News Article: Coyotes Announce Proposed Arena Location (UPD: Spiked by ASU)

[lanky]

There's a smugness among Canadian hockey fans because the sport is such a big part of the culture. That alone would be annoying for hockey fans in the sunbelt to deal with.

Winnipeg and QC hockey fans had to deal with a huge loss when their teams left. My friend seriously thinks it damaged his ability to trust loved ones. That's an extreme case but it goes to show there was a lot of pain. That pain has resulted in some shameful behaviour in anonymous online forums.

AZ benefitted from Winipeg's loss so it's not surprising that AZ fans would be the target of that shameful behaviour that resulted from the pain of loss, all stacked on top of that cultural superiority.

It's not like Winnipegers are dicks. They're very friendly, it says so on their license plates. They're just dicks whem it comes to NHL franchise relocation.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Unfortunately there were so many Winnipeg fans on HF's Business of Hockey section who were anything but respectable. I include here those who willingly allowed the standards of acceptable posts to fall by the wayside. Remember the Winnipeg fans posting photos of an empty arena actually taken an hour before puck drop? I recall reading in the closing of the last megathread that the powers that be would once again expect the standards for posting to be observed. It was just sickening that they allowed us to be the pinatas for Canadian anger over American encroachment on their game.

I'm looking at things I've seen not just on here. Other places where hockey fans are...

And Quebec fans have still been doing the post pictures of an empty arena before the game is being played. I even see Quebec fans get excited when the Coyotes plane is in Seattle bc they think the team is moving there. A lot don't even seem to care if they get the team, they just don't want it in Arizona.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

There's a smugness among Canadian hockey fans because the sport is such a big part of the culture. That alone would be annoying for hockey fans in the sunbelt to deal with.

Winnipeg and QC hockey fans had to deal with a huge loss when their teams left. My friend seriously thinks it damaged his ability to trust loved ones. That's an extreme case but it goes to show there was a lot of pain. That pain has resulted in some shameful behaviour in anonymous online forums.

AZ benefitted from Winipeg's loss so it's not surprising that AZ fans would be the target of that shameful behaviour that resulted from the pain of loss, all stacked on top of that culiral superiority.

It's not like Winnipegers are dicks. They're very friendly, it says so on their license plates. They're just dicks whem it comes to NHL franchise relocation.

The difference being, Arizonans never tried to pull the Jets out of Winnipeg. The team fell in our laps after the Minnesota deal fell through. Grief and a sense of cultural superiority, as you stated, is no excuse for their behavior. So, yes, IMO Winnipeg hockey fans are dicks. It should state that on their license plates too.

 

[XX]

I'm looking at things I've seen not just on here. Other places where hockey fans are...

Winnipeg trolls took to azcentral's comment section to constantly whine and troll, getting it shut down in the process.

Quebec fans did this:

 

[lanky]

The difference being, Arizonans never tried to pull the Jets out of Winnipeg. The team fell in our laps after the Minnesota deal fell through. Grief and a sense of cultural superiority, as you stated, is no excuse for their behavior. So, yes, IMO Winnipeg hockey fans are dicks. It should state that on their license plates too.

I'm not giving excuses, I'm explaining the root causes.

I think you'd change your opinion if you talked to Winnipeg fans about any other topic. If you want to give it a try then you're welcome to my airbnb suite next time the Coyotes are in Winnipeg.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Winnipeg trolls took to azcentral's comment section to constantly whine and troll, getting it shut down in the process.

I've seen Nordique fans comment on Arizona stuff too.


And my personal experience with Jets fans has been much better than that with Nordique fans. There's only been about 5 or so Jets fans that have been very bad, not many compared to Nordique fans. (and there is a difference between bad and very bad)

 

[_Del_]

Considering the controlling interest in Carolina Hurricanes have been up for sale for going on four years now with no takers. Odds are favoring I'm not speculating.

So you both are presenting contradictory statements as fact and neither can provide a reference. Excellent.

 

[XX]

I've seen Nordique fans comment on Arizona stuff too.

