Post-Game Talk: Coyotes Gagner 5-1

[Rafters]

It's really quite simple what the real problem with this team is......until they figure out you need to work and skate as hard on the defensive side of the puck as you do on the offensive side......to take as much pride in making a defensive play as a toe drag or saucer pass.............the Kings were the same way until their top players figured this out

 

[rboomercat90]

Eichel was drafted by Halifax and refused to report there when they had MacKinnon and Drouin. Do u think he will come here to this mess?

I heard a Boston area reporter on Lowetides show, about a month ago, saying he thinks he'll go back to college next year. It had something to do with the frozen four being in that area next year. If true, whatever the real reasons are, would that affect the Oilers drafting plans?

 

[Soundwave]

It's really quite simple what the real problem with this team is......until they figure out you need to work and skate as hard on the defensive side of the puck as you do on the offensive side......to take as much pride in making a defensive play as a toe drag or saucer pass.............the Kings were the same way until their top players figured this out

They're never going to be that team and the Kings only play that way because Daryl Sutter is the most defensive minded coach in the league.

You need a coach who can actually work with this team for what it is, not some imaginary concept of what they should be.

Hartley coaches a uptempo/risky style in Calgary. Roy does the same in Colorado, they're both having more success than us even if it is uneven in Colorado.

That's why I'm suggesting Marc Crawford as coach, he has coached groups with a makeup similar to the current Oilers and has had tremendous success in player development in such situations.

 

[lampshade*]

Funny how Tampa doesn't agree. They chose cap space over Gagner and wanted nothing to do with him. I wonder why.

Doesn't look to me like they are regretting that decision one bit either.

Comparing the oilers to a top team in the nhl and assuming both teams needs are the same is a mistake youve made. Id like ti hear your excuse on this one.

 

[Soundwave]

I heard a Boston area reporter on Lowetides show, about a month ago, saying he thinks he'll go back to college next year. It had something to do with the frozen four being in that area next year. If true, whatever the real reasons are, would that affect the Oilers drafting plans?

I would still pick him, but he's already said when specifically asked about Edmonton that he'd be happy to play here, said playing in the NHL would be a dream.

Frozen Four is nice ... but $3 million in your bank account when you're 19 and travelling on chartered planes, staying in five star hotels while being on TV is a little nicer IMO. I'm sure his agent would like his cut too, so I doubt he would be pushing for him to stay in the NCAA either.

NCAA Hockey is probably just above darts for popularity in the US too, lol. I'm sure the Boston-area media would like to see him stay, but I don't see why he would.

To be honest I think in a lot of ways it's borderline irresponsible to stay in college (be it hockey, basketball, football) any longer than you have if you have a legit chance of making millions at a pro level immediately. What happens if in that extra college year you blow out your knee or some 10-cent college coke machine decides to make a name for themselves with a dirty hit on you? A guaranteed top-3 rookie contract sets you up for life even if you do nothing but invest in a vanilla mutual fund. You can go take college classes in the summer at any point in your life.

 

[Rawg]

Where do people get this malarkey from?

If your 2nd line Center is getting around 45pts/year that's beyond the curve production. That's good for 2nd unit Center production. Especially on a bad club. It isn't hard to check NHL stats and have even a reasonably informed opinion on that. I mean one that even has a basis in fact.

edit I'm bored so I'll hash this out a little. Gagner had an off season last year due to injury where everything in his play was not representative. Fact of the matter is in the 6 previous seasons Gagner has AVERAGED being the 44th top NHL scoring Center from years 07-08 to 12-13. He was 18-23 yrs old during that time and BEATING the average for what a second line Center would produce if one considers theres 30 teams..

Next, Gagner is not an average 40pt player. That infers sub .500 ppg production. Gagners career ppg production including recent rough patches is still over .600ppg. Inconvenient truth I realize.

So how is that "mediocre" production for a young 2nd line Center? Oh wait, it isn't. Can we put that notion to pasture?

As for Dubnyk he wasn't even required to be good tonight. Oilers didn't put up a lot of quality chances.

He is currently 67th in center scoring, last year he was 74th, 17th in the lockout season. His only impressive scoring was in the lockout year, the last two years he has been the definition of mediocre. After last nights 4 point game which is generally an outlier game, hes still on pace for...39 points. I also don't get why we're talking like he is still a center when he has been playing as a RW for phoenix because he wasn't good enough to be a center for them. I know what hes done, but Im talking about what he is DOING now.

