Speculation: Coyotes pursuing trade for Matthews

[jrgtml67]

Its sad to see as well 45.5% of you would do what old management would possibly have. Lose the chance to draft an elite center that will likely have magic with Marner and become our Toews Kane..even if not we as fans have died to draft 1st remember last yrs screwy tank and many said we couldnt do that right..well look now we did we had the balls fall 13 being the winning number our last captain that mattered passing the torch to possibly matthews and you people want or would trade that now after everything shame on you...stop thinking like the yrs of bad management no rushing no quick fixes we have our own prospects we have rielly..zaits maybe huge carrick looks awesome lets enjoy our good fortune and great management staff since we have had so many yrs of hell

 

[ITM]

The only reasonable thing to do is listen to offers, good, bad, ugly and without emotion, plod along as though every pick in hand will be exercised in this draft. That's the mature, logical thing to do. It's also incumbent upon every Leafs fan enamoured with trading that pick to contemplate the club in the short and long term.

In the short term, the top six should have theses players to select from: Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, James Van Reimsdyk, Nazem Kadri, Leo Komarov, Nikita Shoshnikov, Tyler Bozak, Milan Michalek...That's not a bad top 9 to boot.

Taking Edmonton as a model and incorporating their year over year performance, let's allow for a modest increase in standings. We finish 26th-28th...and are provided another opportunity at a top pick and thus another likely NHL star.

I think another element of taking an asset like Matthews is that the absence of support that teams like Edmonton and Toronto enjoy is the addition of another high pick the next year.

I think UNLIKE Edmonton, we're in a position where Hunter can mine quality at any round, with any pick in a way most franchises can't and moreover our management seems better equipped to assemble supplementary pieces even as we build - the right way.

Taking Matthews won't be a mistake. There isn't a reasonable scenario that will take place this season in which taking Matthews would be a mistake. Think of if this way...If there was a club willing to pay a Lindros like haul, that club believes trading a cache of elite assets isn't a mistake for the right to draft Matthews.

And remember, Lindros and the Flyers also got to the Cup Final. Lindros won awards, including the Hart. For Philadelphia, trading for Lindros wasn't a mistake. And certainly selecting Lindros wasn't considered a mistake by Quebec at the podium.

There's absolutely no cause for concern in keeping the number one pick and selecting Auston Matthews with it.

As a matter of principal, it should be Toronto selecting Auston Matthews with the first overall pick.

Lamoriello can still yield a monstrous haul if desired, if available...But the first overall belongs to Toronto. And the Toronto Maple Leafs should make the first act of the 100 year celebration one that reflects the central virtues of courage and honour as synonymous with the club, reflected in it's decision to unveil a new sweater and crest.

Let's - in all seriousness - let fear and timidity die with the old crest.

Let the first act of the next century of Leafs hockey be bold, fearless and forward looking. If for any other reason, let's announce the next century of Leafs hockey with honour and courage appropriate to the past we forgot and let the rest of the league envy our day and our future.

 

[Craig Button]

Its sad to see as well 45.5% of you would do what old management would possibly have. Lose the chance to draft an elite center that will likely have magic with Marner and become our Toews Kane..even if not we as fans have died to draft 1st remember last yrs screwy tank and many said we couldnt do that right..well look now we did we had the balls fall 13 being the winning number our last captain that mattered passing the torch to possibly matthews and you people want or would trade that now after everything shame on you...stop thinking like the yrs of bad management no rushing no quick fixes we have our own prospects we have rielly..zaits maybe huge carrick looks awesome lets enjoy our good fortune and great management staff since we have had so many yrs of hell

???

Yes 105 28.77%

 

[RoadWarrior]

People don't have a fear of drafting Mathews. I think the concern that Mathews doesn't want to play in Toronto has some validity especially in light of what has happened with another American Phil Kessel who basically quit on the team.

Even if you don't think he wants to play here you draft him anyway and start fielding offers because Mathews could fetch a kings ransom in quality players and prospects from an American team OR you take Laine. Swedes and Finns have never had a problem playing in Canada.

 

[Craig Button]

There's nothing wrong with trading away our 1st pick overall.
However, it will have to be an over payment. A fair deal won't due.

