Coyotes still owe rent for 2019/2020 UPD - Post #217 (Reconciled)

[TheLegend]

There are no links. Most of my private material is on paper. It’s an old medium that we used to employ to store information before you were born.

I have copies of practically everything issued by Maricopa’s Baum during 2009 and a lot of the collateral precedents, both set down from NHL hearings and a few other businesses. It makes for a few cartons of stuff so you might want to refine what you really need. Don’t be too long in deciding; this is a time limited offer.

I’ve set up a private conversation. Go there and you’ll find a phone number for the amazing Mrs. Moose. Call her and she can FedEx or make other arrangements to get the stuff to you.

Why do I get this vision of Moose's filing cabinet??.

 

[Mightygoose]

I believe the city has an election on November 3. I wonder if Meruelo is waiting to see if there is a changing of the guard or enough of one to make a difference.

How many on council are left that votes yes to amending the lease in 2015?

 

[TheLegend]

Why does the City want the Coyotes anyway if it’s costing them millions?

If you factor in the some 500,000+ visitors (and subsequent sales tax revenues to the city) the team itself brings to them each year is it really costing them??? Which is the other side of the equation here. No fans coming in means the city is also affected so they have their own issue here with all events at the arena being cancelled.

 

[TheLegend]

I believe the city has an election on November 3. I wonder if Meruelo is waiting to see if there is a changing of the guard or enough of one to make a difference.

How many on council are left that votes yes to amending the lease in 2015?

Glendale already had their election. No changes.

 

[Stumbledore]

Why do I get this vision of Moose's filing cabinet??.

Don't I wish!

It would sure beat cartons stacked haphazardly and filling up the basement guest suite.

 

[Stumbledore]

I would redefine that as "bad deal under the current climate of the pandemic" issue. Most NHL teams are facing the possibility of playing in arenas this coming winter with no fans, yet will be looking at having to pay for arenas is if they were, due to how their leases are constructed. FAAK the Coyotes may be looking to reduce their rent.

Bolded seems to have been the motto of a succession of Coyotes owners.

 

[Leafmealone11]

They are broke, so they need to "re-negoiate" deals that are likely already below market.

That city has paid a lot of money and bills for the NHL over the years, they can try to get a better lease but ripping of tax payers and refusing to pay what they owe must have Bettman and the other owners pissed right off. The NHL needs pubic funding everywhere the last thing they want is to be known as scammer pieces of poo.

 

[Leafmealone11]

It was also reported the NBA tried to change the deal after an agreement was reached. And..... that all occurred 9 years ago.

Since then he has invested in some risky already failed business adventures and been sued for not paying his bills. I’m not sure how much cash he has laying around but when your a new owner and payments are late and/or don’t show up at all some flags should be raised

 

[_Del_]

Why does the City want the Coyotes anyway if it’s costing them millions?

The city built an arena and are making payments on it. That was their decision. Probably a bad one. They still have to pay it down whether the Coyotes are there or not.
If I had to choose between paying down the arena with no events and no tenant, or paying down the arena with no events and a heavily retouched temporary arrangement with my only tenant in the current circumstances, I know which way I'd vote.
Given what's happening to retail, you can't even turn it into a mall or swap meet.

If I owned a mortgage on a house that I lease out in the winter to a tenant and run like a AirBNB in the summer, I know my odds of booking short term vacation rentals are pretty low right now. If my semi-permanent leasee wants/needs reasonable accommodation, I'd be open to doing that. Sure, I can always evict him, but I still have a mortgage to pay and I don't have anyone else interested in leasing a big block of my vacancies. Something is better than nothing.

I don't think the Coyotes have a ton of leverage. Unless the NHL goes no - or low-fans the whole season. If it's no fans, the Coyotes can rent ice pretty literally anywhere. They could play in Tucson at the TCC. Either way, there's little to lose by addressing the current economic environment with the arena management company.

 

[Pandemonia]

There are no links. Most of my private material is on paper. It’s an old medium that we used to employ to store information before you were born.

