Post-Game Talk: Coyotes at Avalanche 7PM MST | Please sir, may we have some goals?

[klozge]

I think our biggest issue right now is that Duchene and Stastny after their injuries are not the same players they were. We really lack their goals now. If they don't breakout soon we could be in trouble. It's a pity we missed so many opportunities in the first period and clear breakaway by Benoit in the second. We could easily be three, four goals ahead before Yotes scored they first goal. We really need to bounce back against Jets.

I think the biggest issue is still Tanguay's injury. Without him Avs have lost 50% of their games. And while they scored 8 powerplay goals in 13 games with him in the lineup, they only scored 5 PPGs in 16 games without him.

Edit: The biggest difference is Colorado's GAA before and after Tanguay's injury by the way. There are other factors as well obviously but I think it shows how good Stastny's line was with Tangs.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think the biggest issue is still Tanguay's injury. Without him Avs have lost 50% of their games. And while they scored 8 powerplay goals in 13 games with him in the lineup, they only scored 5 PPGs in 16 games without him.

Edit: The biggest difference is Colorado's GAA before and after Tanguay's injury by the way. There are other factors as well obviously but I think it shows how good Stastny's line was with Tangs.

I think those numbers still would've regressed had Tangs stayed healthy, but losing him hastened the fall from grace. But it's clear that without Tangs, Roy can't ice three lines that can score, and that's really put a big dent in the offense.

 

[bohlmeister]

Tangs was really, really good before the injury. I was impressed, and I was the guy who wanted him because of how he played for Calgary. We don't have a player that can slow the play down, and show the patience that Tangs has. We miss him big time IMO.

 

[hawk30]

What gripes me about the Tanguay trade is that a blind person could've seen his injuries coming. Don't get me wrong -- he's a great fit when he plays -- but it wasn't the most prescient move. It's not 2003 anymore.

Combine it with the Downie trade and our 3rd line is gutted just a third into the season. Of course, no Tanguay is approximately the same as 1 healthy David Jones.

 

[cgf]

What gripes me about the Tanguay trade is that a blind person could've seen his injuries coming. Don't get me wrong -- he's a great fit when he plays -- but it wasn't the most prescient move. It's not 2003 anymore.

Combine it with the Downie trade and our 3rd line is gutted just a third into the season. Of course, no Tanguay is approximately the same as 1 healthy David Jones.

How can you have gripes about the Tanguay trade while admitting we traded away a whole bunch a nuthin to make it happen?

This team needs to have three dangerous and versatile lines, it made us special and have us an advantage to rely on, without it we don't overwhelm teams with a constant barrage of tough, skilled speed. With Dutchy banged up that exacerbates the problem.

 

[Pokecheque]

What gripes me about the Tanguay trade is that a blind person could've seen his injuries coming. Don't get me wrong -- he's a great fit when he plays -- but it wasn't the most prescient move. It's not 2003 anymore.

Combine it with the Downie trade and our 3rd line is gutted just a third into the season. Of course, no Tanguay is approximately the same as 1 healthy David Jones.

I'd rather have Tanguay at 3.5 than Jones at 4. I liked Jones and thought his struggles were largely the fault of Joe Sacco, who deployed him in a ridiculous fashion. That said, Jones never should have gotten the coin he got, given his injury history and inconsistency. I felt like Sherman gave him that contract because the team didn't have anything else at the time that resembled a scoring winger. It was a mistake, one that was quickly rectified by the new regime.

Yeah, you could see the Tanguay injury coming, but what exactly makes him less reliable than David Jones?

I don't mind the Downie trade either, but I've harped on that a lot already, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[cgf]

I like how we see less *****ing about the Downie trade now that talbot's settled in and showing what he was brought in for. Now we just gotta get healthy so he can do that next McGinn and MacKinnon or O'Reilly and Duchene.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

So Duchene is mentally fragile after coming off an injury and unable to put up the points like he was before he went down?

He forced himself into the lineup for the STL game because Stastny was out and he had the flu the 2 games against Minny.

