OT: Covid-19 (Part 56) Convoy Edition

[waffledave]

Heh.. what's so wrong about the CBC? Maybe it's because I am more familiar with the French branch, but they are very bland in the middle to be quite frank.

They also do their fair share of investigation journalism which is becoming rarer.

The problem is these guys don't like reality. The CBC is very down the middle, they have a few talking heads but their reporting is very neutral. People who lean right hate them because they think the CBC is trying to shine a bad light on them. The reality is modern conservatism is so f***ing toxic and dysfunctional, and conservatives hate when this is pointed out to them. This is not to say all conservatives are bad. Some pretty bad apples though.

Alls I'm saying is if I'm at a protest and a neo Nazi comes up next to me with his swastika flag marching next to me... I'm not just going to ignore that. And let him march beside me. f*** that. He's becoming the focus of my protest. There are certain things we should all be united against. I mean come on, nazism kind of has to be a big f***ing line for all of us, no?

 

[Chadstudsky]

Except for, you know, the extra people that would die because they can't get proper care because our health system would get even more overloaded.
And we all want a return to normalcy. We're just waiting for the last 10-15% to do their part so it can become reality.

If 98% of the population gets their 2 shots can we go back to 2019 and drop the barcode check-in scans? What %age of boostered do we need to reach to preserve that? When they require a fourth, fifth and sixth dose do we need similar uptake? How many shots are you willing to take a year to retain your charter rights? As many as the government and pharma funded scientists recommend? Do you believe there may be a conflict of interest? Do you think there is an ethical dilemma in mandating a product with death as a possible side effect? Do you believe these shots work as initially advertised? How do you quantify risk of restrictions versus covid deaths? How many suicides, bankruptcies, school dropouts, business closures, under developed children etc are you willing to sacrifice to save on average an 84 year old with 3.9 comorbidities? Do you believe there are early treatments used around the world and that there are other ways to mitigate hospitalizations other than forced inoculations?

Personally I say enough is enough, but I love coming on here because I get to see different perspectives, everyone I know except my in laws are done with COVID!

 

[waffledave]

Neil Young is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else, but he made a pretty big miscalculation expecting Spotify to side with him over his ultimatum. This was a no brainer for them.

He was not trying to get them to side with him, he was trying to draw attention to the issue.

 

[Stoneburg]

Screw Neil Young, he should shut up. Guy used to be anti big corp's & gov, now he is 100% big corp & gov.
With Omicron being the dominate strain, vaccines have limited effect on it-per the CEO of Pfizer (before his video was pulled from youtube). Big pharma is now working on trials for a booster for Omicron now.

Didn't he say that two vaccines have limited effect? Maybe I am wrong.
Numerous studies show that three vaccines are very effective, and two vaccines are ~60% effective vs. Omicron. Ontario data shows that you have a 90% less chance of ending up in the ICU with the vaccines.
He has a Phd. in veterinarian science, until 2010 he was solely employed in veterinarian sciences, and thereafter he was employed as a senior executive.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

To be really frank, if I was his age with his amount of money and fame, I would probably do all kind of wacky shit too

I can't say much about Rogan in particular. I never listened to a whole show once. One of my very good friend loves him and made me listen to some samples and it was interesting.

I worry about people that believe some of the guests though if there is no one to refute wild claims. This previous poster, talked about Dr. Malone... I mean this man is brilliant, and he is a very charismatic speaker. But talks about governements not using "therapeutics " and thus endangering covid patients... this is conspiracy nut territory.

Anyway, I have a hard time debating this subject because I value free speech as much as I value factual data driven arguments . I always stand in the middle being very ambivalent.

I think open debate is great. Dr. Malone certainly has the credentials to talk about the vaccine. He was once well-regarded and then took his view on this and has been silenced. I find it interesting that you think a counter on the show to Malone would be a good idea, do you think a skeptic on the show when Dr. Fauci is talking is necessary? Honest question?

I don’t think there’s been much transparency or public debate. I don’t buy the idea that it would be harmful. If anything, if the skeptic is clearly wrong it would only make it more evident. I think that’s been missing to a very large degree. People are confused, they see ppls voice being silenced and it only gives them more reason to be sceptical.