I have copies of practically everything issued by Maricopa’s Baum during 2009 and a lot of the collateral precedents, both set down from NHL hearings and a few other businesses. It makes for a few cartons of stuff so you might want to refine what you really need. Don’t be too long in deciding; this is a time limited offer.

I’ve set up a private conversation. Go there and you’ll find a phone number for the amazing Mrs. Moose. Call her and she can FedEx or make other arrangements to get the stuff to you.

Thanks a ton! I'll call her tonite. Your a very generous tall Moose!

 

[TheLegend]

Since then he has invested in some risky already failed business adventures and been sued for not paying his bills. I’m not sure how much cash he has laying around but when your a new owner and payments are late and/or don’t show up at all some flags should be raised

What other bills??

You mean the lawsuit from the group he bought the SLS Vegas from because he hadn't changed the name back to The Sahara for a few months?? Same group who were sued themselves by a group of Chinese investors not two years earlier for failing to provide green cards??

Please indulge us as to all these terrible things Meruelo has done.

 

[Leafmealone11]

What other bills??

You mean the lawsuit from the group he bought the SLS Vegas from because he hadn't changed the name back to The Sahara for a few months?? Same group who were sued themselves by a group of Chinese investors not two years earlier for failing to provide green cards??

Please indulge us as to all these terrible things Meruelo has done.

Did he get sued for not paying? I’m sorry you need to defend this fellow. Good for you?
Being sued is what it Is, two wrongs don’t make a right so I’m not sure why anyone cares about Chinese dudes doing there thing with some other group

 

[93LEAFS]

The city built an arena and are making payments on it. That was their decision. Probably a bad one. They still have to pay it down whether the Coyotes are there or not.
If I had to choose between paying down the arena with no events and no tenant, or paying down the arena with no events and a heavily retouched temporary arrangement with my only tenant in the current circumstances, I know which way I'd vote.
Given what's happening to retail, you can't even turn it into a mall or swap meet.

If I owned a mortgage on a house that I lease out in the winter to a tenant and run like a AirBNB in the summer, I know my odds of booking short term vacation rentals are pretty low right now. If my semi-permanent leasee wants/needs reasonable accommodation, I'd be open to doing that. Sure, I can always evict him, but I still have a mortgage to pay and I don't have anyone else interested in leasing a big block of my vacancies. Something is better than nothing.

I don't think the Coyotes have a ton of leverage. Unless the NHL goes no - or low-fans the whole season. If it's no fans, the Coyotes can rent ice pretty literally anywhere. They could play in Tucson at the TCC. Either way, there's little to lose by addressing the current economic environment with the arena management company.

Firstly, the NHLPA will throw a hissy fit over playing in any arena that isn't NHL standards. So, no, they can't play anywhere. That's before even getting into ice-quality and the ice-plant. Teams hated the Barclay's Center because the piping was only designed to host things like Disney on Ice, and not maintain the quality NHLers expect.

Two, whatever arena they will use, they will need to pay for certain upgrades that are mandatory for NHL arena's such as the TV wiring and setting up the aspects required for NHL's replay review. Just look at the uphill battle it was for the Blue Jays to play in Buffalo this year in regards to adjustments. Which only became the choice after two other MLB cities decided they wouldn't let the Jays play in their cities (Baltimore and Pittsburgh), and required a delay to upgrade the lightning to MLB quality.

So, Glendale has a bit more leverage than you are implying.

 

[_Del_]

Teams hated the Barclay's Center

But they still played there as a temporary answer.

whatever arena they will use, they will need to pay for certain upgrades that are mandatory for NHL arena's such as the TV wiring and setting up the aspects required for NHL's replay review

Which is still attractive if the cost is less than the lease with no gate revenue. While free upgrades are also attractive to potential venues.

I don't think it comes to that because I think Glendale recognizes its own best interests, and as I said the Coyotes don't "have a ton of leverage".

 

[93LEAFS]

But they still played there as a temporary answer.


Which is still attractive if the cost is less than the lease with no gate revenue. While free upgrades are also attractive to potential venues.

