Coyotes still owe rent for 2019/2020 UPD - Post #217 (Reconciled)

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Pandemonia

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Now that Judge Baum has retired, I wonder who's the next in line to draw the potential bankruptcy case?

Speaking of bankruptcies, does anyone have the creditors from the Coyotes court time? Moyes claimed he was owed over a hundred million but there was a ton of others, including a bunch of TV stations supposedly. Can anyone help me out?
 

Leafmealone11

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Completely agree with your bolded statement above. Also re: the methodology (thanks for including btw), "In cases where an individual owns a stake in a private company that accounts for 20% or more of his or her net worth (which is obviously Alex Meruelo), the value of the company will be adjusted according to an industry- or region-specific market index provided by our partners at FactSet Research Systems when available."

To me that says Forbes is doing the best they can to update private company values (or at least, doing something) even though I'm 100% with you that a hard read on Meruelo's finances will be impossible.

But... don't you think it's odd that Meruelo says he's worth $2B and Forbes doesn't even think he's worth half that? You'd have to think Alex Meruelo is on Forbes' radar given he owns a big 4 professional sports team. Honestly I'd think he would've been noticed back in 2011 when he was in talks to buy the Altanta Hawks.

Regardless of either, whether Meruelo is worth $2B or $1B (or less) what's more important is his cash position / how liquid he is. If he's doing things like making late bonus payments and renegotiating 500K or $3m leases I assume his cash is really tight which does not bode well for the franchise -- a few million here and there should be chump change to anyone rich enough to buy a hockey team

When he tried to buy the hawks It was reported the deal stalled out because the NBA was concerned he didn’t have enough money to buy and run a team. Perhaps they were right
 

TheLegend

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What the hell is that? I'd like to get the "unparaphrased" version



It was during a Zoom press conference today for the new GM. Supposed to be available later.
But all this recent rent payments stuff got Glendale to put the "talk about the arena" item back on their executive session agenda. :popcorn:
 

TheLegend

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When he tried to buy the hawks It was reported the deal stalled out because the NBA was concerned he didn’t have enough money to buy and run a team. Perhaps they were right

It was also reported the NBA tried to change the deal after an agreement was reached. And..... that all occurred 9 years ago.
 

Stumbledore

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Thanks little moose! Much obliged!

Ahem...

The silver moose is six foot three. The amazing Mrs. Moose is six foot one. Neither of us is little.

If you're mining bankruptcies and poking around in voluntary petitions, the Wayback Machine is a gold mine but a real nightmare to try and navigate. If you start with the county court and then locate the presiding judge rather than the debtor’s name, you can usually work your way backward. Hence the name.
 
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Pandemonia

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Ahem...

The silver moose is six foot three. The amazing Mrs. Moose is six foot one. Neither of us is little.

If you're mining bankruptcies and poking around in voluntary petitions, the Wayback Machine is a gold mine but a real nightmare to try and navigate. If you start with the county court and then locate the presiding judge rather than the debtor’s name, you can usually work your way backward. Hence the name.

Okay then, Tall Moose, thanks again!

So why is your wife always called amazing. Cause of her height or maybe points as a basketball player?

I tried the Wayback a bunch of times and its impossible. Kinda like reading thru the mega thread with all the Goldwater and cupcakes and old dues at the library getting petitions and the weird old mayor and lispy Logan at city hall.

Still gotta do the Predators in 2008 and the Senators and sabres from the same week in 2003.
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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Sorry, I'm confused as to your point. I've written, negotiated, and read hundreds of partnerships in my day and all of them are limited. It's a term expressing debt liability with regards to the quantum of investment.

For clarity, the Winnipeg Jets are one property of 78 assets held by True North Sports and Entertainment. David Thompson owns Osmington Incorporated. Osmington is liable for up to 18% of TNSE real property debt.

For greater clarity, as president of Megill-Stephenson holding company, Mark Chipman bought out the remaining partners in TNSE. He also owns the Birchwood Group of car dealerships and the Longboat Development Corporation real estate group. In 2018, his net worth was listed as $515 million.

I've posted repeatedly in many threads about the issue of backing up claims and cite authorities and posters who deny any and all evidence, so I personally don't care what you want to believe or reject. The point can be stressed, however, that any cash flow issues will have little effect on "diluting" Mark Chipman.

