Covid-19 and rec/minor hockey

shoeshine boy

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Aug 14, 2008
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my adult league (independent, not run by a rink) just announced that we'll restart 6/22. we had about 8 games left plus playoffs. everyone who chooses t0 play has to sign a waiver stating that if they contract COVID they can't sue the league.
some friends have said they won't play for awhile. no refunds if you decide not to play, mainly because as an independent league we can't afford to lose money.
 

BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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I heard yesterday that one of our public rinks will have fairly strict measures in place when they re-open. Best case is the rinks will re-open in mid-July based on the time-frame outlined by our government.

No spectators or parents allowed inside
No access to dressing rooms whatsoever
Players are expected to arrive no earlier than 10 mins. prior to their ice session
Players are expected to remove their skates and leave immediately afterwards
Players must provide their own water bottle
Players are expected to arrive fully dressed with the exception of skates/helmets/gloves
Players will be given a chair inside the rink to tie their skates. The chairs will be adequately spaced apart to enforce physical distancing
After each 1 hour session, the rink will be closed for the following 1 hour for sanitation, effectively cutting the available ice-slots in half

Will be interesting to see if the local government imposes these same regulations on the private rinks in the area. Our amateur hockey community is made-up of a mish-mash of publicly-owned and privately-operated rink. It's pretty much monkey-see, monkey-do around here in regards to governmental regulations, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are made the regulations across the board, which may put more than one private rink out of business and this area was already hurting for ice surfaces. A consultant recommended in 2008 that we needed at least 4 new ice surfaces moving forward to meet the demand and thus far we got zero.

Not to mention the available time slots cut in half. Who decides which groups are going to get the short-end of the stick and lose their weekly time-slots? Many groups may have played their last games as their slot simply won't be available moving forward.
 
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TheBluePenguin

Registered User
Apr 15, 2015
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St Louis
I heard yesterday that one of our public rinks will have fairly strict measures in place when they re-open. Best case is the rinks will re-open in mid-July based on the time-frame outlined by our government.

No spectators or parents allowed inside
No access to dressing rooms whatsoever
Players are expected to arrive no earlier than 10 mins. prior to their ice session
Players are expected to remove their skates and leave immediately afterwards
Players must provide their own water bottle
Players are expected to arrive fully dressed with the exception of skates/helmets/gloves
Players will be given a chair inside the rink to tie their skates. The chairs will be adequately spaced apart to enforce physical distancing
After each 1 hour session, the rink will be closed for the following 1 hour for sanitation, effectively cutting the available ice-slots in half

Will be interesting to see if the local government imposes these same regulations on the private rinks in the area. Our amateur hockey community is made-up of a mish-mash of publicly-owned and privately-operated rink. It's pretty much monkey-see, monkey-do around here in regards to governmental regulations, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are made the regulations across the board, which may put more than one private rink out of business and this area was already hurting for ice surfaces. A consultant recommended in 2008 that we needed at least 4 new ice surfaces moving forward to meet the demand and thus far we got zero.

Not to mention the available time slots cut in half. Who decides which groups are going to get the short-end of the stick and lose their weekly time-slots? Many groups may have played their last games as their slot simply won't be available moving forward.

My local rink was going to the exact same thing for the most part, we will see when I get the email with final rules, but yeah players being fully geared except skates and the were going to allow goalies to get dressed at the rink
 

shoeshine boy

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
756
123
last night I played for the first time since mid-March. one of our rinks put together a shinny for our league's Board of Directors.
the rink required a face mask and took my temp before allowing me in the building. in the locker rooms, spots are designated and 6 feet apart. same on the bench.now, after having played, here are my thoughts: social distancing in ice hockey is NOT possible. this rink is doing all they can to minimize exposure. Everyone was good about staying in their spot in the locker room but once you’re on the ice that all goes out the window. There were 4 players on our bench but too often we were closer than 6 feet apart. I don’t see how it will work with as many as 12 on a bench. Right now the most useful precaution being taken by the rink is the temp check at the door. I don’t know yet what my decision will be in 3 weeks when our league resumes but anyone playing hockey right now ANYWHERE needs to accept that contracting COVID is a possibility.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,272
19,348
last night I played for the first time since mid-March. one of our rinks put together a shinny for our league's Board of Directors.
the rink required a face mask and took my temp before allowing me in the building. in the locker rooms, spots are designated and 6 feet apart. same on the bench.now, after having played, here are my thoughts: social distancing in ice hockey is NOT possible. this rink is doing all they can to minimize exposure. Everyone was good about staying in their spot in the locker room but once you’re on the ice that all goes out the window. There were 4 players on our bench but too often we were closer than 6 feet apart. I don’t see how it will work with as many as 12 on a bench. Right now the most useful precaution being taken by the rink is the temp check at the door. I don’t know yet what my decision will be in 3 weeks when our league resumes but anyone playing hockey right now ANYWHERE needs to accept that contracting COVID is a possibility.

