Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz - Part Deux

[johnchayka89]

1st and 2nd line centers have to be able to play a "complete" game. I don't blame RT for what he did.
We just didn't have the elite talent to allow him to be an above average player.
Chicago is embracing a tank right mow. Its a good situation for Strome.

 

[MIGs Dog]

1st and 2nd line centers have to be able to play a "complete" game. I don't blame RT for what he did.
We just didn't have the elite talent to allow him to be an above average player.
Chicago is embracing a tank right mow. Its a good situation for Strome.

Chicago is 6-3-1 over the last 10. Terrible tank job.

I see them finishing much higher in the standings than us.

 

[johnchayka89]

They wouldn't even pair him with Keller. Your early post saying they did and he looked bad is 100% false. He got a few shifts here and there and looked good each time. I made a thread about it. But hey, we don't need centers that score goals right?

Your opinion doesnt qualify my opinion as false. Keller and him were paired last year and they weren't getting anything done.
If I was going to be butt hurt about losing a player, it would be about Domi.
Perlini and Strome are 2 less pansies on a team already full of pansies.

 

[johnchayka89]

Chicago is 6-3-1 over the last 10. Terrible tank job.

I see them finishing much higher in the standings than us.

Finishing higher than us in the standings isn't exactly an indicator of success.
There are 28 teams the same or better than us right now.

I think the Blackhawks coming in last would be... a little suspicious?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Finishing higher than us in the standings isn't exactly an indicator of success.

Unless we finish in 17th place. Which is possible, and would be typical Coyote.

 

[BUX7PHX]

1st and 2nd line centers have to be able to play a "complete" game. I don't blame RT for what he did.
We just didn't have the elite talent to allow him to be an above average player.
Chicago is embracing a tank right mow. Its a good situation for Strome.

This is actually something that should be said - the situation for Strome is better b/c he doesn't have as much pressure to perform on him and he has some better talent to play around. Keller is not Kane yet. I know that some will harp on the thought of not having as much pressure and call BS, b/c he is playing in Chicago, but size of the market is the only pressure that is different from here. He may have been putting some pressure on himself to do better. Our coaches may have been putting pressure on him to to perform (how dare coaches actually push a player to become complete??). He doesn't have as much of that in Chicago. Colliton knows he isn't really coaching for his job at this point.

Another thing that goes without saying - this is a quote from Conor Garland after one of the last games:

Conor Garland is on a goal-scoring spree with five tallies in his past eight games, including two vs. the New York Rangers on Sunday in his first multi-goal NHL game.

His surge in production comes after he started his NHL career with no goals, but plenty of chances, in his first seven games. The key now is to keep it going and to cement himself as an NHL player.

"I feel more comfortable every game," Garland said. "I get to see film after the game, talk to the coaches and pick up new things. It's slowing down."

When you read about how we mistreated Strome, it is almost like we did a complete 180 with Strome and didn't show him film, didn't have the coaches talk to him, etc. But for a player like Garland, he is getting the treatment that Strome should have been given? Nah. All players go through the video reviews, talking with coaches and picking up nuances. This is that 5-10% of the development path that needs to be completed once here. The players have most all of the tools to go forward - it is a matter of seeing these things on video and putting yourself through the concepts to learn from them.

Sounds very much like Garland is taking the time to learn and absorb what is going on. As he said - the game is slowing down. I will 100% place money on the idea that Strome simply didn't want to do these things. He was probably present in video review, but never took the time to absorb what was being said and work on the aspects that were seen on tape. That is why the idea of "hoping" he comes around was such a big thing. It was all out there for Strome, we just had to hope that he would start taking these facets to heart. Maybe the coaching staff beat him up a little bit, but you are the 3rd OA pick and supposed to be a player who can help out a team. If you choose not to go down the path of trying to help the team, but most importantly, yourself, then it makes sense why we dealt him.

Nobody is treated any more or less special - you put in the work and you get rewarded. Garland has. Strome has, but with another team. Attitudes like that can go.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Nobody is treated any more or less special - you put in the work and you get rewarded. Garland has. Strome has, but with another team. Attitudes like that can go.

Thing is, Garland is a fringe NHLer. He's undersized, and his skill set isn't anything anyone's going to go crazy over. He knows that, so he's going to try and outwork everyone.