You’re right, except for general partnerships.

As for declared net worth, this whole thread illustrates how little it’s based in reality.

If enterprise value is 10x net revenue, TNSE was generating $50mm CDN. In a service industry/CRE vehicle that is down 60%(being generous) what’s that net revenue now? Zero?

Vehicle sales are 60% of what they were year prior. I’m sure vehicle servicing has been put off. How much cash are the dealership group generating?
 
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Major4Boarding

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It was during a Zoom press conference today for the new GM. Supposed to be available later.
But all this recent rent payments stuff got Glendale to put the "talk about the arena" item back on their executive session agenda. :popcorn:

Oh. God.

Let fire unto the Forge. It cometh again.

Seriously though, I’d like the entire context before ringing the village bell.
 
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TheLegend

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Oh. God.

Let fire unto the Forge. It cometh again.

Seriously though, I’d like the entire context before ringing the village bell.

Me too...

Press conference is available now (below).... most of it is around Bill Armstrong but Xavier Gutierrez did step in to comment on the situation (a little past the 14:00 mark) with late payments and such. Isn't much to work with because he was doing more PR gesturing than anything. But everyone can have their own take on it.

 
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robertocarlos

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Gary needs a big cardboard sign in his office. "You must have $3 billion to ride the NHL roller-coaster".
 

PainForShane

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When he tried to buy the hawks It was reported the deal stalled out because the NBA was concerned he didn’t have enough money to buy and run a team. Perhaps they were right

Right. Yes it was 9 years ago but an adult trying to live above his means will probably keep trying to live above his means, don't you think?. I mean, obviously Meruelo is a rich guy, but it takes a VERY rich guy to own / successfully run a big 4 sports team.

Did some googling found some articles:
Sources: Sale of Hawks to Meruelo in jeopardy

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/nba/deal-to-sell-nba-s-hawks-to-meruelo-falls-through-1.1066827

Thanks @Leafmealone11 for the assist -- had no idea about the reason for the NBA deal falling apart
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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Right. Yes it was 9 years ago but an adult trying to live above his means will probably keep trying to live above his means, don't you think?. I mean, obviously Meruelo is a rich guy, but it takes a VERY rich guy to own / successfully run a big 4 sports team.

Apparently not obvious.

He got in at the worst possible time(nothing new for the Coyotes) but I put this more on the league than Meruelo.
 

Ernie

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He's clearly got a cash flow problem which is why he's trying to pay everyone two weeks late. If you look at his entertainment holdings, especially the casinos, that should not be surprising. He's getting nailed from all sides. Mostly just bad luck really.

That said as long as he keeps playing ball with the league and there are no more surprises I'm sure Bettman will find a way to make him whole.

Needs to stop the unforced errors like the whole Chayka fiasco tho.
 

Summer Rose

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He's clearly got a cash flow problem which is why he's trying to pay everyone two weeks late. If you look at his entertainment holdings, especially the casinos, that should not be surprising. He's getting nailed from all sides. Mostly just bad luck really.

That said as long as he keeps playing ball with the league and there are no more surprises I'm sure Bettman will find a way to make him whole.

Needs to stop the unforced errors like the whole Chayka fiasco tho.

Story of the entire franchise in a nutshell.
 

Stumbledore

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Okay then, Tall Moose, thanks again!

So why is your wife always called amazing. Cause of her height or maybe points as a basketball player?

I tried the Wayback a bunch of times and its impossible. Kinda like reading thru the mega thread with all the Goldwater and cupcakes and old dues at the library getting petitions and the weird old mayor and lispy Logan at city hall.

Still gotta do the Predators in 2008 and the Senators and sabres from the same week in 2003.

Amazing because of her life experiences, but she's never played basketball.

She became a teenaged swimsuit model in her damp native Britain because the shoots were mostly done in North Africa. She was a tour guide in Greece for 8 months, worked as a stripper in Italy for 5 months, and got her pilot’s licence in Spain all by the age of 20. She also got her chopper certification and mechanic’s papers and worked on the RAF Westlands fleet in Gütersloh, occasionally making a few off-book flights. She also worked on a few RAF officers and was asked to leave Germany quickly, ending up in Toronto and entering law school, passing her bar exams by age 30. I call that pretty amazing, no?

