howson treated him.
(I know most people confide with their peers, the horrible managers they've worked with in the past, and set off the warning bells). Especially for players who are highly sought after and have choice in their destination.


Personal Ego of the OBC > Team.


God I could rant about this garbage for hours.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

The stupid thing about me is that I've agreed with almost every single decision the old boys club has made.

- "we can't get UFA's so we need to be aggressive and offer sheet players" - yep sounds good. (this leads to Penner and Burke vs. Lowe)
- "we need to focus on development" - of course (this leads to several terrible players being given "their shot"; Dubnyk, JDD, Arcobello, Plante, Chorney, Reddox etc. )
- "we need to 'find a way' to add young dynamic players' " - tanking? Ok, sounds good. Horc and Hemmer clearly aren't good enough to get us back to the playoffs.
-Hall, RNH, Yakupov? - Yep, like the picks.
- Belanger? -Sounds good....I actually thought he used to be a good player.


the only things I didn't like at the time were the Smid trade and Cam Barker that I can remember.

I liked most of MAcT's additions. I can complain that these guys "aren't doing enough" clearly....but I don't know what the real options are.

 

[MrM]

The stupid thing about me is that I've agreed with almost every single decision the old boys club has made.

- "we can't get UFA's so we need to be aggressive and offer sheet players" - yep sounds good. (this leads to Penner and Burke vs. Lowe)
- "we need to focus on development" - of course (this leads to several terrible players being given "their shot"; Dubnyk, JDD, Arcobello, Plante, Chorney, Reddox etc. )
- "we need to 'find a way' to add young dynamic players' " - tanking? Ok, sounds good. Horc and Hemmer clearly aren't good enough to get us back to the playoffs.
-Hall, RNH, Yakupov? - Yep, like the picks.
- Belanger? -Sounds good....I actually thought he used to be a good player.


the only things I didn't like at the time were the Smid trade and Cam Barker that I can remember.

I liked most of MAcT's additions. I can complain that these guys "aren't doing enough" clearly....but I don't know what the real options are.

I wasn't on board with MacT from the beginning because he was just handed the job but i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I think one of our biggest inabilities is assessing talent. That is the long and short of it. The braintrust isn't capable of identifying and developing players. This goes for players in the draft, players already in the NHL and for that matter, coaches. We don't have the right people in place.

 

[Up the Irons]

I wasn't on board with MacT from the beginning because he was just handed the job but i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I think one of our biggest inabilities is assessing talent. That is the long and short of it. The braintrust isn't capable of identifying and developing players. This goes for players in the draft, players already in the NHL and for that matter, coaches. We don't have the right people in place.

10-4

Even their philosophy on WHAT IS a good a player is off. Their philosophy on how to win in the WC is completely effed up.

They're lost.

 

[Beerfish]

Too many assumptions are made here on whether or not a player would even sign here.

This is the never ending excuse as to why our gm doesn't improve a position. We can only go by the info we know.

1) We managed to get 2 wingers and 2 dmen
2) Some of the guys we did not sign sat around for a month after fa and signed for one year for a million.

 

[Soundwave]

I wasn't on board with MacT from the beginning because he was just handed the job but i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I think one of our biggest inabilities is assessing talent. That is the long and short of it. The braintrust isn't capable of identifying and developing players. This goes for players in the draft, players already in the NHL and for that matter, coaches. We don't have the right people in place.

100% spot on.

If this was basketball, maybe Lowe/Mac T would be OK, 2-3 really talented players usually means a decent team.

But not in hockey. That's where management and drafting comes in, every team has a couple of good players, what separates the good teams from the bad teams is how they develop and recognize talent to fill out the roster.

The Oilers have been brutal at that. Any team can pick no.1 overall.

 

[rboomercat90]

I wasn't on board with MacT from the beginning because he was just handed the job but i would give him the benefit of the doubt. I think one of our biggest inabilities is assessing talent. That is the long and short of it. The braintrust isn't capable of identifying and developing players. This goes for players in the draft, players already in the NHL and for that matter, coaches. We don't have the right people in place.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this isn't a new thing either. This glaring weakness in managements talent goes back to their beginnings here. Almost 15 years ago. These guys have never had what it takes to build a team. It isn't just that the game has changed and they weren't able to adapt, they never had the skill for it.

 

[Champion39]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this isn't a new thing either. This glaring weakness in managements talent goes back to their beginnings here. Almost 15 years ago. These guys have never had what it takes to build a team. It isn't just that the game has changed and they weren't able to adapt, they never had the skill for it.

Yep. Scouting has been awful like everyone knows but a lot of the Free Agents brought in have been terrible. Besides trading for Perron, the Oilers haven’t brought in anyone great (Jury still out on Scrivens and Fasth)

 

[Oi'll say!]