I’m a UFC fan. I like Joe, he’s just having open conversation on a wide range of topics. Yes, he’s got some views or the pandemic that aren’t exactly popular. Silencing him is not the answer. That will only make people on the fringe have even more doubts. I know everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, stop the misinformation etc etc, it has unintended consequences imo. I’m not offended by Joe, I wouldn’t reach out to him for medical advice either.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

He was not trying to get them to side with him, he was trying to draw attention to the issue.

Well, maybe, maybe not. Do you think it worked? What I think is, those that are tuning into Rogan are going to say, f*** Neil Young, another one trying to silence Joe. In my opinion it will do the opposite of what Neil Young was hoping for. Those watching now aren’t leaving over Neil Young, no offense to him, but this is the reality, however, others that haven’t tuned into joe previously might now to see what the fuss is all about. I think he made a huge miscalculation here.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

If 98% of the population gets their 2 shots can we go back to 2019 and drop the barcode check-in scans? What %age of boostered do we need to reach to preserve that? When they require a fourth, fifth and sixth dose do we need similar uptake? How many shots are you willing to take a year to retain your charter rights? As many as the government and pharma funded scientists recommend? Do you believe there may be a conflict of interest? Do you think there is an ethical dilemma in mandating a product with death as a possible side effect? Do you believe these shots work as initially advertised? How do you quantify risk of restrictions versus covid deaths? How many suicides, bankruptcies, school dropouts, business closures, under developed children etc are you willing to sacrifice to save on average an 84 year old with 3.9 comorbidities? Do you believe there are early treatments used around the world and that there are other ways to mitigate hospitalizations other than forced inoculations?

Personally I say enough is enough, but I love coming on here because I get to see different perspectives, everyone I know except my in laws are done with COVID!

You're right. I also want my freedom back. f*** it if doctors and nurses get burnouts, they're not real people anyway. It's not like if the healthcare system crumbles that it won't affect everybody, young and old.

 

[waffledave]

Well, maybe, maybe not. Do you think it worked? What I think is those that are tuning into Rogan are going to say,

Everyone is talking about it, so yeah, kind of. And now Joni Mitchell yanked her music too. So it'll stay in the news a bit longer.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Everyone is talking about it, so yeah, kind of. And now Joni Mitchell yanked her music too. So it'll stay in the news a bit longer.

See my edited reply. This staying in the news longer benefits Rogan imo, not Neil Young.

 

[Licou]

The problem is these guys don't like reality. The CBC is very down the middle, they have a few talking heads but their reporting is very neutral. People who lean right hate them because they think the CBC is trying to shine a bad light on them. The reality is modern conservatism is so f***ing toxic and dysfunctional, and conservatives hate when this is pointed out to them. This is not to say all conservatives are bad. Some pretty bad apples though.

Alls I'm saying is if I'm at a protest and a neo Nazi comes up next to me with his swastika flag marching next to me... I'm not just going to ignore that. And let him march beside me. f*** that. He's becoming the focus of my protest. There are certain things we should all be united against. I mean cone on, nazism kind of has to be a big f***ing line for all of us, no?

This is a hard topic for me. So let me hop on mah' keyboard

My political formative years were not that long ago, in absolute, but looking at with right now, if feels like ages have passed since just before 9-11. Back then, to simplify, there were 2 different axes, social left and right (abortion, gay marriage, stuff like that) and economical left and right (no government deficits, social programs ect). People would mix and mash both of those axis.

Living in Quebec, my family was very economically conservative, and were kind of socially liberal, even though it always seemed like they had to become friend with a gay guy in order to stop saying they were gross . I always had respect for conservatives that were like that. Family people, loyal people... Yes they valued a strict social hierarchy, but they did so because they though it was best. Of course, that led some of them do be displeased with certain government spendings, including the CBC, because for them, it was just wasteful.

Quick word on the CBC: I love the idea of a public broadcaster. But I have many criticism against the CBC / Radio-Canada. I think they should be bolder with their content. They should invest is risky art a lot more. They have the advantage to not have to go for ad money, why not use it and broadcast interesting creative content to Canada? Anyway, I don't want to talk too much about this...