Strome spent his whole career having his tires pumped, so yeah, I think there may be a grain of truth that maybe he didn't take things seriously enough until he got traded. Not that he lacked effort, but perhaps he was too comfortable given where he was drafted, what he did in Tucson, etc. - maybe he thought he could develop at his own rate. Garland has none of that comfort level - and he knows that the minute he stops scoring, it's back to the farm with him - and maybe even job hunting in the off-season.

 

[XX]

Strome spent his whole career having his tires pumped, so yeah, I think there may be a grain of truth that maybe he didn't take things seriously enough until he got traded. Not that he lacked effort, but perhaps he was too comfortable given where he was drafted, what he did in Tucson, etc. - maybe he thought he could develop at his own rate. Garland has none of that comfort level - and he knows that the minute he stops scoring, it's back to the farm with him - and maybe even job hunting in the off-season.

Fun fact: Garland is a year older than Strome

Strome was just entering territory where he could reasonably be expected to break out. The team made him one of the whipping boys and never gave him a chance. Chicago has given him a chance and been rewarded for it. It remains a stupid move to give up on your third overall pick, however 'entitled', before really seeing what he can do in a top 6 role. The Blackhawks are feeding him prime minutes and linemates to see what is there which is exactly what the Coyotes should have done. He's not even done filling out.

Chayka flinched early. Again.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Fun fact: Garland is a year older than Strome

Strome was just entering territory where he could reasonably be expected to break out. The team made him one of the whipping boys and never gave him a chance. Chicago has given him a chance and been rewarded for it. It remains a stupid move to give up on your third overall pick, however 'entitled', before really seeing what he can do in a top 6 role. The Blackhawks are feeding him prime minutes and linemates to see what is there which is exactly what the Coyotes should have done. He's not even done filling out.

Chayka flinched early. Again.

I totally agree with you on Strome. I lobbied for him to be picked at #3 and spent the entire time from that point until he was traded opining that he just needed some more time to develop than people expected, so the fact that we gave up on him so early and with such a seemingly lethargic approach to his development still rankles me.

My point was that, on the team depth chart, Strome was way, way higher than Garland. Garland knows that he's a step away from either being a productive bottom-six forward in the NHL or being a career journeyman who had better get a frequent flyer card and a Greyhound rewards program membership. I'd say that Conor Garland has way more motivation to go all-out and push every day than Strome did. Less to do with entitlement, per se, than simple performance pressure.

 

[Grimes]

Fun fact: Garland is a year older than Strome

Strome was just entering territory where he could reasonably be expected to break out. The team made him one of the whipping boys and never gave him a chance. Chicago has given him a chance and been rewarded for it. It remains a stupid move to give up on your third overall pick, however 'entitled', before really seeing what he can do in a top 6 role. The Blackhawks are feeding him prime minutes and linemates to see what is there which is exactly what the Coyotes should have done. He's not even done filling out.

Chayka flinched early. Again.

I very much agree with this over the idea that Strome is "lucky" to play with Kane or that there is not as much pressure to win in Chicago. We moved a potential top line center whose floor now looks like a 2C. This could be a blunder.

I also agree with the fact that Schmaltz fits the system and roster that Chayka is putting together than Strome. Schmaltz still has pleanty of upside, could even be a top line winger/center. The trade may work out for everyone and I dont think either team has a diminishing asset.

Edit: wow and just like that he is out for the season....ugh.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Well Strome is not putting up a "ton of goals" . He's doing okay. His ice time is up 30 percent in Chicago and he's playing with Kane from what I gather.
He's got good ice vision. He will always do better with other skilled players because he doesn't/ cant create his own shot. He's not that type of player. HE's a creator. Put him with two slugs and nothing gets done. Put Kane with two slugs and he can still ball.
And it's very true it's not easy playing with the highest skilled guys. They demand a lot and play a different game then most. They see things others don't and play at a high speed.
I'm glad Strome is finding his game out there but i'm still not sold that he's "made it".

I guess it depends what you consider a lot of goals, but he's scored 7 goals in 21 games, which is just under 30 goals if he plays at the same pace for a full season. That's pretty darn useful in my opinion.

I also agree the jury is still out, it's just that the early results for us have been so impressive.

 

[_Del_]

Edit: wow and just like that he is out for the season....ugh.​

Thanks, Grimes...
​

 

[_Del_]

Perlini and Strome are 2 less pansies on a team already full of pansies.