I highly suspect the virus was all around us for many months before the rinks shut down.

Not saying any of the rules are wrong, just saying that I suspect the big difference now is many of us are going to be aware of it and paranoid when we return back to our local sheets.
 
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SJGoalie32

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Apr 7, 2007
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488
TealTown, USA
I don’t know yet what my decision will be in 3 weeks when our league resumes but anyone playing hockey right now ANYWHERE needs to accept that contracting COVID is a possibility.

I do not know yet either.

Our rinks haven't made any announcements about returning yet, but I have thought about what it would mean, the risks, the unknown levels of exposure, and what am I risking bringing home to my wife and kids and other family and co-workers for this. That will create a ton of anxiety, each and every game night.

I play on two teams. For the team I skate on as a forward, I actually feel a bit more in control and perhaps willing to take the risk. Even though I probably end up nearer to people and breathing the air more closely, I feel like I have greater control over where I skate/sit, etc. It's probably a false sense of security that is not at all supported by science, but still. I can at least pick and choose which games I attend, particularly as the second and third waves of the virus hit, or if there was a recent outbreak among my office or family. I have far more freedom to decide whether I feel like going to a particular game or not.

But for the team I am a goaltender on, I have a lot less choice. I can't just choose on a night-by-night basis whether I want to go to a game or not. My entire team--and frankly, BOTH teams--depend on me being there. The league depends on 2 goalies at every game.

If 20% of the skaters bail on a night's slate of games you just roll with 8 skaters instead of 10. If 20% of the goalies opt out, 2 out of every 5 games will have to be forfeit, and you don't have a functional league. That is a LOT more pressure.

It's hard enough under the best of circumstances to wrangle a backup goalie on a couple days' notice. It's going to be even harder now under these ever-changing public safety conditions. If I skip a game out of safety concerns, or because I have a cold, I'm just asking someone else to assume my safety risk.....or vice versa, as I'm sure there will be a lot of others who bail. Maybe I'm willing to play goalie once a week. Will I be pressured into going to 2-3 times a week? Exposing my family to this for each instance to cover for other goalies who back out for their safety concerns?

My wife has always supported my rec league habit and had no problems with me filling in when someone called and asked me to sub on short notice. This is going to be so much different. Every game I go to in the middle of a pandemic is going to present a greater health risk to the entire family, in a way that my past seasons never did. I don't generally need her permission to agree to be a sub goalie. I might need her permission now. And if I say no to a team to protect my family, the game might have to be forfeit.

My team captain already inquired about my willingness to return. I didn't think too much about it at first, agreeing to play whenever the time comes that the league re-opens (probably not for a couple months). But our seasons are 22 games long, and the team relies upon goalies to be there. I am effectively agreeing to commit to showing up to games 6 months from now, in December....with no idea what this pandemic will look like even just a week or two from now. But if I say no, if I take any sort of cautious approach to my status, then the team will need to replace me, and I may not get my spot back the following season or two, once this is over.

It's complicated
 

shoeshine boy

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
756
123
I highly suspect the virus was all around us for many months before the rinks shut down.

is it possible? sure but there's absolutely no proof of that. if the virus came from 1 place (Wuhan) then it's more likely that most people's exposure to the virus was/is very limited and not even possible until February or March. I've heard of people guessing that it could've been out of Wuhan as early as late 2019 but I have yet to see any evidence. I hear a lot of people say things like, "my mother's cousin's sister's husband was really, really sick in December. I bet it was COVID!" but it's more likely that was "another" Corona virus or even just the good ol' fashioned flu.
I don't know anyone personally who has contracted COVID19. my smallest degree of separation is the boss of my team captain. I haven't been in the same space as my captain since mid-March (and he's been WFH the entire time) so I'm certainly not worried about catching it from him.
my SO and I have almost zero risk factors so even if I do contract COVID, I feel good about my chances of recovery. I have 1 teammate that is mid-60's, cancer survivor and had pneumonia last year yet he says he's going to play. I think that's nuts but certainly his choice.
I think right now my decision is to let others be the first through the wall. if after a few weeks there's been no fallout from all these crazy hockey players breathing all over each other, then I'll start playing again. :)
 

Yukon Joe

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Aug 3, 2011
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So my kid is signed up for a once a week hockey training over the summer.