Where I am getting at is this: It seems that nowadays, these types of conservatives are rarer. It seems like today, if you espouse on idea of conservatism, you have to espouse ALL of them. It's like a package deal. I also feel like the same happens to the left. Everyone ends up defending all of the auxiliary ideas of the "general ideology" that they belong to, and they give up no middle ground at all. The art of discussion and debate seems to have totally disappeared from the public discourse...

I am reading what I just wrote and it just sounds like a word salad lol... Take it as you will.

 

[Chadstudsky]

You're right. I also want my freedom back. f*** it if doctors and nurses get burnouts, they're not real people anyway. It's not like if the healthcare system crumbles that it won't affect everybody, young and old.

You didn't answer any of my questions but I suspect you believe that 100% of the 5+ population getting three shots, and eventually a fourth and probably a fifth is how we go back to 2019, am I correct?

 

[Licou]

I think open debate is great. Dr. Malone certainly has the credentials to talk about the vaccine. He was once well-regarded and then took his view on this and has been silenced. I find it interesting that you think a counter on the show to Malone would be a good idea, do you think a skeptic on the show when Dr. Fauci is talking is necessary? Honest question?

I don’t think there’s been much transparency or public debate. I don’t buy the idea that it would be harmful. If anything, if the skeptic is clearly wrong it would only make it more evident. I think that’s been missing to a very large degree. People are confused, they see ppls voice being silenced and it only gives them more reason to be sceptical.

I’m a UFC fan. I like Joe, he’s just having open conversation on a wide range of topics. Yes, he’s got some views or the pandemic that aren’t exactly popular. Silencing him is not the answer. That will only make people on the fringe have even more doubts. I know everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, stop the misinformation etc etc, it has unintended consequences imo. I’m not offended by Joe, I wouldn’t reach out to him for medical advice either.

At the bolded: Did Fauci go on Rogan's show? That's pretty cool!

And to answer your question: Yes! Of course! Always!

But, and there is a big but D). I don't want to bash Rogan okay, he does his thing and that's fine. But when discussing scientific topics, it's important to bring an additional rigor that may not always be appropriate for a talk show podcast you know?

For example, you mention that Dr. Malone has credentials to talk about mRNA vaccines and he absolutely certainly does! But, credentials are not a substitute to actual science. Let me explain what I mean. Dr. Malone is credible because he partook in research that led to the introduction of mRNA vaccines to the market. But now, today, Dr. Malone is arguing against the covid mRNA vaccines and that's fine. But he never produced any peer reviewed papers. You can have all the credibility in the world, but in the science realm, you must show your stuff or get the hell out. Empirical data trumps credibility everyday of the week.

You wrote: "People are confused, they see ppls voice being silenced and it only gives them more reason to be sceptical. "

That's a really good point that I feel a lot of scientific minded people don't understand. There is *usually* a reason why some voices are "silenced" and it's because they propose outlandish hypothesizes without proper research. But in these cases, it should be important for science communicators to properly explain the reasons why some hypothesizes are cast aside. It has to be explained properly. And our governments have failed horribly at science communication during this pandemic.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

You're right. I also want my freedom back. f*** it if doctors and nurses get burnouts, they're not real people anyway. It's not like if the healthcare system crumbles that it won't affect everybody, young and old.

Lol, my wife is an RN, they are all vaccinated and many of them are also against the mandates and passports. Don’t play these games that if you’re against passports and mandates you don’t give a shit about Dr’s and nurses. It’s a bullshit narrative.

 

[Licou]

Lol, my wife is an RN, they are all vaccinated and many of them are also against the mandates and passports. Don’t play these games that if you’re against passports and mandates you don’t give a shit about Dr’s and nurses. It’s a bullshit narrative.

Dude, your wife is not real

 

[BehindTheTimes]

At the bolded: Did Fauci go on Rogan's show? That's pretty cool!

And to answer your question: Yes! Of course! Always!

But, and there is a big but D). I don't want to bash Rogan okay, he does his thing and that's fine. But when discussing scientific topics, it's important to bring an additional rigor that may not always be appropriate for a talk show podcast you know?