Let's look at Quebec in the early 90's. Their Sundin deal was a Failure. Traded for Clark for leadership. Leadership???? over Sakic? Clark leadership only lasted a shortened season. We have to thank Gilmour for handing Clark a career season prior to the Sundin trade.

But, The Lindros deal was a success. It was an over payment.

 

[Craig Button]

People don't have a fear of drafting Mathews. I think the concern that Mathews doesn't want to play in Toronto has some validity especially in light of what has happened with another American Phil Kessel who basically quit on the team.

Even if you don't think he wants to play here you draft him anyway and start fielding offers because Mathews could fetch a kings ransom in quality players and prospects from an American team OR you take Laine. Swedes and Finns have never had a problem playing in Canada.

Not pointing my finger at you.

But, whoever feels this way is a complete idiot.

Imagine teams not drafting Canadian players because of Alexandre Daigle.

 

[SprDaVE]

There's nothing wrong with trading away our 1st pick overall.
However, it will have to be an over payment. A fair deal won't due.

Let's look at Quebec in the early 90's. Their Sundin deal was a Failure. Traded for Clark for leadership. Leadership???? over Sakic? Clark leadership only lasted a shortened season. We have to thank Gilmour for handing Clark a career season prior to the Sundin trade.

But, The Lindros deal was a success. It was an over payment.

It's never done for a reason. I can't remember the last time it happened pre-pick either.

 

[Craig Button]

It's never done for a reason. I can't remember the last time it happened pre-pick either.

I can't remember the last time either.
But what do you mean it's never done for a reason?

 

[WilliamNylander]

Not pointing my finger at you.

But, whoever feels this way is a complete idiot.

Imagine teams not drafting Canadian players because of Alexandre Daigle.

Yep.

That is probably the dumbest argument (can we even call it that?) on the entire boards. Not sure if anyone posting that stuff is serious or just trying to get a reaction here.

A kid whos moved around his whole life to play hockey is not going to want to play hockey in the biggest market in the world...

 

[Stephen]

It's never done for a reason. I can't remember the last time it happened pre-pick either.

The last couple of times it happened was with the Fleury pick in 2003 and back in 1999 during the Sedin/Burke/Stefan. Both times crazy Rick Dudley was involved. And Rick Dudley doesn't have a GM job, as he's an assistant in Montreal now.

 

[mallory67]

Can we please stop discussing the Lindross deal like its a comparable situation?

Lindross had a big attitude problem with Quebec and ANNOUNCED he did not want to play there BEFORE the draft. This is not 1992 and Matthews is not Lindross.

 

[Mess]

The last couple of times it happened was with the Fleury pick in 2003 and back in 1999 during the Sedin/Burke/Stefan. Both times crazy Rick Dudley was involved. And Rick Dudley doesn't have a GM job, as he's an assistant in Montreal now.

It seldom happens, and it shouldn't this year either but that is due mainly to the fact the asking price is too high that nobody is willing to pay it, as it would cripple their team to do so.

GMs listen to offers all the time I'm sure they're simply not good enough to force the trade of the pick to happen. Just last year the Leafs offered Columbus to move up from #8 to #4 pick by asking for 3X 2nd round picks to do so. So the magnitude of Arizona moving from #7 to #1 would be enormous and outrages that unless your a rookie GM would never happen.

I made the point earlier in the thread in that if it hypothetically costs the Leafs Reilly + Nylander + 4OA (Marner) + 24th + even more possibly would the Leafs have made that offer for McDavid predraft?.

So Arizona as much as they would love to get the home town boy Matthews to build around they can't cripple their organization to do so either in the process.

 

[mallory67]

People don't have a fear of drafting Mathews. I think the concern that Mathews doesn't want to play in Toronto has some validity especially in light of what has happened with another American Phil Kessel who basically quit on the team.

Even if you don't think he wants to play here you draft him anyway and start fielding offers because Mathews could fetch a kings ransom in quality players and prospects from an American team OR you take Laine. Swedes and Finns have never had a problem playing in Canada.

There is 0 (ZERO) evidence that Matthews does not want to play in Toronto. ZERO.