The puck might as well be a grenade on his stick. He had at least 3 blue line turnovers (our blue line) that I can remember. He didn't use his teammates and spun like Tasmanian Devil.

If it's not injury then he's letting the fact he can't score right now completely alter his game.

 

[klozge]

I like how we see less *****ing about the Downie trade now that talbot's settled in and showing what he was brought in for. Now we just gotta get healthy so he can do that next McGinn and MacKinnon or O'Reilly and Duchene.

Tanguay's injury happened in the 2nd game after the Downie trade and the beginning of the Varly situation. So it's not easy to say which event has had what kind of impact.

I took a look at how different some of the stats have been after those three incidents:

- G/G with Tangs 3.23, without him 2.56. GA/G with him 1.46, without him 3.06
- 16 games without Tanguay now: 8 wins, 8 losses. With Tangs: 12 wins, 1 loss.
- With Tangs: 8 PPG in 13 games, without him 5 PPG in 16 games
- SV% of both goalies before and after the beginning of the Varlamov situation (I left the game in STL out for Varly because he only played 13 minutes): Before - Varly .945, Giguere .981 (only 3 games) After: V - .909, G - .913

Avs won the two games after Downie/Varly and before Tanguay's injury (he got injured in the 2nd game), allowed 3 goals in total and scored 7. Very much like the average game in October. (No PPG, though) This doesn't have to mean that Tanguay's injury is the main thing which has effected the quality of the Avs' performance.
And obviously other things (different opponents, other injuries, teams have learned how to play the "new" Avs and a lot of other stuff) have had their effects, too.

I think Tanguay's injury is the biggest reason why the Avs have come to earth but it's pretty much just speculation.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I'd rather have Tanguay at 3.5 than Jones at 4. I liked Jones and thought his struggles were largely the fault of Joe Sacco, who deployed him in a ridiculous fashion. That said, Jones never should have gotten the coin he got, given his injury history and inconsistency. I felt like Sherman gave him that contract because the team didn't have anything else at the time that resembled a scoring winger. It was a mistake, one that was quickly rectified by the new regime.

Yeah, you could see the Tanguay injury coming, but what exactly makes him less reliable than David Jones?

I don't mind the Downie trade either, but I've harped on that a lot already, so I'll just leave it at that.

Ding ding. I agree. I think Avalanche made huge mistake re-signing Jones, but after getting Tanguay in return for him, I'd say they made right choice.

 

[Hesher]

Roy needs to go back to what worked. Duchene with O'Reilly and Stastny with Landeskog please.

 

[freeboy]

I hate losing

 

[Bubba Thudd]

You can't win if you don't play.

 

[Foppa2118]

Roy needs to go back to what worked. Duchene with O'Reilly and Stastny with Landeskog please.

From start to finish, they need to go with this next game IMO.

O'Reilly - Duchene - PAP
Landy - Staz - MacKinnon
McGinn - Mitchell - Talbot
McLeod - Cliche- - Bordy

Benoit - EJ
Guenin - Barrie
Holen - Sarich

Benoit needs to be on the top pairing, no more of Guenin there. He's a much better fit as a stay at home guy for Barrie, than friggin Holden which makes them a disaster. Play Benoit-EJ close to 30 minutes like Suter-Weber, and Holden and Sarich as little as possible. That's the best recipe for success right now. If they're not going to make a trade to improve their top four, they need to lean heavily on their good defenseman and keep the worse ones off the ice as much as possible, and in the best position to succeed.

 

[cgf]

I'd like to see us try
ROR-Dtuch-PAP
Landy-Staz-Malkin
McG-MacK-Talbot
As the top 9. Go back to three lines and see if Malkin can keep his good play up on our shutdown line.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think that is what's going to happen (Foppa's lines) except Guenin will get one more game with EJ. Hejda and Wilson are coming back Saturday. So who is the odd man out? Barrie?

 

[dahrougem2]

From start to finish, they need to go with this next game IMO.

