TSN: Craig Button: I don't think the Leafs are Stanley Cup Contenders

[hotpaws]

Taxes in Ontario are higher than every US State. Since federal taxes are the bulk of income tax in Canada that applies to most Provinces.

Tavares was offered more money to play in San Jose but he chose Toronto instead.

taxes in NY/California are much higher than non state tax teams like Florida and are similar to what they are in Ontario and the only team getting discounts was T-Bay which also gets ignored to deflect away from the Dube's incompetence

you're also leaving out they pay taxes for away game in the state/province they play them

as i said , Tavares isn't worth 11m never mind believing he should have been paid more than McD and every time a player signs a huge ufa deal they say they were offered more including the great David Clarkson , lol

 

[BayStreetBully]

Taxes in Ontario are higher than every US State. Since federal taxes are the bulk of income tax in Canada that applies to most Provinces.

Tavares was offered more money to play in San Jose but he chose Toronto instead.

Taxes is just a convenient excuse to downplay smart teams who actually use leverage. Tampa signs their players for good value because they choose not to give in to high demands of players. You think Kucherov is sitting there saying “give me less gross salary because Florida taxes are better”? No. If Tampa was weak enough to give Kucherov $13 million, he would’ve taken it.

Toronto doesn’t use their leverage over the unreasonable demands of their players. Think Marner ever would’ve left Toronto on his own accord? No. Playing for the Leafs brand, endorsement money, the “value” of being a hometown hero... that’s all leverage the Leafs failed to use, and on a RFA no less.

 

[sxvnert]

Only the media were the ones claiming the leafs had a snowballs chance of contending for the cup.

 

[Shayne Corsi]

Grass is green. See, I can do it too.

 

[slozo]

Pretty easy to get dismissive because it is Button, but it's hard to argue against this right now. Going back to Christmas of last season, the Leafs in their last 54 games the Leafs are just 25-21-8 which is 19th ranked in the NHL which is a 88 point pace and most likely a non-playoff team.

If Button doesn't think the Leafs are Stanley Cup contenders, I don't think Button is an above average hockey analyst.

He's just jumping on the Chicken Little bandwagon because the Leafs have started out a bit ho-hum with their somewhat difficult schedule to start the season. Don't worry, when the Leafs right the ship and go on a winning streak, he'll be on that bandwagon too.

Of course the Leafs are still Cup contenders. Any analyst worth their salt should have this opinion.

 

[FlareKnight]

If Button doesn't think the Leafs are Stanley Cup contenders, I don't think Button is an above average hockey analyst.

He's just jumping on the Chicken Little bandwagon because the Leafs have started out a bit ho-hum with their somewhat difficult schedule to start the season. Don't worry, when the Leafs right the ship and go on a winning streak, he'll be on that bandwagon too.

Of course the Leafs are still Cup contenders. Any analyst worth their salt should have this opinion.

Pretty sure we’ve been waiting for the Leafs to go on a certain big win streak for the entirety of 2019. I’m sure it will totally happen eventually.

 

[RoadWarrior]

taxes in NY/California are much higher than non state tax teams like Florida and are similar to what they are in Ontario and the only team getting discounts was T-Bay which also gets ignored to deflect away from the Dube's incompetence

you're also leaving out they pay taxes for away game in the state/province they play them

as i said , Tavares isn't worth 11m never mind believing he should have been paid more than McD and every time a player signs a huge ufa deal they say they were offered more including the great David Clarkson , lol

Tavares isn't being paid more than McDavid

California has the highest taxes in the US which would partly explain why San Jose offered him huge $

 

[RoadWarrior]

Taxes is just a convenient excuse to downplay smart teams who actually use leverage. Tampa signs their players for good value because they choose not to give in to high demands of players. You think Kucherov is sitting there saying “give me less gross salary because Florida taxes are better”? No. If Tampa was weak enough to give Kucherov $13 million, he would’ve taken it.