At best, assuming your opinion, we're one less because we got Captain Flyby back.

Sidenote: Keller was extremely good at going into corners and somehow retrieving the puck last year. We seem to have "developed" that right out of his game. When was the last time you saw he or Schmaltz do that? Has either been involved in a significant "effort" to enter a board battle lately?

 

[BUX7PHX]

Thing is, Garland is a fringe NHLer. He's undersized, and his skill set isn't anything anyone's going to go crazy over. He knows that, so he's going to try and outwork everyone.

Strome spent his whole career having his tires pumped, so yeah, I think there may be a grain of truth that maybe he didn't take things seriously enough until he got traded. Not that he lacked effort, but perhaps he was too comfortable given where he was drafted, what he did in Tucson, etc. - maybe he thought he could develop at his own rate. Garland has none of that comfort level - and he knows that the minute he stops scoring, it's back to the farm with him - and maybe even job hunting in the off-season.

That is a fair point regarding Garland and the fact that he knows he has to do that in order to stay in the league. Just wish that the same approach could be taken by players, regardless of where picked, but it happens at all levels. I would just think that Strome, a player who is also used to scoring at will, would have had the same mindset when he looks at the scoresheet and doesn't see goals or assists in his stat line. And it may be one of those things where he put in some effort, but as the results didn't occur, his effort then started to wane overall.

I also think that this may have been a reasoning behind why we passed on a player like Zadina. Maybe they had seen a little bit of the same things that were present in either Perlini, Strome, or both in Zadina regarding how willing the player was to work hard and push himself to be the best that he could be. Believe me, while not in hockey, when I have played and coached lacrosse - when that attitude is present in any sport, it is an absolute detriment to a team overall.

 

[johnchayka89]

At best, assuming your opinion, we're one less because we got Captain Flyby back.

Sidenote: Keller was extremely good at going into corners and somehow retrieving the puck last year. We seem to have "developed" that right out of his game. When was the last time you saw he or Schmaltz do that? Has either been involved in a significant "effort" to enter a board battle lately?

I agree... But that is still 1 less pansy.

Keller was very good about coming out of the corners with the puck last year. He also has been taking a lot more abuse this year.
I have not noticed engaging corner battles and shying away either. The added abuse he takes this year is the most noticeable.

 

[cobra427]

At best, assuming your opinion, we're one less because we got Captain Flyby back.

Sidenote: Keller was extremely good at going into corners and somehow retrieving the puck last year. We seem to have "developed" that right out of his game. When was the last time you saw he or Schmaltz do that? Has either been involved in a significant "effort" to enter a board battle lately?

Keller and Schmaltz are way better in the corner forechecking retrieving the puck than either Strome or Perlini and its not close. Strome is horrible, Perlini is below average, Schmaltz and Keller are average or a little above average in the corner, there is a gap. I think this is the main reason they are both gone.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I agree...Perlini was one of the worst board battle guys I've ever seen, especially for a 6'2'' built winger. Strome is gangly and was never a corner guy. One of them avoided board battles out of known preservation, the other out of sheer ignorance...I'm sure everyone knows who is who.

 

[azcanuck]

Your opinion doesnt qualify my opinion as false. Keller and him were paired last year and they weren't getting anything done.
If I was going to be butt hurt about losing a player, it would be about Domi.
Perlini and Strome are 2 less pansies on a team already full of pansies.

Problem is we got a pansy in return for those two. But at least it's one who's probably better then both of them.

 

[azcanuck]

Keller and Schmaltz are way better in the corner forechecking retrieving the puck than either Strome or Perlini and its not close. Strome is horrible, Perlini is below average, Schmaltz and Keller are average or a little above average in the corner, there is a gap. I think this is the main reason they are both gone.

Schmaltz and Keller ABOVE AVERAGE IN CORNER.
I never thought I'd see those words uttered.
They avoid the corners and are useless there.
Both these guys bring very little except offense. they have very little beyond that in their games.
And that's fine. But you cant have a team full of that. And it's nice if we got one of our skilled guys to do more. Marchand would be the other side of the spectrum in that regard.

 

[Jakey53]

Schmaltz and Keller ABOVE AVERAGE IN CORNER.
I never thought I'd see those words uttered.
They avoid the corners and are useless there.
Both these guys bring very little except offense. they have very little beyond that in their games.
And that's fine. But you cant have a team full of that. And it's nice if we got one of our skilled guys to do more. Marchand would be the other side of the spectrum in that regard.