Matthews is a humble guy so he isn't going to YAP all day long about Toronto ... because that would mean he ASSUMES he is going to go #1 overall. He is in a delicate position, with some people talking up Laine. So Matthews has to keep some what quiet.

He would look like an ass in Winterpeg if Toronto took Laine ...
Matthews doing and saying all the right things.

 

[crump]

Typical Leaf fan self loathing. "We don't deserve the 1st overall" better trade it to get some assets back.

 

[Mess]

People don't have a fear of drafting Mathews. I think the concern that Mathews doesn't want to play in Toronto has some validity especially in light of what has happened with another American Phil Kessel who basically quit on the team.

Even if you don't think he wants to play here you draft him anyway and start fielding offers because Mathews could fetch a kings ransom in quality players and prospects from an American team OR you take Laine. Swedes and Finns have never had a problem playing in Canada.

The CBA gives the drafting team a players rights for 7 years of service or age 27 which ever comes first.

Any concern about Matthews wouldn't be front loaded about not wanting to play in Toronto, it would be about not wanting to stay in Toronto once he has fulfilled his commitment and obligation to the team.

This would be our potential Stamkos situation (with Matthews) where a 26 year old is about to hit the UFA market and going home a strong possibility behind his motivation. The fans that want Stamkos to return home this year could see the shoe on the other foot in 7 years when Matthews is in a similar position to leave and Leafs couldn't stop him from doing so once he has earned free agency status.

But that is true for any pick that wants to play on a different team then the one that drafted him. McDavid is 6 years from becoming a UFA and returning home at that time. It doesn't prevent teams from still taking the best players at draft time.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The CBA gives the drafting team a players rights for 7 years of service or age 27 which ever comes first.

Any concern about Matthews wouldn't be front loaded about not wanting to play in Toronto, it would be about not wanting to stay in Toronto once he has fulfilled his commitment and obligation to the team.

This would be our potential Stamkos situation (with Matthews) where a 26 year old is about to hit the UFA market and going home a strong possibility behind his motivation. The fans that want Stamkos to return home this year could see the shoe on the other foot in 7 years when Matthews is in a similar position to leave and Leafs couldn't stop him from doing so once he has earned free agency status.

But that is true for any pick that wants to play on a different team then the one that drafted him. McDavid is 6 years from becoming a UFA and returning home at that time. It doesn't prevent teams from still taking the best players at draft time.

How many Toronto born players signed with Toronto the first chance they had? None. I think that Matthews will be a Leaf for a long time, unless he busts. How many players go back to sign with thier home towns? Did Toews go sign with Winnipeg? Did Kane go sign with Buffalo? Did Rick Nash sign with Toronto? No. People shouldn't be afraid that Matthews will bolt in 7 years to Arizona .

 

[Ropesman]

What is with this notion that AM will bolt because he is from ARZ??? Think about this realistically. Every single player drafted out of NA has a favorite team growing up or a team close to their hometown. How many times do you actually see them running at first chance to said teams? Very seldom.

Not to mention the fact that it is a very real possibility that The coyotes are not even in ARZ come 7 years from now.

Phil Kessel did not give up because he was American and we are a Canadian team. He gave up because of the state the team was in, just was not a good fit. The price we paid for him and missing out on Seguin was a bad start to his time in TO. Even though none of that is his fault and all he did was score 30 a year for us year on year out.

Why don't we all just relax and let the kid get drafted and see how things go before we jump to such wild accusations before he even steps on the ice.

 

[Mess]

How many Toronto born players signed with Toronto the first chance they had? None. I think that Matthews will be a Leaf for a long time, unless he busts. How many players go back to sign with thier home towns? Did Toews go sign with Winnipeg? Did Kane go sign with Buffalo? Did Rick Nash sign with Toronto? No. People shouldn't be afraid that Matthews will bolt in 7 years to Arizona .

Stamkos signing in Toronto in a few weeks would be an example of this very thing happening, so its not an impossibility either of occurring, while perhaps unlikely.

It doesn't happen in general because once a player has been with an organization a long time he now calls that place home as its where he resides and become a part of that community setting up his life, and where he was born a secondary motivation.

