OT: COVID-19 general thread (read OP, post #841)

[GameSeven]

What can I say? I made an account so I could ignore posters. Tried not to look in here and usually I'd just ignore but I peeked in here and saw a lot of Sinophobia.

Critique of the CCP is not Sinophobic any more than critique of the US Gov is Ameriphobic. And both probably equally based on partial truths and misinformation. Come on now...

 

[BenedictGomez]

I dont know what it is, maybe he's doing it to set himself up as a hero when NY cant possibly hit his dire predictions, but it's killing the market.

Yesterday after he said, "only 20% of patients going on a ventilator survive", and after that the stock market took an absolute dump. And I'd like to see somebody VERIFY that, because I dont believe it.

Just like (a bunch of pages back) I said I dont believe him how he says New York will need 30,000 ventilators, which also panicked the market, and FWIW, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be right on that unless New York descends into apocalypse the next few days. All of Wall Street is watching his daily update, and you can see the S&P 500 go lower as he speaks. If it's factual info, so be it, we need the truth, but if it's not, he's killing people's 401ks, which can have long-term repurcussions.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Critique of the CCP is not Sinophobic any more than critique of the US Gov is Ameriphobic. And both probably equally based on partial truths and misinformation. Come on now...

Exactly. I haven't seen any posts in here blaming or hating the people of China, everything is pointed at their government.

 

[OxheadHorseface]

I'm obviously Chinese-American. Born and raised in NJ and currently living in the south. As what the locals call a "yankee foreigner", I hate guns but I'm shopping for one now. The 24-7 hate barrage against China is in my opinion so quickly and readily believed by many Americans because of underlying Sinophobia. There's some Red Scare mixed in too but some of it is racism.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I'm obviously Chinese-American. Born and raised in NJ and currently living in the south. As what the locals call a "yankee foreigner", I hate guns but I'm shopping for one now. The 24-7 hate barrage against China is in my opinion so quickly and readily believed by many Americans because of underlying Sinophobia. There's some Red Scare mixed in too but some of it is racism.

The media & people in this thread are not racist, it's anti Communist China, and it has nothing to do with Chinese people, who, in case you're not aware, cannot buy guns due to that Communist dictatorship.

 

[Call Me Al]

surely you are aware of the rise of hate crimes against asian americans around the country

 

[BahlDeep]

surely you are aware of the rise of hate crimes against asian americans around the country

That's because people are ignorant and cannot make the nuance

 

[NJDevs26]

Enough posting junk Twitter feeds and sources, posting biased fringe randos as proof of anything is no more acceptable now than it is during a trade deadline.

 

[Call Me Al]

i wouldn't agree that it's because of an underlying sinophobia as much as it is needing someone else to blame

 

[Call Me Al]

also for all the crying about china's numbers and the WHO, US intelligence knew about the virus in December and were warning about a possible pandemic by January. it's not China's or the WHO's fault that the US didn't make the necessary preparations.

 

[BahlDeep]

also for all the crying about china's numbers and the WHO, US intelligence knew about the virus in December and were warning about a possible pandemic by January. it's not China's or the WHO's fault that the US didn't make the necessary preparations.

 

[Call Me Al]

and one week later, still in january, they locked down multiple cities and canceled the lunar new year. nothing i said was wrong. we also had cases in the us by then

 

[OxheadHorseface]

i wouldn't agree that it's because of an underlying sinophobia as much as it is needing someone else to blame

You know that I hope that you are right because that means it's not a "masks off" moment and will pass after this crisis passes. I'm just pessimistic. I see things getting worse if China becomes more of a global influence and the US recedes. May you live in interesting times is indeed a curse. I worry for my son's generation.

 

[Devils731]

and one week later, still in january, they locked down multiple cities and canceled the lunar new year. nothing i said was wrong. we also had cases in the us by then

China didn’t lock down their entire nation and it was ravaging them so it would be unlikely the world who wasn’t yet affected by it to lockdown.

Imagine telling your country we need to lock everything down for 4+ months to prevent something that hasn’t happened yet? It may be smart but it also would be unfeasible. We had politicians upset about light restrictions of movement at that point.

 

[Call Me Al]

China didn’t lock down their entire nation and it was ravaging them so it would be unlikely the world who wasn’t yet affected by it to lockdown.

Imagine telling your country we need to lock everything down for 4+ months to prevent something that hasn’t happened yet? It may be smart but it also would be unfeasible. We had politicians upset about light restrictions of movement at that point.

we didn't need to lockdown the country at that point. but we could have stocked up on enough medical supplies for our front lines and made sure that there would be a coordinated effort to deal with outbreaks as they happened. there could have been a lot more behind the scenes preparation to deal with it in addition to a public campaign that was honest and upfront about the risks and threat to the population as far as we understood it

 

[NJDevs26]

We’ve tried to be somewhat lenient here but if you guys can’t veer this discussion back to the actual virus and what’s going on at home or at least stop taking shots at each other and leave politics off the board we might have to lock this thread or start giving people vacations

 

[BenedictGomez]

That's because people are ignorant and cannot make the nuance

Or perhaps it's total BS to begin with. I have no idea, but I do know in the broader context that's true.

