Countdown to WJC 2021 - Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Johnson?

[flashsabre]

I'm not any kind of Stan for Botterill, but I have no problem admitting there's a real good chance that he absolutely nailed his last draft. Cozens... sheesh that boi good. And Ryan Johnson could very well make me eat crow. I wanted Kaliyev and I know I wasn't the only one, but Johnson showed some amazing talent and potential this tourney. And not to forget Rousek and Huglen who are intriguing in their own right. Let's give some credit where it's due.

Imagine if Tage and Johnson both develop into impact players? This board would implode No, I am not defending the trade but it might still end up having some positive impact for the Sabres long term.

 

[Man of Principles]

Imagine if Tage and Johnson both develop into impact players? This board would implode No, I am not defending the trade but it might still end up having some positive impact for the Sabres long term.

I knew Tage was part of that deal but I totally forgot where that 1st came from. That's right, it was St. Louis' before it was ours. That deal I guess could (emphasis on could) still pay some dividends. I do feel like Johnson could be a fan favorite.

 

[sufferer]

Imagine if Tage and Johnson both develop into impact players? This board would implode No, I am not defending the trade but it might still end up having some positive impact for the Sabres long term.

That seems to me to be pretty much the absolute floor of what you'd hope to attain for O'Reilly. Many at the time, including myself, would've found it unnecessary to have traded him for Robert Thomas despite it obviously being preferable to the package we ended up with. I don't need it to remain one of the worst trades in franchise history, trust me.

 

[threeVo]

Re: Zegras.

Shittelstadt was also a god in the WJC and we see how that turns out. Its not like Cozens was bad he was probably the 2nd best player lol

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

That seems to me to be pretty much the absolute floor of what you'd hope to attain for O'Reilly. Many at the time, including myself, would've found it unnecessary to have traded him for Robert Thomas despite it obviously being preferable to the package we ended up with. I don't need to it to remain one of the worst trades in franchise history, trust me.

This was always the main problem with the deal. Darcy Regier would have held firm for Robert Thomas and we wouldn't have been so delayed in recovering from a trade I think ownership forced. Tage Thompson could be very good but Thomas is a centre and if you were giving up a guy like O'Reilly with a decent contract it was entirely reasonable you get Blues' best centre prospect. Unless Tage Thompson is a 30-35 goal winger, we lost. And even then. Ryan Johnson will be an NHL player but unlikely a top-3 D on any team. Just a bad deal. Always will be. Even before Blues won cup.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Re: Zegras.

Shittelstadt was also a god in the WJC and we see how that turns out. Its not like Cozens was bad he was probably the 2nd best player lol

He's also almost 20. Let's see what he does in the NHL.

 

[jc17]

I think what threw Canada off their game was their first adversity (first time down in game), how they adjusted to it and how team USA approached the early part of the game.

Team USA was aggressive early double shifting the Zegras and Caufield lines to push the pressure, especially after the goal. Canada adjusted by shortening their bench as well. But I think a big reason for their success at grinding teams down was rolling 4 lines with their incredible forward depth. Once they gave up that advantage they struggled. They eventually got back to it a bit in the 3rd. But it was too late by then.

I meant the Sabres last year, sorry should have clarified. The first 2 games specifically

 

[joshjull]

I meant the Sabres last year, sorry should have clarified. The first 2 games specifically

My bad

 

[joshjull]

Maybe the American Development Model is really kicking in?

 

[flashsabre]

This was always the main problem with the deal. Darcy Regier would have held firm for Robert Thomas and we wouldn't have been so delayed in recovering from a trade I think ownership forced. Tage Thompson could be very good but Thomas is a centre and if you were giving up a guy like O'Reilly with a decent contract it was entirely reasonable you get Blues' best centre prospect. Unless Tage Thompson is a 30-35 goal winger, we lost. And even then. Ryan Johnson will be an NHL player but unlikely a top-3 D on any team. Just a bad deal. Always will be. Even before Blues won cup.

Thomas was always the target that Botts should have held strong for. Thomas, Tage and what turns out to be Johnson should have been the return.

 

[jc17]

Thomas was always the target that Botts should have held strong for. Thomas, Tage and what turns out to be Johnson should have been the return.

Have we completely ruled out the possibility they confused Thompson and Thomas?

I mean we all saw the alumni jerseys, the team employs rob ray, t-pegs called the bandits the "bisons" at the introductory presser. The team has a history of name mix ups

 

[debaser66]

Imagine if Tage and Johnson both develop into impact players? This board would implode No, I am not defending the trade but it might still end up having some positive impact for the Sabres long term.

still too much 2nd line stud Sobotka in my head.
Sorry but that move is still inexcusable in any sort of way. It's like putting sugar on a turd.

 

[brian_griffin]

I like to talk my shit, but hats off to our Canadian brothers. Great tournament, and great final. Thank you for something resembling normalcy these days.

(and)

Great tournament and discussion boys! Now on to the NHL season with you all.