LOL...A lot of trade value? Because, you know, some fans on HF thought they'd get Malkin for Hemsky and a pick...

OK, let's think for a second about how much trade value Gagner and DD had b4 the season started.

1) Gagner was the 15th highest scoring center in the nhl and had points in 25 of the first 29 games of the previous season. He was signed to a $5m a yr contract. Was he worth peanuts before the season started?

2) DD was coming off 3 seasons with a combined .916 sv% and was a young goalie with his best years ahead of him. What would the Oilers have to trade away right now to bring in a goalie like that? A 5th round pick or something more substantial?



The short answer was yes they had a lot of trade value, and there's absolutely no question whatsoever. But there's the recap for ya.

 

[Oi'll say!]

Do you know that he would have signed here for that amount? Even then how happy would you be if our 2nd or 3rd line centre had 0 points in 15 games? I already said I would like to have him here but the Oilers aren't doing better with Olli Jokinen.

No I don't think that OJ would sign here, but that's mostly because of MacT/Eakins. With another coach and GM here we can expect much better.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But let me try to answer by saying how much worse the Oilers would look right now with Hall out if Pouliot wasn't there to fill his space on the top line. Suddenly Perron is there and then our 2nd line has...Hendricks on it? Pakarinen? Ugly... Pouliot is still a good signing in my book.

We still have LD for the second line remember? because of how useless MacT and Eakins are.

Some of the money spent (Eberle) is not on MacT and furthermore the Oilers are 17th in cap spent. They should be doing better than they are with the money they are spending but it's a well established fact that the Oilers have to dish out a little extra to get free agents to come here.

Signing Eberle isn't what concerns me. It's all the other ok nhl'ers signed for premium salaries.

No argument that the Eakins hire was not a strong decision but bringing Craig Ramsay in to help this season was a step in the right direction.

Signing Eakins for such a long time with such a high salary was a colossal mistake. Not firing him before the season started was an even bigger mistake.

Hindsight applies to something you did not something you want to do. I can say "in hindsight I shouldn't have eaten that 10th taco" but not "in hindsight it's time to stop eating". Furthermore you're just being ridiculous if you think MacT would call Taylor Hall a *****.

Hindsight applies to something you should have done just as easily. Should have bought shares in apple, etc.

I never said that quote. I said that the boards can be pretty bipolar when it comes to discussing MacT. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. He could certainly be doing better but he could easily be doing worse. (See George MacPhee for an example).

You were insinuating that he was making moves that we would have made, and addressing the issues we were all saying needed to be addressed. That's not the case.

MacT was running his stupid mouth and making changes that noone here wanted to be made. We didn't want to fire Krueger, or publicly question DD b4 the season started. And with the benefit of hindsight those were really bad _______ moves. Now that the Oilers suck as a result of his idiotic moves they are signing bad players to high salaries.

Things are getting worse and worse and the 1st overalls that were supposed to make MacT look brilliant are stranded in a sea of incompetence.


MacT's HAS had a bad first 18 months as a gm. that's quite an understatement to be completely honest. The only thing that could pull his fat out of the fire is if RNH, Hall (the guy whose knees I've been worried about since the draft) and Yak rise to superstardom and carry this team despite everything else that's going on (thanks to MacT).

 

[Oi'll say!]

Too many assumptions are made here on whether or not a player would even sign here.

If the team was doing better, IE on the upswing, signing players here would be far easier.

We've seen elite players in every sport choose their UFA destination based on where they thought they had the best chance of winning a championship. The Oilers are signing the guys who are looking for work, not rings.

 

[McJeety McJeet]

George "You know who'd make an excellent captain? Shayne Corson!" Burnett says hi.

GB: 0.385 points per game
DE: 0.409 points per game

Not seeing much of a difference TBH. Looking at the two teams I'd say Dallas has a MUCH better group of players to use. Ranford was beginning to slow down at that point. Weight was young, they were all young and they had no money to spend. This oiler team has 3 first overall picks that have been in the league a while and no money problems other than being close to the cap (lol).

Sather was smart enough not to give an AHL coach a 4 year contract though. And he was willing to fix a mistake he made in about 35 games.

Don't know how anyone could say Dallas Eakins is a better coach than any other head coach in Oiler history. The team isn't prepared to play hockey games and I believe coach/mgmt is responsible for that. If they play a system it would be news to me. I do see a shocking amount of free shots from the slot the last couple years. I do see a god awful powerplay that gives up as many chances as it creates.

 

[Quinteoilers]

At least MacT isn't Jerry Jones...owner and GM. I'm hoping Batman will have enough of these clowns and clean house. Only keeping Nicholson-fire the rest GM down to coach. (The scouting department will be put on notice as well. Almost none of our 2-7th round picks turn out)

 

[rboomercat90]

GB: 0.385 points per game
DE: 0.409 points per game

Not seeing much of a difference TBH. Looking at the two teams I'd say Dallas has a MUCH better group of players to use. Ranford was beginning to slow down at that point. Weight was young, they were all young and they had no money to spend. This oiler team has 3 first overall picks that have been in the league a while and no money problems other than being close to the cap (lol).