Hes small and undersized, is physically out-muscled and pushed off of the puck. hes frequently out of position, and/or covers the wrong man, and cant win face-offs at a consistent level and doesnt have an amazing shot. I loved his heart and try and his compete when he played for us, but the simple fact is he is not good enough to be a 2nd line center on a winning NHL team. Im not one of the Anti Gagner/Pro Gagner people who spew vitriol at the opposing side, I think both on this board are ridiculous, which is what happens when the team goes 1-19 in 20 games and every topic must be beat to death.

Sammy is just getting rolling here. Lets see how big that gap is by the end of the season - if Arco is still in the NHL by that point I mean.

How is Sammy just getting rolling when hes scored 6 points in his last 12 games, and 5 of those were in 2 against the Oilers? he cant keep up that pace, we are done playing the coyotes I don't think Arcobello is a better player, I just don't think Gagner right now is or ever will be a solution to a NHL teams 2nd line center position

How would anyone know that since he's played on nothing but the worst teams in the league since being drafted.

Because winning teams need their centers to be able to win faceoffs, and handle the opposition, which even Gagners biggest supports will admit he has issues with

What is that supposed to tell me? Tippet benched him for a game. Big deal. Lots of very good players have been benched at one time or another during their career

He was benched for playing badly and having 3 goals in his past 21 games including last night, He was been very...mediocre offensively this year

I don't say he was the "best player on the ice", those are your words. But if you think he was, and the Oilers dressed three first overalls last night, what does that mean. Let that sink in ...

ps Gagner was the best player on the ice the LAST time these two teams played and I said so. Not like tonight is isolated case.

They are not my words Im not defending or advocating any of the Oilers play.

Anyways, hopefully everyone has a Merry Christmas and a wonderful new year, Im back off to the Lone star state myself

 

[sportsdynasty]

Well, if this garbage on-ice product nets us McDavid... after flipping between this horror show and the Canada/Swiss game, and seeing the kid's astronomical hockey sense and skating -- I'm onboard with this season's dismal spiral. How about you fellas? Just no point in improving a few spots and losing the better odds of drafting that kid. What the hell would be the point?

The NHL changed the draft lottery rules so Edmonton would stop tanking for the first overall pick. Yet here again we are tanking for first overall, going for our 4th in 5 years.

 

[TRG]

This ignores that when these two goaliies play fantastic, and theres been several of those games already, the team still loses. So for the goalies its a double edged sword. Play fantastic and everbody else is subpar. Let in some weak goals and it forces the team to play with the intensity it should..

These are goalies that know whats going on here and have both referenced it.

This team plays well enough to lose and are apparently fine with bringing that level of commitment. To quote Friedman last night the Oilers don't have 20 players bringing it. Nothing close.

Yeah you're right. I don't and can't watch all Oilers games (thanks to ****ing blackouts) so it's hard to judge. I just see these two allowing some awful awful goals. At the same time, their confidence must be at an all time low, playing behind such a defensively putrid team. I bet it's damn hard to be sharp and motivated all the time having no other choice but to be perfect and playing for a clown like MacT.

 

[Blue And Orange]

IF we keep this up, we're guaranteed either McDavid or Eichel.

Next draft (2016), the 30th place team can drop to 4th overall. Thats when the radical change to the NHL lottery begin.

 

[Mowgli]

They're never going to be that team and the Kings only play that way because Daryl Sutter is the most defensive minded coach in the league.

You need a coach who can actually work with this team for what it is, not some imaginary concept of what they should be.

Hartley coaches a uptempo/risky style in Calgary. Roy does the same in Colorado, they're both having more success than us even if it is uneven in Colorado.

That's why I'm suggesting Marc Crawford as coach, he has coached groups with a makeup similar to the current Oilers and has had tremendous success in player development in such situations.

I think your concept of what this team is is imaginary. There's 3 good offensive players.the rest aren't good at either side of the puck. Are Nikitin, Fayne, Ference, Petry puck movers? Are any the forwards outside of Ebs, Nuge, Hall and Perron scorers? This team isn't built for a risky game, it's built to defend with slow defenders. The trouble is, they're terrible at that too

 

[Replacement*]

He is currently 67th in center scoring, last year he was 74th, 17th in the lockout season. His only impressive scoring was in the lockout year, the last two years he has been the definition of mediocre. After last nights 4 point game which is generally an outlier game, hes still on pace for...39 points. I also don't get why we're talking like he is still a center when he has been playing as a RW for phoenix because he wasn't good enough to be a center for them. I know what hes done, but Im talking about what he is DOING now.