Toronto doesn’t use their leverage over the unreasonable demands of their players. Think Marner ever would’ve left Toronto on his own accord? No. Playing for the Leafs brand, endorsement money, the “value” of being a hometown hero... that’s all leverage the Leafs failed to use, and on a RFA no less.

I agree that they caved to Matthews which led to the overpayment on Marner.

Why they caved to Matthews when they already had a #1 center in Tavares on the roster is the real question. It may have been a directive from ownership and not a choice of Shanahan.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Only the media were the ones claiming the leafs had a snowballs chance of contending for the cup.

They have a chance of contending. The problem is that their "star" players don't bring it very often.

They need more meat and potatoes grinders with some finish. More guys like Hyman, Timashov and Mikheyev and stars that care as much about the score of the game as the size of their wallets.

Boston has the right mix. The leafs do not.

Although the leafs have great pieces in place I just don't see Matthews, Marner and Nylander leading this team anywhere anymore than I did with Kessel, Bozak and JVR.

 

[robertmac43]

The good thing about the NHL is that the #1 0r 2 cup contenders frequently don't win the Cup...

 

[Menzinger]

taxes in NY/California are much higher than non state tax teams like Florida and are similar to what they are in Ontario and the only team getting discounts was T-Bay which also gets ignored to deflect away from the Dube's incompetence

you're also leaving out they pay taxes for away game in the state/province they play them

as i said , Tavares isn't worth 11m never mind believing he should have been paid more than McD and every time a player signs a huge ufa deal they say they were offered more including the great David Clarkson , lol

So to be clear, youd pass on signing Tavares because of an alleged overypayment of a few hundred thousand dollars?

 

[hotpaws]

So to be clear, youd pass on signing Tavares because of an alleged overypayment of a few hundred thousand dollars?

it's not just a few hundred grand overpayment and his salary led to Mathews/Marners wanting excessive contracts

i would have slapped 9-9,5 m on the table as well the endorsements we lined up and said this is as high as we could go an

 

[The CyNick]

Really? In January when they were in last place in the league? I don't think so.

Not in January, in October.

 

[Menzinger]

it's not just a few hundred grand overpayment and his salary led to Mathews/Marners wanting excessive contracts

i would have slapped 9-9,5 m on the table as well the endorsements we lined up and said this is as high as we could go an

And he probably wouldnt have signed for that...

 

[hullsy47]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/button-on-leafs-i-don-t-think-they-are-a-stanley-cup-contender~1809066

Pretty easy to get dismissive because it is Button, but it's hard to argue against this right now. Going back to Christmas of last season, the Leafs in their last 54 games the Leafs are just 25-21-8 which is 19th ranked in the NHL which is a 88 point pace and most likely a non-playoff team.

This year, that is slightly better pacing for 98 point season, however keep in mind the Leafs have been a historically hot team to start the seasons.

- Same lack of commitment away from the puck

- Same goaltending that lives and dies with Freddy because there is no one you can trust to win a game behind him

- Same issues and breakdowns of bad starts, blown leads, etc

I think it is a legit topic to discuss because right now, this team seems to be very overated IMO.

Button is right

 

[hfman]

you guys didn't know?

on the nights the leafs win, they are contenders

on the nights the leafs lose, they are not contenders


so for tonight.....they are contenders

 

[Nineteen67]

If Button doesn't think the Leafs are Stanley Cup contenders, I don't think Button is an above average hockey analyst.

He's just jumping on the Chicken Little bandwagon because the Leafs have started out a bit ho-hum with their somewhat difficult schedule to start the season. Don't worry, when the Leafs right the ship and go on a winning streak, he'll be on that bandwagon too.

Of course the Leafs are still Cup contenders. Any analyst worth their salt should have this opinion.

That’s what you got out of his analysis?
Outside of Leafs fans that don’t watch any hockey other than Leafs games who thinks they are contender right now.
They have a few pieces, but, my goodness, their flaws are huge barriers to overcome.