O'Reilly - Duchene - PAP
Landy - Staz - MacKinnon
McGinn - Mitchell - Talbot
McLeod - Cliche- - Bordy

Benoit - EJ
Guenin - Barrie
Holen - Sarich

Benoit needs to be on the top pairing, no more of Guenin there. He's a much better fit as a stay at home guy for Barrie, than friggin Holden which makes them a disaster. Play Benoit-EJ close to 30 minutes like Suter-Weber, and Holden and Sarich as little as possible. That's the best recipe for success right now. If they're not going to make a trade to improve their top four, they need to lean heavily on their good defenseman and keep the worse ones off the ice as much as possible, and in the best position to succeed.

I agree, only I don't think Guenin should play with Barrie, I think it should be Sarich. The way Guenin has been playing lately he should be seeing as little time as possible, even if it means having to play Sarich a lot more

 

[AvsWraith]

We don't have a player that can slow the play down, and show the patience that Tangs has. We miss him big time IMO.

Offensively, you can bring everything that has gone wrong back to this. Roy/Sakic need another forward that can play like this. Slow the play down, cycle, build chemistry, make the right decision, ect. Without it, our star players are just playing Sacco style hockey, meaning one shot and immediately out of the zone with no added pressure.

 

[AMDZen]

From start to finish, they need to go with this next game IMO.

O'Reilly - Duchene - PAP
Landy - Staz - MacKinnon
McGinn - Mitchell - Talbot
McLeod - Cliche- - Bordy

Benoit - EJ
Guenin - Barrie
Holen - Sarich

Benoit needs to be on the top pairing, no more of Guenin there. He's a much better fit as a stay at home guy for Barrie, than friggin Holden which makes them a disaster. Play Benoit-EJ close to 30 minutes like Suter-Weber, and Holden and Sarich as little as possible. That's the best recipe for success right now. If they're not going to make a trade to improve their top four, they need to lean heavily on their good defenseman and keep the worse ones off the ice as much as possible, and in the best position to succeed.

I agree with this except that Wilson will be back so the D pairings should be this instead

Benoit - EJ
Guenin - Barrie
Wilson - Sarich

Holden scratched

 

[the_fan]

Whenever the Avs management realizes that you can't win with AHL defense in the NHL that's when they'll make changes and start winning. For now they are still fooled and riding on the hot start they had in October.

 

[Hesher]

Foppa's lines look good to me.

 

[bromando]

Was at the game last night. We fully dominated that first period. It reminded me of the Avs of last year though - they got frustrated when they couldn't score and lost all intensity in the 2nd and 3rd. We had so many turnovers and just didn't fight along the boards for the puck. We really should have had two or three goals in that first period and if we did, we win that game.

The Coyotes really didn't do too much besides the three goals and a few shifts where they held us in our zone for a while. If Varly is on his game, they only score one of those goals and again it's a totally different game.

I really hope Duchene scores next game because he just isn't nearly as explosive as earlier in the year. Landy too. Both of them have lost that dominant edge that they've shown throughout the season. I know they can get back there...just waiting for it to happen.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Whenever the Avs management realizes that you can't win with AHL defense in the NHL that's when they'll make changes and start winning. For now they are still fooled and riding on the hot start they had in October.

How are they fooled? They've already been involved in one rumor for nearly acquiring a defenseman. You just hear what you want to hear.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Whenever the Avs management realizes that you can't win with AHL defense in the NHL that's when they'll make changes and start winning. For now they are still fooled and riding on the hot start they had in October.

Yep, but the problem is, how do you fix defense? There's no quick fix basically. There are so many teams after youngish, good defenseman. Price to get one is huge. We have to give up good player to get good player, so who we have give up? Siemens, Elliott, Barrie, they were all great prospect one or two years ago, but now? Seems like they still need more time and they are not ready for the job.

Trade deadline is one chance, but then you have to overpay, but you can get lucky like Blues got Bouwmeester. Basically for free and then re-signed him. That was great deal by Blues.