OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

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triggrman

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I believe it is 15 dead now at this nursing home. I saw a local East Tennessee paper report this as "killed". Interesting - Does "killed" imply "murder"? I am beginning to think so, in this case!

Murder in the 4th degree by Covid-19 and Governor Bill Lee!
Because Bill Lee gave them COVID? That might be the dumbest take I’ve seen so far
 

Armourboy

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Because Bill Lee gave them COVID? That might be the dumbest take I’ve seen so far
I love how the blame is always on the government, it's never those in charge of the organization/business that is at fault.

We can't protect people in our care unless the Governor tells us too! :facepalm:
 

101st_fan

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The reality is that retirement homes are hotspots of COVID deaths. The NY Times put the percentage at nearly 40% associated with such facilities. The patients combine existing illness and advanced age ... the workers are exposed to positive residents ... "standards" are far from standard across facilities. Then there are political decisions which only exacerbated those issues.

About 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes
 

triggrman

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The reality is that retirement homes are hotspots of COVID deaths. The NY Times put the percentage at nearly 40% associated with such facilities. The patients combine existing illness and advanced age ... the workers are exposed to positive residents ... "standards" are far from standard across facilities. Then there are political decisions which only exacerbated those issues.

About 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes
so it’s not Bill Lee’s fault?
Must be Trumps fault
 

Armourboy

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I believe the last stat I heard was that half of deaths in Tennessee were from nursing homes. How these facilities haven't figured it out yet is beyond me.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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How would you go about safeguarding nursing homes?

Basically, you have to have controls to make sure all your employees who go in and out are kept "clean" of Covid. And you can't have any other visitors coming in and out, i.e. no family visits etc.

So the second part at least is doable. Hang the "NO VISITORS" signs and tell everybody they have to talk to their relatives by phone, zoom chats, whatever. Nobody wants to follow that because everybody thinks they're immune and it shouldn't apply to them, but whatever, you could lock things down to outside visitors despite any such protestations if you really wanted to. And if the residents didn't like it, there's the door, feel free to move out and go live with your relatives instead.

Now how do you handle the first part? Well, the employees basically need to be isolated from the rest of society too, don't they? They can't just mingle with the rest of the population that is only haphazardly paying any attention to the pandemic. And you can't just put them on the honor system, because just like the rest of that population, half of them will ignore guidelines whenever they feel it doesn't suit their mood or slightly inconveniences them. So you basically have to bubble them and test them every day, just like the NHL players in Edmonton say. And that's not cheap. And they won't like it, so you probably have to offer them some kind of additional incentive (e.g. hazard pay) to live with that situation and stay on the job.

So now that you've determined you have to lock out all visitors and have to expensively bubble your staff, how do you afford to do that? You've got a business model where you pay your staff x, the resident's pay y in rent, you get profit z, etc. Do you jack up your fees? Now some residents can't afford to stay there anymore and they're tossed out the door into the swirl of Covid. Do you go into the red until you go out of business? That's not how the industry works.

So yeah, at that point you need government to step in and bail you out with some subsidies. And if they aren't doing that... well, it's not going to fix itself.
 

triggrman

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So the government needs to bail out the 11 million unemployed, hospitals, give free health care, do more with police training, clamp down on the use of fossil fuels, bail out the entire entertainment industry, bail out the ltc facilities (which are profitable btw, give checks to stimulate the economy, add more infrastructure to our school systems technology, bail out renters and homeowners, small businesses, and restaurants.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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So the government needs to bail out the 11 million unemployed, hospitals, give free health care, do more with police training, clamp down on the use of fossil fuels, bail out the entire entertainment industry, bail out the ltc facilities (which are profitable btw, give checks to stimulate the economy, add more infrastructure to our school systems technology, bail out renters and homeowners, small businesses, and restaurants.
Exactly.

Well that or let people suffer, die, go hungry, get beaten, etc. Which seems to be the preferred option at the moment.
 

adsfan

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I love how the blame is always on the government, it's never those in charge of the organization/business that is at fault.

We can't protect people in our care unless the Governor tells us too! :facepalm:

Here in Wisconsin, it is the fault of the government!

Robin Vos (R) Rochester (the Speaker of our State Assembly) and Scott Fitzgerald (R) Podunkville (the Wisconsin State Senate Leader) are public health enemies #1 and #2. They convened the state legislature at the request of Governor Tony Evers (D). After 30 seconds, they banged the gavel and told everybody to go home. That was the first time our state legislature met in six months. Vos is running for re-election. Fitzgerald is running for the US House of Representatives and will probably win in his gerrymandered Congressional district.

By intentionally doing nothing during this pandemic because of political reasons, they are killing people. The former peak was May 27th with 22 deaths. On July 11, it was 4 deaths. On September 3oth, we had 26 deaths and on October 13th we had 33 deaths. The current death total is 1,588. The state Republicans have spent over $2M fighting the various public health measures that Gov Evers has tried to put in place. They claim to be fighting for our freedom(s), but I believe that they are fighting to kill off people like Joseph Stalin did in the Soviet Union. They could defend their position(s) and inaction, but neither one is speaking to the state media these days.