And my personal experience with Jets fans has been much better than that with Nordique fans. There's only been about 5 or so Jets fans that have been very bad, not many compared to Nordique fans. (and there is a difference between bad and very bad)

Ok? I don't particularly care. Quebec deserves a team and has for some time now, much more so than Winnipeg. They went out and built an incredible facility to get one. If it's the Coyotes, I'm definitely okay with that. I think there's a bunch of solid reasons why the team will move in a few months. All indicators are that the NHL is about to have to hold the bag, and that's when they bail. People can make as many dumb arguments as they want about how the NHL "needs" Arizona. Most are completely misguided or ignore the decision making pattern that has lead us to this point.

The Coyotes are the team most under the gun. They have no local partners. They are bleeding money like crazy, lead by a group that doesn't have much money to begin with. This group has heavily hinted at possible relocation when questioned about what happens if the Tempe deal falls through. The league is one of the largest creditors and they won't lose money if they can avoid it. This team was a no vote away from being in Winnipeg. It's now a "we're tapped out here Gary" from being in Quebec or some other city. They can't muster any meaningful legislative support and they have no political pull, nor do they have a lot of capital to invest themselves. The public has turned firmly against public funding and the Suns can just wait out the Coyotes.

The league could forgive debt, but why would they? For IA? The guys that trashed the best lease this team was likely to ever see? They acquired this team with a debt bomb built in and the story was always going to end unhappily if they didn't turn around cash flows. They haven't. They've soured in the worst way possible with no turn around in site, barring some kind of partnership miracle in the next few months. Barroway was already dug up by the NHL to inject more capital into the group. Where's the cavalry coming from this time?

Quebec needs a team. They'd be profitable and good for the game. They are not going to pay the expansion price and have made that clear. The only way they get a team is if they pick one off. If the Coyotes sell, Karmanos can ask more for the Hurricanes. He can wait. The Islanders can wait. With another western team coming online, that means one can move east. Now is the time, as unfortunate as that is.

I'd be happy to be wrong but they basically need another miracle at the moment.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Ok? I don't particularly care.

This is confusing, you don't care but respond and type out a few paragraphs?

Quebec deserves a team and has for some time now, much more so than Winnipeg. They went out and built an incredible facility to get one.

This is a major pet peeve of mine with Quebec. They had a huge issue with how the Coyotes received a subsidy of something like 14.5m. (Winnipeg for reference gets around 12.5m) but they completely ignore how their arena was 100% tax payer funded. They even asked the federal government for funding. And you could even look at the tax money that went towards the arena as non-Quebec tax money. Quebec, the province receives something like 9 billion in equalization payments (welfare) from "have" provinces in Canada, which are western provinces, who have struggled to pay for their new facilities. Oilers arena, Regina's new stadium, Vancouver had major renovations for BC Place and Calgary is struggling to replace the Saddledome and McMahon stadium.

 

[rt]

There's a smugness among Canadian hockey fans because the sport is such a big part of the culture. That alone would be annoying for hockey fans in the sunbelt to deal with.

Winnipeg and QC hockey fans had to deal with a huge loss when their teams left. My friend seriously thinks it damaged his ability to trust loved ones. That's an extreme case but it goes to show there was a lot of pain. That pain has resulted in some shameful behaviour in anonymous online forums.

AZ benefitted from Winipeg's loss so it's not surprising that AZ fans would be the target of that shameful behaviour that resulted from the pain of loss, all stacked on top of that cultural superiority.

It's not like Winnipegers are dicks. They're very friendly, it says so on their license plates. They're just dicks whem it comes to NHL franchise relocation.

I'm sure people in Winnipeg are great. I have no doubt. Things were ugly before they got a team back. And. It just in the internet. Even after they got a team, Winnipeg games I've attended at GRA (then jobing.com) were worse than Buffalo games in terms of behavior and worse than Chicago games in smugness and completely misplaced ill wishes (why would you want the team to leave and lose your annual buddies trip to play world class cheap golf in the winter and attend NHL games for pennies on the dollar?).

 

[rt]

I've seen Nordique fans comment on Arizona stuff too.


And my personal experience with Jets fans has been much better than that with Nordique fans. There's only been about 5 or so Jets fans that have been very bad, not many compared to Nordique fans. (and there is a difference between bad and very bad)

Complete opposite for me.