The "hate crimes" have been rising in America the last few years thing you keep hearing about isnt true, it's just that crimes are literally being "classified" more as "hate crimes" than in the past, as well as the fact fewer are going unreported to begin with.

Essentially the pre & post data cohorts get biased with increased public awareness and/or classification of crime. That all makes a helluva lot more sense than believing all-of-a-sudden people got bigoted out of nowhere, unless you really want to believe that.

reported incidents, which are often reflected in the FBI data, have increased, while unreported incidents decreased by 40 percent from 2014 to 2017.

PolitiFact - Explaining the numbers behind the rise in reported hate crimes

 

[BenedictGomez]

and one week later, still in january, they locked down multiple cities and canceled the lunar new year. nothing i said was wrong. we also had cases in the us by then

Yes, it is. Obviously.

Health experts on multiple continents explicitly state that China covering this up put the entire planet behind the 8-ball in terms of losing many weeks of preparation, as well as it misinformed global leaders on the entire planet in terms of "how bad is this" and what needs to be done.

Have you seen how AWFUL this is in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Iran, Switzerland, Belgium, and-I-could-go-on?

Do you really think ALL their government's health agencies are completely incompetent?!?!?!

 

[NJDevs26]

i wouldn't agree that it's because of an underlying sinophobia as much as it is needing someone else to blame

The latter exacerbates the former. There are selfish reasons for needing someone to blame but again that’s going toward the third rail. The point is criticizing the Chinese government as an entity shouldn’t be conflated with the actual sinophobia going on.

 

[OxheadHorseface]

Yes, it is. Obviously.

Health experts on multiple continents explicitly state that China covering this up put the entire planet behind the 8-ball in terms of losing many weeks of preparation, as well as it misinformed global leaders on the entire planet in terms of "how bad is this" and what needs to be done.

Have you seen how AWFUL this is in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Iran, Switzerland, Belgium, and-I-could-go-on?

Do you really think ALL their government's health agencies are completely incompetent?!?!?!

I probably would say that they are incompetent compared to Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan at least.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I probably would say that they are incompetent compared to Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan at least.

South Korea prepared for this intelligently over a decade ago. We should have too.

As for Japan, I just saw something on the news that they've pretty much done everything "wrong", worse than most of Europe & America, (they havent even closed down karoke parlors & are still mass gathering) yet they have few deaths, and people dont know why, but are hypothesizing it might be due to the fact that culturally everyone's wearing masks.

If so, that would be another CDC screw-up, because they told us masks should only be for medical personnel and/or the sick.

Japan struggles to get a grip on social distancing | The Japan Times

 

[NJDevs26]

To be fair we don’t even have enough masks readily available FOR the professionals, so having the public make an early run on them would have only exacerbated that issue and people trying to price gouge on eBay.

 

[Call Me Al]

Yes, it is. Obviously.

Health experts on multiple continents explicitly state that China covering this up put the entire planet behind the 8-ball in terms of losing many weeks of preparation, as well as it misinformed global leaders on the entire planet in terms of "how bad is this" and what needs to be done.

Have you seen how AWFUL this is in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Iran, Switzerland, Belgium, and-I-could-go-on?

Do you really think ALL their government's health agencies are completely incompetent?!?!?!

it's not China's or the WHO's fault that we disbanded our pandemic team, spread misinformation to the public about the severity or downplayed the virus, failed to stock up on the necessary equipment or have a plan in place to coordinate a response among all 50 states, SOMETHING WE STILL DON"T HAVE. give me a break. im no scientist but even i could pinpoint the mistakes that were being made in real time. china's screw up doesn't absolve any of that.

 

[Call Me Al]

even if we didn't *know* it spread from person to person, you're saying yourself that we shouldn't trust china's numbers. I agree. why didn't we investigate that ourselves? why didn't we prepare for the possibility that those numbers could be misleading? that's a failure of preparedness that can't be passed off to another country or organization

 

[Call Me Al]

The latter exacerbates the former. There are selfish reasons for needing someone to blame but again that’s going toward the third rail. The point is criticizing the Chinese government as an entity shouldn’t be conflated with the actual sinophobia going on.

agreed 100%, i'm just saying that if it could just as easily be another ethnic group or country standing in for this if the virus came from somewhere else, not necessarily an underlying anti-asian sentiment among the population