That's why Archibald and Cousins are on this team. They are small but not afraid. Garland is playing that way now also. Chucky, who is one of our more skilled guys has played outstanding the last dozen or so games, goes to the net, into the corners etc. Overall, we are a bit soft and we have to add some muscle into the line up. Fischer and Crouse have to play with much more physicality.

 

[cobra427]

Schmaltz and Keller ABOVE AVERAGE IN CORNER.
I never thought I'd see those words uttered.
They avoid the corners and are useless there.
Both these guys bring very little except offense. they have very little beyond that in their games.
And that's fine. But you cant have a team full of that. And it's nice if we got one of our skilled guys to do more. Marchand would be the other side of the spectrum in that regard.

I said average or above average. You need to watch them play and not judge them because they are small, that seems to be your on going argument. The game is about puck movement and puck pressure now, not completing checks. Being good in the corner doesn't mean being physical, its about getting to the puck first, knowing what to do with it quickly, or disrupting the pass from a D up ice. My point is they are worlds ahead of Strome and Perlini.

 

[CC96]

...Sounds very much like Garland is taking the time to learn and absorb what is going on. As he said - the game is slowing down. I will 100% place money on the idea that Strome simply didn't want to do these things. He was probably present in video review, but never took the time to absorb what was being said and work on the aspects that were seen on tape. That is why the idea of "hoping" he comes around was such a big

Nobody is treated any more or less special - you put in the work and you get rewarded. Garland has. Strome has, but with another team. Attitudes like that can go.

Hyperbole: The Post

 

[johnchayka89]

I said average or above average. You need to watch them play and not judge them because they are small, that seems to be your on going argument. The game is about puck movement and puck pressure now, not completing checks. Being good in the corner doesn't mean being physical, its about getting to the puck first, knowing what to do with it quickly, or disrupting the pass from a D up ice. My point is they are worlds ahead of Strome and Perlini.

My perception is that Keller is more likely to come out with the puck. He just does it somehow... When he does loose the battle, it isnt a clean win for the opponent. But true, last year he was more active in the corners. Could that be coaching instruction?
He is great at taking away the puck as well. I would say that is ability is way above average and he will only get better.
Got to give this kid credit... He is small and young and is by far the most naturally talented player on the team.

 

[Sinurgy]

Got to give this kid credit... He is small and young and is by far the most naturally talented player on the team.

He definitely deserves credit but it also highlights how badly AZ has f***ed up their rebuild.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Hyperbole: The Post

Again, why else would he basically start doing all of the things that we wanted him to do here and started to do in Chicago?

Every player is given an opportunity. The fact is that a player like Garland showed that want moreso than Strome did. If Strome was unhappy with how the coaching staff was using him, then ask them what he can do to put himself in that position to earn ice time. If Tocchet, Chayka, and other coaches didn't give him meaningful ways to improve, then yes, it is all on the coach and GM, and Strome has every right to ask out. But I have a hard time believing that a coaching staff and the higher-ups would do that, for several reasons:

#1 That would be apparent to other members of the team and if a coach treated a player with a good attitude and the skill to help the team in a poor manner - more than just Strome would be asking to be traded.
#2 The coaches would then also treat everyone in a very similar fashion. Why would you single out one player with no additional ways to help him succeed and then turn around and become coach of the year to others? Coaches have to deal with 20-30 different players during the year. They will tell you what mistakes you are making and reinforce positively when good things are done.
#3 If a player doesn't understand why they are being treated a certain way, then they can ask those same resources. It is humbling to be told the same thing by a coach and a GM. If the coaching staff and GM are giving you very different information (i.e. Strome goes to Tocchet and Tocchet says that he needs to work on board work. Strome then goes to Chayka and is told that his board work is fine, but to work on driving the net. If that is the case, then yes, we are stringing him along). I think that the reality is that Strome was told the same thing by coach and GM and he simply didn't believe it. That's not being mistreated b/c he is being given the same message, which follows the methodology that Chayka wanted - absolute transparency between GM, coaches, and players.

Much like the border debate, there are two sides that needed to come together, but one side is being petulant about it. We saw it with Turris. While Strome didn't quite have the same vocal presence about his unhappiness that Turris had, it still doesn't change the fact that there was a lack of effort on the player's side.