 

[rt]

Ok? I don't particularly care. Quebec deserves a team and has for some time now, much more so than Winnipeg. They went out and built an incredible facility to get one. If it's the Coyotes, I'm definitely okay with that. I think there's a bunch of solid reasons why the team will move in a few months. All indicators are that the NHL is about to have to hold the bag, and that's when they bail. People can make as many dumb arguments as they want about how the NHL "needs" Arizona. Most are completely misguided or ignore the decision making pattern that has lead us to this point.

The Coyotes are the team most under the gun. They have no local partners. They are bleeding money like crazy, lead by a group that doesn't have much money to begin with. This group has heavily hinted at possible relocation when questioned about what happens if the Tempe deal falls through. The league is one of the largest creditors and they won't lose money if they can avoid it. This team was a no vote away from being in Winnipeg. It's now a "we're tapped out here Gary" from being in Quebec or some other city. They can't muster any meaningful legislative support and they have no political pull, nor do they have a lot of capital to invest themselves. The public has turned firmly against public funding and the Suns can just wait out the Coyotes.

The league could forgive debt, but why would they? For IA? The guys that trashed the best lease this team was likely to ever see? They acquired this team with a debt bomb built in and the story was always going to end unhappily if they didn't turn around cash flows. They haven't. They've soured in the worst way possible with no turn around in site, barring some kind of partnership miracle in the next few months. Barroway was already dug up by the NHL to inject more capital into the group. Where's the cavalry coming from this time?

Quebec needs a team. They'd be profitable and good for the game. They are not going to pay the expansion price and have made that clear. The only way they get a team is if they pick one off. If the Coyotes sell, Karmanos can ask more for the Hurricanes. He can wait. The Islanders can wait. With another western team coming online, that means one can move east. Now is the time, as unfortunate as that is.

I'd be happy to be wrong but they basically need another miracle at the moment.

The NHL is likely ready to move on from the Coyotes so they can attend to matters in Carolina and New York. AZ has been on life-support long enough and two new patients just landed in the ICU. I wouldn't be surprised to see that plug pulled.

 

[Jakey53]

Considering the controlling interest in Carolina Hurricanes have been up for sale for going on four years now with no takers. Odds are favoring I'm not speculating.

True, but only recently did the owner decide that selling the entire team would be an option.

 

[Coyotes2000]

The NHL is likely ready to move on from the Coyotes so they can attend to matters in Carolina and New York. AZ has been on life-support long enough and two new patients just landed in the ICU. I wouldn't be surprised to see that plug pulled.

Media markets, how do they work?

New York will sort itself out. Carolina on the other hand??

Until plan B, C, & D are on ice the NHL won't be thinking of abandoning this market.

 

[Jakey53]

Media markets, how do they work?

New York will sort itself out. Carolina on the other hand??

Until plan B, C, & D are on ice the NHL won't be thinking of abandoning this market.

I agree. Now is not the time to leave. Ten years ago maybe, but not now. NHL will work here, but our fanbase is really pathetic. With the economy improving, I'am hoping people will have a few more bucks to spend so maybe the casual hockey fan will attend more games.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

AZ benefitted from Winipeg's loss so it's not surprising that AZ fans would be the target of that shameful behaviour that resulted from the pain of loss, all stacked on top of that cultural superiority.

The thing that pisses me off currently is that whatever pain Winnipeggers and Quebecois felt is chump change compared to what we've gone through in the past decade. At the risk of sounding morbid, they lost a relative in a sudden plane crash, while we've spent ten years slowly dying of aggressive stomach cancer.

I say this not to diminish the pain of fans who lost their teams, but to ask why we can't be given the same sympathetic treatment they got. Is it because our team didn't leave? How is it better to have a team on the verge of relocating EVERY DAMN YEAR, compounded by the flood of mean-spirited attacks that never seem to cease from all sides? Hell, at this point I've even seen people from NASHVILLE saying we don't deserve a team (I guess the Music City would know all about bandwagons ).