For example, you mention that Dr. Malone has credentials to talk about mRNA vaccines and he absolutely certainly does! But, credentials are not a substitute to actual science. Let me explain what I mean. Dr. Malone is credible because he partook in research that led to the introduction of mRNA vaccines to the market. But now, today, Dr. Malone is arguing against the covid mRNA vaccines and that's fine. But he never produced any peer reviewed papers. You can have all the credibility in the world, but in the science realm, you must show your stuff or get the hell out. Empirical data trumps credibility everyday of the week.

You wrote: "People are confused, they see ppls voice being silenced and it only gives them more reason to be sceptical. "

That's a really good point that I feel a lot of scientific minded people don't understand. There is *usually* a reason why some voices are "silenced" and it's because they propose outlandish hypothesizes without proper research. But in these cases, it should be important for science communicators to properly explain the reasons why some hypothesizes are cast aside. It has to be explained properly. And our governments have failed horribly at science communication during this pandemic.

Naw m, Fauci hasn’t gone on Rogan, but he does go on msm daily describing the pandemic response and has flip flopped 100 times. He even said that if you get vaccinated you won’t need to wear a mask or worry about catching Covid. He even went further and said that they are even very good against variants. We all know how that played out, where were his peer reviews studies to support these claims? What’s good for the goose. Why hasn’t anyone ever been on to challenge Fauci?

I also disagree that Malone hasn’t cited peer reviewed studies to support some of his claims. I believe this statement is false, but I’d have to check it out. I don’t like where this is going because it looks like I’m defending Dr.Malone’s conclusions and I’m not, only his ability to voice them.

Anyway, I believe in free speech and if this dr is flat out wrong or worse lying, having a conversation between both sides would likely remove all doubt. Downplaying his involvement in the research behind mRNA technology certainly shouldn’t give anyone added confidence.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Dude, your wife is not real

She’s just a fringe minority.

 

[Licou]

Naw m, Fauci hasn’t gone on Rogan, but he does go on msm daily describing the pandemic response and has flip flopped 100 times. He even said that if you get vaccinated you won’t need to wear a mask or worry about catching Covid. He even went further and said that they are even very good against variants. We all know how that played out, where were his peer reviews studies to support these claims? What’s good for the goose. Why hasn’t anyone ever been on to challenge Fauci?

I also disagree that Malone hasn’t cited peer reviewed studies to support some of his claims. I believe this statement is false, but I’d have to check it out. I don’t like where this is going because it looks like I’m defending Dr.Malone’s conclusions and I’m not, only his ability to voice them.

Anyway, I believe in free speech and if this dr is flat out wrong or worse lying, having a conversation between both sides would likely remove all doubt. Downplaying his involvement in the research behind mRNA technology certainly shouldn’t give anyone added confidence.

I don't want to defend the CDC's messaging too much because, quite frankly, I have not followed it much. I will just say that Dr. Fauci is a brilliant man that absolutely sucks in his current political role.

As for bringing counter arguments to Fauci on every "MSM" show (I consider Rogan to be MSM btw), well, there in lies the problem of the 30 second sound bite media. Of course, it should be rigorous, but unfortunately, nobody cares.

As for flip flopping: Well, I think it's very important to take into consideration that when this pandemic started, there was no data on covid, no established science. All we could base our decisions on, were suppositions based on previously established sciences for other circumstances. So, if we had proper science communication where we weren't talked at like we were children, maybe it would have been easier to understanding that some "flip flopping" is actually just normal science that is evolving as the data is coming in. It think this has been a huge failure all around.

As for vaccines and variants: If you want to discuss this at length, it would be my pleasure. I am not going to expand too much on this subject for the scope of this post, but still to this day, our vaccines are preventing many deaths and hospital stays, despite the fact that they do not provide as much sterilizing immunity. Of course, no promises should ever be made, in the realm of science. Especially when said science is evolving every day.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Lol, my wife is an RN, they are all vaccinated and many of them are also against the mandates and passports. Don’t play these games that if you’re against passports and mandates you don’t give a shit about Dr’s and nurses. It’s a bullshit narrative.

Most of them are for it. Shall I list all the people I know that work in the medical field to give me more credibility?
Don't worry, I won't because it won't give me any more credibility just like you saying your wife is a RN gives you any more credibility.