First of all the rink is located on a First Nation reserve, so it's exempt from provincial regulations. But even still, it'll a max of 10 kids on the ice and he has to show up with all of his gear on save his skates.
 

shoeshine boy

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
756
123
The latest news about the virus shows there really is no reason not to play, nor was there ever a reason to shut it all down.
Go have fun

do you have a link? Too often these days people spread things they saw on Facebook and Twitter as gospel-truth news. Infection rates in cold places such as meat packing plants (though likely more crowded) would imply that it’s not “completely safe” to play hockey. Why Meatpacking Plants Have Become Covid-19 Hot Spots

that said, IMO, as long as there’s not a hot spot where a rink is located and as long as the rink takes cleaning/disinfecting seriously (this would be the issue at one of our rinks) I don’t see an issue with hockey coming back but know that if someone there has COVID, symptomatic or not, others there could end up getting sick. the more you know.....
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
34,272
19,348
is it possible? sure but there's absolutely no proof of that. if the virus came from 1 place (Wuhan) then it's more likely that most people's exposure to the virus was/is very limited and not even possible until February or March. I've heard of people guessing that it could've been out of Wuhan as early as late 2019 but I have yet to see any evidence. I hear a lot of people say things like, "my mother's cousin's sister's husband was really, really sick in December. I bet it was COVID!" but it's more likely that was "another" Corona virus or even just the good ol' fashioned flu.
I don't know anyone personally who has contracted COVID19. my smallest degree of separation is the boss of my team captain. I haven't been in the same space as my captain since mid-March (and he's been WFH the entire time) so I'm certainly not worried about catching it from him.
my SO and I have almost zero risk factors so even if I do contract COVID, I feel good about my chances of recovery. I have 1 teammate that is mid-60's, cancer survivor and had pneumonia last year yet he says he's going to play. I think that's nuts but certainly his choice.
I think right now my decision is to let others be the first through the wall. if after a few weeks there's been no fallout from all these crazy hockey players breathing all over each other, then I'll start playing again. :)

There is a lot of speculation the virus was spreading in Aug-Oct in Wuhan.

Harvard just released a study suggesting there was a major increase in traffic at Wuhan hospitals and searches for Coronavirus like symptoms around that time frame.

China of course denies it. Shocking.

I have little doubt the virus was circulating in NA in mid to late January.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...-was-already-spreading-in-us-in-january-study

The rinks we use and a ton of ones I know of didn’t close until the first or second week of March.

So I feel pretty strongly that many of us were being exposed to some degree at our local sheets before they shut them down.

I’m in agreement with you being cautious though.

Again, my only point is I’m 99% sure most of us were already in rinks with the virus... the only difference for those who choose to go back now, is they know there is a risk.
 

Goodforyoursoul

Registered User
May 17, 2013
133
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do you have a link? Too often these days people spread things they saw on Facebook and Twitter as gospel-truth news. Infection rates in cold places such as meat packing plants (though likely more crowded) would imply that it’s not “completely safe” to play hockey. Why Meatpacking Plants Have Become Covid-19 Hot Spots

that said, IMO, as long as there’s not a hot spot where a rink is located and as long as the rink takes cleaning/disinfecting seriously (this would be the issue at one of our rinks) I don’t see an issue with hockey coming back but know that if someone there has COVID, symptomatic or not, others there could end up getting sick. the more you know.....

Just search:
Asymptomatic people don’t spread it (the entire reason for locking down)
Corona virus weakening
Death rate predictions wrong by up to 15x
Fauci (this guy is a liar and/or a fraud. The amount of times he’s flip flopped and contradicted himself...)
Hospitals PAID to record corona as cause of death with increasing money for using ventilators (untold inflated death numbers)
And cmon, 2 weeks ago you’d be arrested for going to church or opening your business but protesters are apparently immune?