But back to hockey business. I do have files on all the “recent” bankruptcies, including the 1995 Kings and the 1998 Penguins, but depending upon what you’re researching you might be confusing apples and oranges. Quick notes:

Kings (Bruce McNall) sold ¾ of his team to Sudikoff to fend off fraud investigations, then later put his last quarter into bankruptcy. Sudikoff failed about a year later and filed bankruptcy so you’ll find most of your stuff in his name. McNall got jail time.
Penguins (Howard Baldwin) filed for Chapter 11 because he couldn’t pay his players so one of them (Lemieux) bought the team as an exposed creditor. But if you’re going through court filings, look for Ron Burkle as the buyer.
Senators (Rod Bryden) ran up debt and filed at Christmas, 2002 and Eugene Melnyk bought him out in May, 2003. Fairly straightforward.
Sabres (John Rigas) was indicted on fraud charges and the NHL took over the team and sold it while Rigas got 15 federal years. Purchaser was Tom Golisano. You'll also find a trove of gruesome material under Adelphia Communications which Rigas used as his private laundry.

If any of that is wrong, there's lots of knowledgeable posters on here who will be eager to correct my errors. Especially those that can spell Thomson correctly.

And finally, if you're willing to do a lot of digging, you're welcome to my own stuff, excluding work product and privileged, of course.
 
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Stumbledore

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You’re right, except for general partnerships.

As for declared net worth, this whole thread illustrates how little it’s based in reality.

If enterprise value is 10x net revenue, TNSE was generating $50mm CDN. In a service industry/CRE vehicle that is down 60%(being generous) what’s that net revenue now? Zero?

Vehicle sales are 60% of what they were year prior. I’m sure vehicle servicing has been put off. How much cash are the dealership group generating?

Always ready to engage in pointless contradiction: https://www.wheels.ca/news/july-canada-car-sales-almost-back-to-last-years-levels/

(Plus you lost all credibility with me when you misspelled Thomson's name...)
 
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Pandemonia

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If any of that is wrong, there's lots of knowledgeable posters on here who will be eager to correct my errors. Especially those that can spell Thomson correctly.

And finally, if you're willing to do a lot of digging, you're welcome to my own stuff, excluding work product and privileged, of course.

Great! Thx oh tall one. If you have any links to all your own stuff I’m never forget your height forever.
 

Stumbledore

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Great! Thx oh tall one. If you have any links to all your own stuff I’m never forget your height forever.

There are no links. Most of my private material is on paper. It’s an old medium that we used to employ to store information before you were born.

I have copies of practically everything issued by Maricopa’s Baum during 2009 and a lot of the collateral precedents, both set down from NHL hearings and a few other businesses. It makes for a few cartons of stuff so you might want to refine what you really need. Don’t be too long in deciding; this is a time limited offer.

I’ve set up a private conversation. Go there and you’ll find a phone number for the amazing Mrs. Moose. Call her and she can FedEx or make other arrangements to get the stuff to you.
 

TheLegend

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It's not a money issue, it's a bad deal issue.

I would redefine that as "bad deal under the current climate of the pandemic" issue.

Most NHL teams are facing the possibility of playing in arenas this coming winter with no fans, yet will be looking at having to pay for arenas is if they were, due to how their leases are constructed. FAAK the Coyotes may be looking to reduce their rent and associated costs some to reflect this. IMO they aren't really in a position to do much of anything else since they can't simply go downtown (it would be worse). Even if they had a new arena underway they still need GRA for at least two more years (they've acknowledged this already).

I simply can't see them playing hardball with the city at this point. But I could be wrong too. ;)
 
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Fatass

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I would redefine that as "bad deal under the current climate of the pandemic" issue.

Most NHL teams are facing the possibility of playing in arenas this coming winter with no fans, yet will be looking at having to pay for arenas is if they were, due to how their leases are constructed. FAAK the Coyotes may be looking to reduce their rent and associated costs some to reflect this. IMO they aren't really in a position to do much of anything else since they can't simply go downtown (it would be worse). Even if they had a new arena underway they still need GRA for at least two more years (they've acknowledged this already).

I simply can't see them playing hardball with the city at this point. But I could be wrong too. ;)
Why does the City want the Coyotes anyway if it’s costing them millions?
 
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