So his 49pt rookie season wasn't impressive? Over .600career ppg isn't impressive for a young center? Lets keep in mind as well that a 2nd Center SHOULD be ranging around 30th to 60th in pts among NHL centers. Gagner has fallen in that range and in the 40's much of that time. Again as I mentioned averaging 44th spot. This year isn't over yet either.

Hes small and undersized,

lol He's 202lbs. He's put on the weight and the battle. Could take some time for his play to grow into some more bulk but he's done that and is taking training seriously.

is physically out-muscled and pushed off of the puck.

Old opinions die hard.

hes frequently out of position, and/or covers the wrong man

Could be said about any Oiler. He's been the best Yote since the one game benching. Lets see what happens as he develops while having a competent coach for the first time since Krueger when he did great.

,

and cant win face-offs at a consistent level

Gagner is 47.5% and Arco is 47.9. Yet in most peoples minds ARco wins this hands down.

and doesnt have an amazing shot. I loved his heart and try and his compete when he played for us, but the simple fact is he is not good enough to be a 2nd line center on a winning NHL team.

This is pure and simple conjecture.

Im not one of the Anti Gagner/Pro Gagner people who spew vitriol at the opposing side, I think both on this board are ridiculous, which is what happens when the team goes 1-19 in 20 games and every topic must be beat to death.

Fair enough.

How is Sammy just getting rolling when hes scored 6 points in his last 12 games, and 5 of those were in 2 against the Oilers? he cant keep up that pace, we are done playing the coyotes I don't think Arcobello is a better player, I just don't think Gagner right now is or ever will be a solution to a NHL teams 2nd line center position

Again 311pts by the time he's age 25 means he's productive at the NHL level. .600ppg means he's productive at the NHL level. he's also hitting prime. The Oilers have regularly tossed away their centers once they hit prime. Why the Oilers have a habit of that is beyond me but its the stupidest thing to develop players, and especially Centers, for other clubs to benefit from.

Because winning teams need their centers to be able to win faceoffs, and handle the opposition, which even Gagners biggest supports will admit he has issues with

Becoming less of a problem.

He was benched for playing badly and having 3 goals in his past 21 games including last night, He was been very...mediocre offensively this year

He's got 4 less pts than a couple of our first line players who get far more minutes and better toi, and linemates. Gagner spent appreciable time playing with guys like Korpikoski. A guy likely to get 20pts.


[

B]They are not my words Im not defending or advocating any of the Oilers play.[/B]

Anyways, hopefully everyone has a Merry Christmas and a wonderful new year, Im back off to the Lone star state myself

[/QUOTE]

Merry Christmas back at ya.

 

[Soundwave]

I think your concept of what this team is is imaginary. There's 3 good offensive players.the rest aren't good at either side of the puck. Are Nikitin, Fayne, Ference, Petry puck movers? Are any the forwards outside of Ebs, Nuge, Hall and Perron scorers? This team isn't built for a risky game, it's built to defend with slow defenders. The trouble is, they're terrible at that too

This team is "built to defend", really?

Could've fooled me. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that.

How many "snipers" does Calgary have on their team?

 

[harpoon]

How is Sammy just getting rolling

Eight points in ten games over the month of December. Another point again last night.
Watch him heat right up in the New Year - as he usually does.
Hope you are enjoying Texas. And the best of the season to you too.

 

[Replacement*]

Eight points in ten games over the month of December. Another point again last night.
Watch him heat right up in the New Year - as he usually does.
Hope you are enjoying Texas. And the best of the season to you too.

Sammy had zero pts in first 6 games while adjusting to a new team and new linemates. Complicating matters is he's moved around the lineup quite a bit. In last 28GP he has 17pts. Oddly enough this is a better pace than most of our first line. Sammy has played LESS minutes and until Hanzal with guys that aren't exactly gifted. But I would say 7pts in last 5GP and pts in 4 of them is definitely rolling.

ps I like how some of last weeks logic is running. A dispirited Gagner finds himself on yet another bad team and has a bit of a funk wondering if he'll ever get a chance to play on a competive side. He gets benched for one game with the suggestion he sucks as a hockey player and that this is indication of it. He responds from that benching with as many pts in the last 5GP as pretty much anybody in the league.

The Oilers engage in another round of coach killing play. Get new coach(es) and respond as if nothing has happened and in the same funk that resulted in where we are and with not a pulse in sight. Like I've been saying all along we got rid of one of the few players we had who has any fire.

At least you can wake up a Gagner. People should let that sink in.