How wonderful to see members of the Sabres organization playing in high-stakes, high-competition games. I'm hoping we see Sabres sweaters doing the same sooner rather than later.

agreed

That struck me as well. Has that been done at the WJC before? My memory is dim.

Being Canadian this stinks. The states were the underdogs in this one and played with that hunger. For me the blame lies with the coach, the team was clearly not mentally prepared for the game. One shift in the first epitomized it where there was one American player who took the puck deep all alone while the rest changed and 5 Canadian players sat in front of the net watching. Not one went after him. The Canadians were way to passive the first period and a half and it cost them. Facing zero adversity until this point didn’t help either but the coach did dittly squat to change it.

not trying to take anything away from the US, they played the perfect game.

The final was the only USA game I saw. In general, I thought USA's line changes were executed with intentionally greater cohesion and urgency. Don't know if they did that in the earlier games (or if it was even necessary due to lower grade competition). But I didn't notice a disproportionate number / percentage of CAN odd-man rushes the opposite way arising from line changes. In fact, the opposite.

 

[cybresabre]

That struck me as well. Has that been done at the WJC before? My memory is dim.

well, it's not the first time a silver medal captain passed out a medal...

 

[joshjull]

Thomas was always the target that Botts should have held strong for. Thomas, Tage and what turns out to be Johnson should have been the return.

The problem was Botts wasn’t in a position to of strength. He never had leverage over Armstrong.

Hindsight being 20/20, he probably should have taken what was on the table that Thursday. Instead of calling back Sunday desperately trying to trade ROR before his bonus had to get paid later in the day.


Plus, don’t forget about the 2021 2nd rounder we got in that deal. Woot woot

 

[flashsabre]

The problem was Botts wasn’t in a position to of strength. He never had leverage over Armstrong.

Hindsight being 20/20, he probably should have taken what was on the table that Thursday. Instead of calling back Sunday desperately trying to trade ROR before his bonus had to get paid later in the day.


Plus, don’t forget about the 2021 2nd rounder we got in that deal. Woot woot

Never heard that story. What was on the table on Thursday?

 

[Fjordy]

The problem was Botts wasn’t in a position to of strength. He never had leverage over Armstrong.

Botts could have told Armstrong that he had an offer on his desk from Bergevin in the form of #3 and that flower-tree that Bergevin was pulling on a YouTube video, then Armstrong might give up, Botts was supposed to be a shark in the market, and he was small carp.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

The problem was Botts wasn’t in a position to of strength. He never had leverage over Armstrong.

Hindsight being 20/20, he probably should have taken what was on the table that Thursday. Instead of calling back Sunday desperately trying to trade ROR before his bonus had to get paid later in the day.


Plus, don’t forget about the 2021 2nd rounder we got in that deal. Woot woot

Don't you mean Colin Miller?

 

[joshjull]

Don't you mean Colin Miller?

That pick was part of that trade....

 

[sabresEH]

Re: Zegras.

Shittelstadt was also a god in the WJC and we see how that turns out. Its not like Cozens was bad he was probably the 2nd best player lol

Zegras had 11 assists in 7 games. Mittlestadt had 11 pts in 7 games. 18 in 7 is a hell of a lot different than 11 in 7. Also one could argue Tkachuk was the straw that stirred the drink for that line. Casey was good. Zegras played on another level than he did in the WJC.

 

[joshjull]

Never heard that story. What was on the table on Thursday?

The reporting out of St. Louis was that Armstrong broke off talks over a ROR deal near the end week during the free talk period. He said he could wait any longer because he had a roster to fill out. Bozak and Perron are the two bigger names he’d signed after the tarde talks stopped.

Free agency officially started Sunday July 1st. Later that day ROR was due his bonus. Armstrong said he was surprised to get a call from Botts on Sunday trying to start up trade talks again. He thought the issue was dead. Since Armstrong had taken on salaries as he filled out his roster. The Blues needed to dump cap space to make any deal happen.

I can’t say specifically what was on the table Thursday. But I can say with some certainty that Berglund wasn’t involved. He still had a full NTC that didn’t expire until the end of June. If we had asked the Blues about him his agent would have been notified about it. He wasn’t. Then his agent forgets to submit his 20 team no trade list by July 1st (his deal was switching from full NTC to 20 team NTC). Which is the only reason Berglund becomes available on July 1st.

The likely offering from the Blues on that Thursday was Tage and the picks. Botts may very well have been pushing for Thomas or Dunn like many on here wanted. But the Blues weren’t going to move them and Botts had no leverage to get it done. Then when Botts calls back Sunday scrambling to make a deal before the bonus is paid. He has to take on cap dumps to make it happen.

What I was saying in my previous post was ... If he was going to move ROR and had to do it before his bonus was paid. He probably should have taken his lumps on the return (Tage and picks) with what was offered on Thursday/end of the week. But leave the cap space open to use to help try to mitigate against the hit the lineup would take from the trade.