If your rink opens, Go have fun
If you feel vulnerable, stay home.
If you’re looking for complete safety you’ll never find it.
 

Yukon Joe

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Aug 3, 2011
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Again, my only point is I’m 99% sure most of us were already in rinks with the virus... the only difference for those who choose to go back now, is they know there is a risk.

They've done antibody testing. Unless if you live in NYC, you were almost certainly not exposed to coronavirus last winter.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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They've done antibody testing. Unless if you live in NYC, you were almost certainly not exposed to coronavirus last winter.

Last winter? Ie Nov-December? Likely not.

January, they have documented cases of it being in the US... Canada, not as familiar with their numbers.

It was most certainly within the US by mid Jan, which means most of us going to our local rinks and travel rinks were definitely at risk.

Did you already have coronavirus in January or February? | Live Science

It is now clear that the first cases of community spread in the United States weren't in late February, but instead were in January, when only travel-related cases were being caught and reported.

Testing was and remains abysmal in the States, so we would be naive to think this virus wasn’t in any of our rinks before they shut them down in mid March.
 
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Yukon Joe

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Last winter? Ie Nov-December? Likely not.

January, they have documented cases of it being in the US... Canada, not as familiar with their numbers.

It was most certainly within the US by mid Jan, which means most of us going to our local rinks and travel rinks were definitely at risk.

Did you already have coronavirus in January or February? | Live Science



Testing was and remains abysmal in the States, so we would be naive to think this virus wasn’t in any of our rinks before they shut them down in mid March.

Circulating doesn't mean widely spreading.

They've been doing antibody testing. If you show up as positive for Covid antibodies that means you previously were infected. Testing in NYC showed something like 20-25% of people had previously come down with Covid. But in the wider country the rate was only 1-2% - which is within the error rate for the antibody test itself.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Circulating doesn't mean widely spreading.

They've been doing antibody testing. If you show up as positive for Covid antibodies that means you previously were infected. Testing in NYC showed something like 20-25% of people had previously come down with Covid. But in the wider country the rate was only 1-2% - which is within the error rate for the antibody test itself.

They have barely tested most of the US for antibodies, and the tests still aren’t reliable:

Discussing the Need for Reliable Antibody Testing for COVID-19

Among New Coronavirus Antibody Tests, Limited Value and Many Unknowns

So no one can make the claim the virus wasn’t widely circulating when the testing measures were, and continue to be an issue.

Again, we have seen how quickly clusters of the virus spread and it’s pretty much been confirmed the virus was circulating in the US in Jan.

It naive to think the virus just happened to start spreading widely when the US govt finally got serious about testing.
 

Yukon Joe

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They have barely tested most of the US for antibodies, and the tests still aren’t reliable:

Discussing the Need for Reliable Antibody Testing for COVID-19

Among New Coronavirus Antibody Tests, Limited Value and Many Unknowns

So no one can make the claim the virus wasn’t widely circulating when the testing measures were, and continue to be an issue.

Again, we have seen how quickly clusters of the virus spread and it’s pretty much been confirmed the virus was circulating in the US in Jan.

It naive to think the virus just happened to start spreading widely when the US govt finally got serious about testing.

The tests aren't reliable enough on a personal level. You can't say "oh I had a positive antibody test that means I'm immune". But they are reliable enough on a population level.

We know the virus wasn't widely spreading because we didn't have lots of dead bodies. The death rate still appears to be around 1%. Places like New York or Milan had lots of dead bodies - so many so they had to get those refrigerated trailers just to store them. And antibody tests in those communities have shown antibody rates of 20-25% in NYC, I think 40% in Milan.
 

BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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Isn't there a COVID thread in the COVID board to discuss stuff like anti-bodies and testing?
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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The tests aren't reliable enough on a personal level. You can't say "oh I had a positive antibody test that means I'm immune". But they are reliable enough on a population level.

We know the virus wasn't widely spreading because we didn't have lots of dead bodies. The death rate still appears to be around 1%. Places like New York or Milan had lots of dead bodies - so many so they had to get those refrigerated trailers just to store them. And antibody tests in those communities have shown antibody rates of 20-25% in NYC, I think 40% in Milan.