 

[Kriss E]

Screw Neil Young, he should shut up. Guy used to be anti big corp's & gov, now he is 100% big corp & gov.
I watched the Rogan interview with Dr Malone (along with 50M+ others) & not surprisingly it was labelled misinformation, but they don't pinpoint what was exactly misinformation. No one with that Dr's credentials can discredit what he said. Rogan did a good job of asking basic questions. People should actually watch the interview before condemning it. Most of the Dr's speaking up are against the hospitals & government suppressing the treatment of the people contracting covid. So many more people would have been saved had they been allowed to use therapeutics. Dr Malone's opinion is that kids under 12 should not be given this vaccine unless they have underlying health issues. Not what the government says. Sweden yesterday just banned the use of these vaccines for kids under 12 citing no benefit. He is vaccinated btw & has had covid.
They (Sweden) won't be the first or last to do so. With Omicron being the dominate strain, vaccines have limited effect on it-per the CEO of Pfizer (before his video was pulled from youtube). Big pharma is now working on trials for a booster for Omicron now. So what is the push vaccines on everyone with vaccine that has limited effectiveness on the new variant? All abut money & power. Trudeau wants full obedience. NO questions asked. I also recommend watching Senator Ron Johnson,video "Covid-a second opinion" for even more information regarding a vaccine that provides no immunity.
i also recommend a Montreal Lawyer on youtube, Viva Frei-has pretty good insight into issues.

He's not 100% big Corp, he's 100% follow the health experts during a worldwide pandemic.
Youd think that's a pretty unanimous opinion but unfortunately in 2022 that's controversial.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

referring to the "mainstream media" = immediate red flag

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

You didn't answer any of my questions but I suspect you believe that 100% of the 5+ population getting three shots, and eventually a fourth and probably a fifth is how we go back to 2019, am I correct?

Dead wrong. You are naive to believe we can go back to 2019 no matter what is done or not done. The damage is done and all we can do is minimize further damage.

 

[JJ68]

A freedom convoy run by a white supremacist...lol ok clowns. This was simply a false rage politisized event for people who selfishly want to have their cake and eat it too. You've got them pretending to be upset with this mandate, saying my body my choice etc, yet these right wingers in this thing want to stop women, some who were raped, from being able to make choices on having abortions.

I saw upside down flags....these right wingers are the same people who said a black man taking a knee was disrespectful to a flag.

Some of these people hate the idea of wearing masks citing the fact there is actually no law against not wearing one....yet for their entire lives have been ok with the fact that you sometimes have to abide by dress codes, wear shirts and shoes in stores or not be served, send kids to schools that send them home if they dont like the shirt or skirt they are wearing, have to dress up for certain establishments....i mean there are certain rules made up by people all the time and they've never said abything about their rights or freedoms before. They're just having an entitled temper tantrum now because they've been stoked by the extreme right. Over dramatic whiners talking about a communist, nazi nation. I mean give me a break.

You ahd enough freedome to freely protest todasy, Even though it was a complete clown show, you had that freedom to do so. If you wanna know what a true dictator country is like try protesting anything in russia, china or north korea and see what happens to you.

But yea, keep complaining about first world problems. That should have been temporary mind you but they arent because of these types of fools.

Dont trust science or doctors for the vaccine but listen to idiots online on some algternative website and trump supporters who witnessed that guy wondering if pouring javex or whatever ir was down youre throat might disinfect the body of the virus,. But then go to the hospital when you have to even though you have no faith in medicine apparently.

They talk about freedom for everyone. If that's true they better be ok with people from other lands bringing their own culture here and wearing whatever they want. After all, it's a free country. They better be ok with natives or minorites doing protests....and not thinking it's stupid or disrespectful.

I wonder if we flipped the narrative and acted like a alt right how they'd react....something like this....

"if you dont like it here, get the f*** out!"

 

[JJ68]

but also quick shout out to the much larger convoy of truckers doing their jobs this past week to deliver essential goods and keep our shelves well stocked. Thanks to those truckers.

 

[Miller Time]

Maybe we should be more "free" like south of the border...





I mean, whose really going to notice an extra 67,000 dead, right?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is done folks. Cool off and enjoy the NFL games tomorrow.