Their negligence is resulting in an extended and enlarging pandemic in this state. The Republican Party was founded in Wisconsin. I believe that it will begin to die here too. That is a shame, because the two party system has worked pretty well most of the time. The last ten years or so, it has become dysfunctional because extremists on both sides want it that way. I have not figured out how to become an extremist of the middle, but we need to get some of these do nothing politicians out of office! That is why we have elections. (BTW: I would not be surprised if the Republicans split into two parties. Call them the McCains and the Trumps for the lack of better terms at this time. There may be some re-alignment of the Democrats and pickups from some of the third parties before it is over.)

I can look out for myself and my family. There is a limit to what I as an employee and citizen can do. So far, 8.2 million people, 2.5% of the US population, has had a case of COVID-19, with 220K dead. How much is enough?

The people in the nursing homes can't look out for themselves or they would not be there. The owners want to minimize spending to maximize the profits that they make. Greed overcomes common sense, but my guess is that most owners aren't making that much money off of our government for their sometimes indigent residents. The elderly are also the most likely to die from COVID-19. Maybe we will get some nursing home reform, but I am not holding my breath over that one happening in my life time. See do nothing politicians above.

wisconsin covid deaths - Google Search
 
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Armourboy

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I can look out for myself and my family. There is a limit to what I as an employee and citizen can do. So far, 8.2 million people, 2.5% of the US population, has had a case of COVID-19, with 220K dead. How much is enough?
220,000 people are a drop in the bucket. It's a cold, heartless take but it is the reality. When compared to 330 million, its essentially nothing.
 

Armourboy

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Jan 20, 2014
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Shelbyville, TN
So the government needs to bail out the 11 million unemployed, hospitals, give free health care, do more with police training, clamp down on the use of fossil fuels, bail out the entire entertainment industry, bail out the ltc facilities (which are profitable btw, give checks to stimulate the economy, add more infrastructure to our school systems technology, bail out renters and homeowners, small businesses, and restaurants.
Peoples kids and grandkids in this country are going to be standing around paying for the messes of this generation and the ones prior and the sad reality is very few seem to care.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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And I’m sure your candidate will fix it all with raising taxes
That's one way. If you were going to stay status quo on all other expenditures, anyway. But should you stay status quo on all things when the world around you is changing and not staying status quo?

Some candidates also pay more taxes than others. If you are worried about your own taxes going up, ask yourself why you should be the one to pay for it all when there are many elements of society with far greater means than you who pay disproportionately less tax than you do. Why is it all on your back? I'm sure you live a comfortable and perhaps even luxurious lifestyle and could nevertheless easily afford to pay far more tax than you do also. Most of us here do. But there are other elements of society that are taking advantage of us on that front. There's no shortage of money available to do all of the things mentioned. But it's not being distributed that way. It won't be with one candidate, and it won't be with another either. But it's there. And in a time of crisis in particular, why lock yourself into a status quo method for distributing it?

So yeah, there is a failure of governance going on. You can't just say that Nursing Homes Are A Problem and they should bankrupt themselves to look after their residents, and walk away from it if they don't. Because we absolutely have the means to help them get through this temporary situation. If anybody actually had a real desire to do so. One side has no desire whatsoever and doesn't hide it, and the other side may pretend to be more sympathetic but ultimately has no practical desire to do it either. What's going to happen is we're about to transition from unapologetic/oblivious failure into something that is only a more sugarcoated version of failure. But it'll still be failure. And it's because everybody is locked into "hurr durr but my taxes!" - at all levels. Just another aspect of the same individual selfishness that permeates this society.

In the end, it's just going to be cheaper to let 500,000 people in nursing homes die. They would have died anyway within a few years, after all. And no matter how much one side ignores it or the other side sugarcoats it, it's the same calculation that will ultimately be applied by both sides.
 
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adsfan

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220,000 people are a drop in the bucket. It's a cold, heartless take but it is the reality. When compared to 330 million, its essentially nothing.

We ain't done son. It will get worse before it gets better. It would not surprise me to hit half a mil dead in the US.

I hope that it doesn't become 2 or 3 million dead.

South Korea has 444 dead out of 51 million population.

If the US population was like that, we would have 2873 dead in this country. We are doing something wrong!
 

101st_fan

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We ain't done son. It will get worse before it gets better. It would not surprise me to hit half a mil dead in the US.

I hope that it doesn't become 2 or 3 million dead.

South Korea has 444 dead out of 51 million population.

If the US population was like that, we would have 2873 dead in this country. We are doing something wrong!

That is if you trust their publicly released numbers. South Korea's test numbers show less than 1.5 million cumulative tests conducted over the past four months ... their official death total puts the number at somewhere around 100 dead across the past eight months.

Attribution of death matters with a virus that hits the already sick very hard ... was it COVID or cancer, COVID or existing coronary issues, COVID or existing respiratory issues? That's just hitting three of the most common existing issues among the 94% of US COVID deaths with comorbidities listed ... an average of 2.6 each according to the CDC.
 

PredsV82

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That is if you trust their publicly released numbers. South Korea's test numbers show less than 1.5 million cumulative tests conducted over the past four months ... their official death total puts the number at somewhere around 100 dead across the past eight months.

Attribution of death matters with a virus that hits the already sick very hard ... was it COVID or cancer, COVID or existing coronary issues, COVID or existing respiratory issues? That's just hitting three of the most common existing issues among the 94% of US COVID deaths with comorbidities listed ... an average of 2.6 each according to the CDC.

Uh, we've gone over this before. If you are alive with cancer or heart disease or respiratory illness, and you catch COVID and die, you died due to COVID
 
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