I don't think it comes to that because I think Glendale recognizes its own best interests, and as I said the Coyotes don't "have a ton of leverage".

Do you really think the NHLPA is going to accept playing in a rec league arena? You are talking 100's of thousands of dollars in upgrades. They won't play in places that don't have NHL quality dressing rooms or an NHL quality ice machine. That would need to be done by January 1st or so.

To even make this a viable option, they need to set up proper broadcasting spots for film crews, they need to set up wiring to directly send broadcast replays and blue-line camera's directly to NHL headquarters, get an NHL quality ice-plant, and upgrade the dressing rooms. To do the in a 3 month timeline is going to cost a significant amount of money.

 

[_Del_]

Do you really think the NHLPA is going to accept playing in a rec league arena?

No, and you'd have to be completely obtuse to get that from my comment...

 

[93LEAFS]

No, and you'd have to be completely obtuse to get that from my comment...

Okay, so what arena's in the Phoenix CSA actually meet NHL standards? There seems to be one. And, you need to upgrade it in 3 months, which may not even be viable.

 

[_Del_]

I don't think these are normal times, and I think everyone is going to be looking at "good enough" options. I don't think it's crazy that another temporary option may cost less than than AEG lease when you consider no revenue. I also think the league will bend over backwards to accommodate teams when necessary under the circumstances.
Which again, isn't a prediction that they end up doing that.

 

[MNNumbers]

I'm trying to figure out how playing anywhere else is going to help the franchise long term. Basically, you don't have a GRA to return to after next year. With no assured appearance of a new arena, you would be shooting yourself in the foot to leave GRA for 20-21, wouldn't you?

 

[Fairview]

I don't think these are normal times, and I think everyone is going to be looking at "good enough" options. I don't think it's crazy that another temporary option may cost less than than AEG lease when you consider no revenue. I also think the league will bend over backwards to accommodate teams when necessary under the circumstances.
Which again, isn't a prediction that they end up doing that.

If the team chooses to leave GRA for this season because of a dispute over payment of the lease, where do you think the team will play the following season(s) , when things get back to normal?

 

[_Del_]

They either kiss and make up while they wait for a permanent solution, or Houston.
Both sides have a reason to make something work.

 

[_Del_]

Basically, you don't have a GRA to return to after next year

You'd have the year to figure out a mutually beneficial arrangement.

 

[MNNumbers]

You'd have the year to figure out a mutually beneficial arrangement.

But that's the point. The renewal point for the GRA for the Coyotes is Jan 1. If they choose not to renew, and I am COG, I am not sure I would wish to negotiate with the Coyotes after they stay away a year. I don't think the Coyotes are in a position to take that risk.

Likewise, I don't think that the Coyotes can expect a better deal anywhere else in the Valley for 500K, which is the rent they pay for playing at GRA.

And, in a business that is usually measured in millions, that 500K that they use for rent on the GRA is a minor amount. It's not costing them much to play there.

 

[TheLegend]

Did he get sued for not paying? I’m sorry you need to defend this fellow. Good for you?
Being sued is what it Is, two wrongs don’t make a right so I’m not sure why anyone cares about Chinese dudes doing there thing with some other group

Because if you had bothered to look beyond the headlines.... part of Meruelo’s deal to purchase the SLS Las Vegas is to reimburse those Chinese dudes by 2023.

Lawsuits are a common thing when you have someone coming in to snap up a distressed property as SLS Las Vegas was.

BTW.... I don’t need to defend Meruelo. I asked you expand on your blanket accusation that Meruelo is some sort of perennial dead beat who‘s never paid his debts.

At this point I have to presume you can’t.

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't think these are normal times, and I think everyone is going to be looking at "good enough" options. I don't think it's crazy that another temporary option may cost less than than AEG lease when you consider no revenue. I also think the league will bend over backwards to accommodate teams when necessary under the circumstances.
Which again, isn't a prediction that they end up doing that.

League? Maybe. But players? Why do they have interest in accommodating a team that probably drags down the cap?