So, at least in the online sphere, it is very difficult for me to empathize with people using their pain from relocations that happened over 20 years ago (and, in one case, ameliorated by the fact that they got a team back thanks to another relocation - an event that was ugly in and of itself because of the way people treated Thrashers fans) as an excuse to be turdpotatoes to other fans.

It's not like Winnipegers are dicks. They're very friendly, it says so on their license plates. They're just dicks whem it comes to NHL franchise relocation.

Most of the Winnipeggers I've met offline have been absolutely friendly and engaging, at least to my face, so I'm not interested on dumping on an entire fanbase. But I can't forget what the loud and persistent online minority did (and, in a few cases, continue to do) to tear us down.

Until plan B, C, & D are on ice the NHL won't be thinking of abandoning this market.

Considering that right now we're on Plan Q, you might be technically right.

NHL will work here, but our fanbase is really pathetic.

Isn't this a bit of a contradictory statement?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'm not giving excuses, I'm explaining the root causes.

I think you'd change your opinion if you talked to Winnipeg fans about any other topic. If you want to give it a try then you're welcome to my airbnb suite next time the Coyotes are in Winnipeg.

Thank you, but no. After all that went on I have absolutely no interest in anything or anyone Winnipeg. I root against the Jets when they come to town and enjoy the occasional schadenfreude, but otherwise I ignore the Jets and Winnipeg as if it wasn't a part of Canada. I enjoy my time in Canada, but won't step foot in Winnipeg.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

**** the Jets and a future NHL team in Quebec, but let's not act like our fan base is perfect here seeing we have plenty of our own *******s that have said and done a number of things that make all Coyotes fans look bad. Such things include make dumb generalizations of Canadians, assaulting opposing fans, and those who have blind loyalty to everything the franchise does and that includes having blind loyalty to any specific individual(s)(Dave Tippett and Mike Smith)in a ultra fanboy fashion.

 

[_Del_]

Until plan B, C, & D are on ice the NHL won't be thinking of abandoning this market.

Plan G is on ice. They either find a miracle in the next several months or they are gone. You might get next year while they try to figure out the logistics and line up an out of market buyer.

Your big hope is that the league cares more about Karmanos who is losing his own money, and that as a real owner the league wants to give him the opportunity to sell and move first. That might buy enough time to try to force a dual use arena in Phoenix. But even that is a crap shoot as the Suns are free to find other partners or relocate themselves.

 

[XX]

Media markets, how do they work?

AZ ratings don't mean **** to the NHL. See Atlanta.

This is confusing, you don't care but respond and type out a few paragraphs?

No, no. I don't care about your anecdotal responses is what I meant.

 

[zetajerk]

The difference being, Arizonans never tried to pull the Jets out of Winnipeg. The team fell in our laps after the Minnesota deal fell through. Grief and a sense of cultural superiority, as you stated, is no excuse for their behavior. So, yes, IMO Winnipeg hockey fans are dicks. It should state that on their license plates too.

This is something I've been wondering about and was hoping someone could shed some light on. From what I've read, it sounds like the franchise was about to walk into the same situation in Minnesota that it would end up in in Phoenix; Being bent over by an NBA team in their building and paying for the privilege. Just swap out the Suns for the Timberwolves, who were in a much better position in their market at that time than they are now. I don't think the franchise would have been any better off in Minneapolis if that was the case, despite what I've seen the northern ********s assert.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This is something I've been wondering about and was hoping someone could shed some light on. From what I've read, it sounds like the franchise was about to walk into the same situation in Minnesota that it would end up in in Phoenix; Being bent over by an NBA team in their building and paying for the privilege. Just swap out the Suns for the Timberwolves, who were in a much better position in their market at that time than they are now. I don't think the franchise would have been any better off in Minneapolis if that was the case, despite what I've seen the northern ********s assert.

It wouldn't have been, IMO. In fact, the Coyotes going to Phoenix was probably the best possible outcome for Minnesota. Well, almost - they DID call their team "the Wild" rather than something actually cool.

 

[kihekah19*]

It wouldn't have been, IMO. In fact, the Coyotes going to Phoenix was probably the best possible outcome for Minnesota. Well, almost - they DID call their team "the Wild" rather than something actually cool.

Very cool logo though