If Matthews was Canadian born and even more so Ontario born it wouldn't be a factor in consideration at all, like say if Leafs were drafting McDavid. Matthews is American and as such while remote is still a possibility that he would prefer to play in his own country when he reaches UFA status. I'm not worried myself, and believe should still draft him even if that possibility exists because a lot can happen in 7 years to change a players desires at draft time.

 

[pspot]

Can we please stop discussing the Lindross deal like its a comparable situation?

Lindross had a big attitude problem with Quebec and ANNOUNCED he did not want to play there BEFORE the draft. This is not 1992 and Matthews is not Lindross.

the comparison shows that the team giving up a player like Lindros (which mathews is) can still win the trade

OEL, Strome, 7th is a pretty damn strong offer that you'd at least have to think about

 

[Leaf handler]

As tempting as an overpayment from Arizona would be (even though I don't think they would offer what it would take) - there is a much larger list of finding top defenseman outside the top of the draft versus finding a top C. As great as OEL++ would be I think you're almost betting against yourself. Easier to draft the 1C and hope to find the defense elsewhere versus acquiring the 1D and trying to find the 1C.

Can't wait to see Matthews in the new jersey on the draft stage.

 

[Jack Bauer]

the comparison shows that the team giving up a player like Lindros (which mathews is) can still win the trade

OEL, Strome, 7th is a pretty damn strong offer that you'd at least have to think about

I don't think it is at all.

That's an offer i'd expect if I wanted to move the pick.

If I don't, you better be prepared to pay up. Especially when if i'm forced to do a deal, i'm calling 28 other teams along with Arizona to get offers.

OEL's age and contract make me require way more then Strome and the 7th pick to give up on Matthews, personally. Unprotected 2017 1st has to be in the offer.

 

[Ari91]

The draft can't come soon enough. I just want the Leafs to hurry up and pick Matthews so we can just stop all of the speculation about who should be drafted with the first overall pick and who is offering what in return for that pick. The scouting report suggests that Matthews is the best player in the draft. Matthews is a very likely franchise centre. The Leafs desperately need a franchise centre. They also have the first pick. It's pretty cut and dry to me. Now if Hunter throws a curveball, I'll gladly accept it. I trust that man more than I trust myself or anyone else where when it comes to scouting, lol.

 

[Mugzy97]

I don't think it is at all.

That's an offer i'd expect if I wanted to move the pick.

If I don't, you better be prepared to pay up. Especially when if i'm forced to do a deal, i'm calling 28 other teams along with Arizona to get offers.

OEL's age and contract make me require way more then Strome and the 7th pick to give up on Matthews, personally. Unprotected 2017 1st has to be in the offer.

I really want Matthews, but the illogical trade of OEL, Strome, and 7th overall would be heavily considered and probably done. You get back less of a center prospect, but you get a top 5 d in the league as well as a great draft pick. You'd be insane to turn that down. But on the same page, Arizona would never offer that. This whole discussion is a waste of time.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

drafting Matthews definitely fills a major hole we've had for years. but at the same time its important to gauge what the interest is for the pick. its a disservice to the franchise if this is not done.

and if the offer for the 1st is substantial, meaning the return could be more beneficial to us than what Matthews could do for this franchise, then you have to think about it. like many people have said above, I'd definitely consider OEL, Strome and 7th, for 1st. its a good package but not sure if i'd pull the trigger. its up to shanahan and co to make that decision and know if matthews will help our franchise better or if that package from arizona will.

i'm happy with either decision.

 

[Mess]

I really want Matthews, but the illogical trade of OEL, Strome, and 7th overall would be heavily considered and probably done. You get back less of a center prospect, but you get a top 5 d in the league as well as a great draft pick. You'd be insane to turn that down. But on the same page, Arizona would never offer that. This whole discussion is a waste of time.

The rumour tossed out was Arizona offering both their 1sts #7 & #20 and Dvorak for #1.

It was said they have little interest in trading OEL nor Strome.

So their offer and even what Leaf fans are dreaming up are a far cry from each other. Even with OEL and Strome and the 7th (something Arizona would not likely even remotely consider) fans are still willing to keep Matthews.

So you can see this trade is not going to happen and Leafs will be drafting their franchise centre in a couple weeks.