 

[hfman]

ITS THE HIFFBOARDS


NOT HFBOARDS

THE HIFFBOARDS

 

[slozo]

That’s what you got out of his analysis?
Outside of Leafs fans that don’t watch any hockey other than Leafs games who thinks they are contender right now.
They have a few pieces, but, my goodness, their flaws are huge barriers to overcome.

Button gives hot takes, not analysis.
His comments will be forgotten and irrelevant in a week.

 

[Ports]

The big money guys just do not show up playing physical high intensity fore checking teams, if your expensive core is rendered invisible you will not win hockey games plain and simple against top teams and struggle to win against mediocre teams as well. Mathews, Marner, Nylander, Barrie, Reilly, have less than 0 physicality or grit of any kind, Tavares will go into the corners and he is unafraid to be 1st on the puck, he doesn't bail, Moore, Mikheyev, Kerfs, Kappi, Timoshov play with a bit of an edge and also do not bail, but certainly are not top tier physical guys. How in the blazes does anyone expect this line up to go anywhere when at least 70 percent bail on pucks when the going gets physical with their heads on a swivel, they don't even retain a pass because they hear footsteps coming its a joke. This team is built to play Shinny not hardnose hockey and the league knows it and exposes them. If our goalie doesn't stand on his head then we generally lose.

Well said. No team has ever won anything playing the way they do. And every other team knows if they turn up the heat, the Leafs stars will melt. I blame Dubas for not injecting sum guts into the lineup. Their star players will never be tough and should have guys around to answer the bell when they are getting run.

 

[Ports]

Hes a great example of.the biggest problem with most tv sports pundits -the hot take to generate clicks views is seemingly more important than any quality analysis

But he’s not wrong.

 

[Ports]

I got to think some players think they're above engaging in physical contact, too bad because a little push back would give all the offensive players that little bit more room to work, e
If they think that they should take up cricket.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Really? I'm shocked! The thing is, most of us are in agreement with what is the biggest weakness on this team(for awhile now) and that's our defensive game. (and mostly from our defenders too).

With our forwards we know where the weaknesses are but there is a bit of an easier fix..Few of our guys may never change and play more 'in your face' game...That's fine in a way..We just need to surround them with those who can elevate their game in other ways(Moore, Timashov, Hyman, etc). Our biggest flaw right now is that we have way too many brain farts from Muzzin(just go see how many bad plays he makes..and yes i have seen the few good ones too...this shouldn't be happening to someone getting 4 mil per year). Ceci is the same maybe even worse. Strange thing is that Marincin and Holl have not looked as bad(perhaps lower ice time has a bit to do with it but still).

So what do we do? Well Dermott coming back soon should help somewhat(although if it's Holl or Marincin going out, i'm not sure that'll do much since again it's Ceci and Muzzin that have been pretty bad). I also think Sandin cannot be any worse when it comes to defensive mistakes when compared to the two above(Sandin's biggest issue is that his strength around the net area isn't good enough so he gets manhandled too often). I'd love to see Dermott in for Ceci and Sandin for one of Holl/Marincin(i thnk Holl has looked a bit better). Maybe something like..

Rielly...Dermott
Muzzin...Barrie
Sandin...Holl

It's funny how we always can pin the D problem on 1 or 2 players. Thing is, this team has the same defensive gaffes with any set that they have used back there. This problem is 3 to 4 seasons old. Change the D and the problem still remains. Seems to me there may be a deeper rooted problem than Ceci and Muzzin. Maybe it is the system. And maybe it is the unwillingness of some star forwards to half ass their D efforts.

 

[Nineteen67]

Button gives hot takes, not analysis.
His comments will be forgotten and irrelevant in a week.

Examples?

 

[Nithoniniel]

This basically boils down to the opinion that we are not contenders because we have flaws. There's only one team in the whole league without any, and they got swept in the first round last year. We're good enough to be contenders, if we fixed all our issues somehow we would likely be favorites.