Sather was smart enough not to give an AHL coach a 4 year contract though. And he was willing to fix a mistake he made in about 35 games.

Don't know how anyone could say Dallas Eakins is a better coach than any other head coach in Oiler history. The team isn't prepared to play hockey games and I believe coach/mgmt is responsible for that. If they play a system it would be news to me. I do see a shocking amount of free shots from the slot the last couple years. I do see a god awful powerplay that gives up as many chances as it creates.

What you're forgetting about when you compare Eakins to Burnett is that Sather never wanted Burnett in the first place. He was Pocklington's choice because he thought he looked better in a suit than Teddy Green did. Not sure how much help Slats gave him. Looked like he gave him enough rope to hang himself and stood back and waited. Eakins on the other hand was Mactavish's hand picked choice. He desperately wanted him to succeed and has been fully supportive of him. No question Eakins has been a bigger failure than Burnett.

 

[shoop]

OK, let's think for a second about how much trade value Gagner and DD had b4 the season started.

1) Gagner was the 15th highest scoring center in the nhl and had points in 25 of the first 29 games of the previous season. He was signed to a $5m a yr contract. Was he worth peanuts before the season started?

2) DD was coming off 3 seasons with a combined .916 sv% and was a young goalie with his best years ahead of him. What would the Oilers have to trade away right now to bring in a goalie like that? A 5th round pick or something more substantial?



The short answer was yes they had a lot of trade value, and there's absolutely no question whatsoever. But there's the recap for ya.

So you are saying their trade value was somehow hurt in the 2013-14 season due to something the Oilers did? They gave Doobie the starting job with no competition and he failed.

Hendricks for Dubnyk was a great deal for the Oilers. The only issue with Hendricks on the Preds board was his salary, nothing about his play. Dubnyk was traded from Nashville to Montreal for futures. He never played for the Habs and wasn't re-signed.

Gagner for Purcell has worked out pretty well for the Oilers.

Would the Oilers make those trades the other way now? Hendricks for Dubnyk or Purcell for Gagner? Probably not.

If the trade value for Dubnyk and Gagner was that high before the 2013-14 season then their trade value was overstated. Which may be why they weren't traded.

 

[Fat Balloon]

When MacT was hired we heard from him that he is impatient and he talked about bold moves. We haven't seen anything bold and we've seen a lot of patience with a losing team. Hiring Eakins may be the only action that potentially fits into the bold category but MacT has shown a lot of patience with Eakins too.

I think this team is scared to make a bold move in terms of the roster. Management is in love with the 1st round picks they've drafted evidenced by Lowe's comments about half the league willing to trade for our roster. I think that management thinks that on paper and by pedigree we should be a great team. That would explain why we've only seen small moves and the "core" hasn't been touched even year after year of the same losing results.

Is management already thinking about next year? This season is on the verge of being a write off with no playoffs and only another high first round pick as a reward.

We've also heard the rumours from other teams that the Oilers are overvaluing and over pricing their assets in potential trade scenario- another example of being afraid to make a bold move and being in love with your team on paper based on pedigree.

I hate to say it but I wouldn't be surprised if we see no major changes other than bringing in another backup to compete for the starting job and bringing up some prospects like Nurse with the hope that the same core finally has to play better and compete for the playoffs.

 

[Beerfish]

When MacT was hired we heard from him that he is impatient and he talked about bold moves. We haven't seen anything bold and we've seen a lot of patience with a losing team. Hiring Eakins may be the only action that potentially fits into the bold category but MacT has shown a lot of patience with Eakins too.

I think this team is scared to make a bold move in terms of the roster. Management is in love with the 1st round picks they've drafted evidenced by Lowe's comments about half the league willing to trade for our roster. I think that management thinks that on paper and by pedigree we should be a great team. That would explain why we've only seen small moves and the "core" hasn't been touched even year after year of the same losing results.

Is management already thinking about next year? This season is on the verge of being a write off with no playoffs and only another high first round pick as a reward.

We've also heard the rumours from other teams that the Oilers are overvaluing and over pricing their assets in potential trade scenario- another example of being afraid to make a bold move and being in love with your team on paper based on pedigree.

I hate to say it but I wouldn't be surprised if we see no major changes other than bringing in another backup to compete for the starting job and bringing up some prospects like Nurse with the hope that the same core finally has to play better and compete for the playoffs.

They are looking towards the new arena, as simple as that. They would like to win now but it is no critical thing until they see some vacant seats in the new barn.