The tests aren’t reliable enough at a population level because they aren’t reliable - that’s the entire point.

And experts have admitted they missed a lot of early Covid19 deaths that they chalked up to “flu like symptoms, respiratory issues, or pneumonia”.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/22/death-coronavirus-first-california/

Covid19 was most definitely spreading significantly before most rinks shut down in mid March.

There is no way around that if you look at the evidence.
 

Yukon Joe

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Aug 3, 2011
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Anyways...

Alberta announces a Phase 2 re-opening. When it comes to team sports more details need to come from the hockey organizing bodies. But the idea is that you play in a "cohort group" of up to 50. So for hockey I imagine it would look like you always play against the same 1 or 2 other teams presumably from the same club or region. It's a hell of a lot better than no hockey so I'll take it.

Alberta moves to stage two of relaunch

They want to move to a Phase 3 in the fall, but we'll see about that.
 
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powerstuck

Nordiques Hopes Lies
Jan 13, 2012
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The latest news about the virus shows there really is no reason not to play, nor was there ever a reason to shut it all down.
Go have fun

My opinion is that currently my employer forces me to come into office for work. But they cannot ensure 100% of the time social distancing. They cannot ensure 100% of time cleaning procedures.

Same happens in the most groceries (sure they limit numbers of customers, one way lanes and what not but all it takes is one 5 minute visit to see how people react, they don't respect order, they touch 1001 boxes and cans and items before picking up one).

So, if everything mandatory can and must be done...so can hockey.
 

BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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Even with rinks in my neck of the woods being able to re-open in mid-July, the more you hear local health officials speak, its becoming pretty clear the rinks will only be allowed to host private hockey schools/camps with only skills and drills in order to maintain their precious six feet physical distancing. As far as an actual game or scrimmage, that is starting to sound like it will be a long ways off, possibly not to be permitted until there is a vaccine in place.
 

Yukon Joe

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Aug 3, 2011
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I don't hate the "cohort group" idea actually. It would allow the kids to actually play meaningful hockey games - it's just that you always play against the same 1-2 teams. It does increase the risk of spread, and now if one kid gets Covid then all 50 kids in the cohort (and their families!) need to quarantine and get tested, but it should prevent any super-spreading.

In happy news my kids was on the ice for the first time in 3 months today for a private hockey school. But only 10 kids, all 6 feet apart. But it's a start.
 

Outl4w

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Dec 16, 2011
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FL
My rec started out a few weeks ago. No showers after and you must be out the locker room in 10 minutes or less. They clean the locker rooms, The bar area is spread out 6 feet apart and limited seating at 50%. No locker room beer coolers are allowed to be purchased.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,115
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I heard yesterday that one of our public rinks will have fairly strict measures in place when they re-open. Best case is the rinks will re-open in mid-July based on the time-frame outlined by our government.

No spectators or parents allowed inside
No access to dressing rooms whatsoever
Players are expected to arrive no earlier than 10 mins. prior to their ice session
Players are expected to remove their skates and leave immediately afterwards
Players must provide their own water bottle
Players are expected to arrive fully dressed with the exception of skates/helmets/gloves
Players will be given a chair inside the rink to tie their skates. The chairs will be adequately spaced apart to enforce physical distancing
After each 1 hour session, the rink will be closed for the following 1 hour for sanitation, effectively cutting the available ice-slots in half

Will be interesting to see if the local government imposes these same regulations on the private rinks in the area. Our amateur hockey community is made-up of a mish-mash of publicly-owned and privately-operated rink. It's pretty much monkey-see, monkey-do around here in regards to governmental regulations, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are made the regulations across the board, which may put more than one private rink out of business and this area was already hurting for ice surfaces. A consultant recommended in 2008 that we needed at least 4 new ice surfaces moving forward to meet the demand and thus far we got zero.

Not to mention the available time slots cut in half. Who decides which groups are going to get the short-end of the stick and lose their weekly time-slots? Many groups may have played their last games as their slot simply won't be available moving forward.

I play on a regular Monday night pick-up and these are basically the guidelines at my local rink. I agree that the temperature check is probably the best precaution available. Otherwise, "social distancing" simply isn't possible in hockey-even non-contact. Our first skate is tonight (later than normal). I signed up to play but my wife doesn't like it. We'll see where I am later today.
 

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