News Article: COULD LEAFS LET REIMER WALK? TheFourthPeriod.com

[Ari91]

Actually not what i said at all - call them out .. cast out the entire team because the entire team on a nightly basis had far more brain farts that reimer or any goaltender had in the history of the NHL on any given night this past season. Outside of franson (a bit) I don't see the loathing for players that certainly did have have the greatest of seasons as a leaf and mailed it in for a lengthy period of time - because basically everyone outside of perhaps bernier and rielly could be painted with that brush.

puck tracking has a very strong correlation to the amount of shots you get tossed at you in a given period of time, and it's very hard to get that back when you don't play that much. Spacial awareness and anticipating plays the same thing. More experienced goaltenders know how to find that groove but expecting a fairly inexperienced goaltender to do it that has never played as a backup at this level is asking alot.

Most goaltenders get brought in slowly at the NHL level - Reimer was not. he was tossed in and basically shouldered the workload. then that workload was taken away from him, and then people expected the same performance. well duh....

you track a small object the next time you are a passenger in car down the highway, watch it from the passenger side and see how quickly it goes by you past the door - that is slow compared to the shots they face. track one of the KM's sign and keep it in focus until it's right beside you. Again, that's a slow easy shot. when you are in your groove, watching things like that feels like it's slowing down, when you are not, it's damned hard to catch up. that's nothing to do with skill, that's simply not being able to find that spot in which every goaltender needs to be in - which is actually why Allaire's system works - if the defense isn't too stupid to be aware of it.

Every player's performance can be analyzed independently to some extent. Context can make a situation easier to explain/understand but it often doesn't make it excusable. Sure, some people have gone too far in blaming Reimer but there's a difference between saying 'Reimer played bad this season' and saying 'it's all Reimer's fault'. People aren't obligated to make a list of names each time just so you don't assume that they put all the blame on one player. In the moment, watching the goalie fail to make an easy save at a crucial stretch in the season made Reimer the easy scapegoat. Can you honestly say that with some reflection and hindsight, that there is the same magnitude of blame being placed on Reimer? Because if you see that same level of frustration and blame running rampant against Reimer right now, I'd kindly ask that you point out which way to look because I'm curious.

 

[Ari91]

I've seen the best goaltenders in the world give up 3 goals on less shots. are they bad too?

The goaltender has to also trust the defense to make the right play. the goaltender has to also be able to trust that the defense are properly going to cover players in front and sides of the crease. If not, you tend to hesitate, try to cheat just in case the pass gets through,etc .. especially in the case of a 2 on 1, of the shooter faking the pass. With defense and a goaltender that is in sync - the communication and the trust is there, with one that is not, the goaltender will start to apply weight on his skate readying to possibly move with the pass, not trusting his defense. a shot to that same side, and damned hard to stop when you've already shifted your weight.

This is also why i feel that toronto needs to find a goaltender to back up bernier that is like bernier's more hybrid style. I think the leafs defense that wasn't that good to start off with, really struggled with the differing styles of the goaltenders. that's neither right or wrong, but in a game made up of split second decisions from every player on the ice that can lead to alot of problems.

reimer had his share or problems for sure - but the leafs overall had far more mistakes in a game by players not wearing goalie pads.

You tell me...is that I said in my post?

My point was that making saves becomes a lot harder as the game goes on and the goalie is facing a lot of shots. A goalie should be more fresh and alert after 13 shots than after 48 shots - that's common sense.

And he gave up like 3 goals in the first period for like 3 or 4 games straight. I understand his situation but you still need to have accountability when you aren't doing what you're paid to do. Your explanations are turning into long excuses and I'm not interested in that.

 

[rrc1967]

Every player's performance can be analyzed independently to some extent. Context can make a situation easier to explain/understand but it often doesn't make it excusable. Sure, some people have gone too far in blaming Reimer but there's a difference between saying 'Reimer played bad this season' and saying 'it's all Reimer's fault'. People aren't obligated to make a list of names each time just so you don't assume that they put all the blame on one player. In the moment, watching the goalie fail to make an easy save at a crucial stretch in the season made Reimer the easy scapegoat. Can you honestly say that with some reflection and hindsight, that there is the same magnitude of blame being placed on Reimer? Because if you see that same level of frustration and blame running rampant against Reimer right now, I'd kindly ask that you point out which way to look because I'm curious.

I see a team that was embarrassingly comical to watch. A team. more times than naught a goaltender is a product of the team in front of him. I can't recall watching the leafs play that i was so embarrassed to watch them as much as this team on so many evenings outside of watching the team in the 80's where I swear half the players were ankle breakers on skates.

Bernier had an incredible season - one which he may not ever be able to repeat unless the team in front of him shapes the #$(*&#$ up. Reilly had a great first jump into the league. Kadri did alright for his second year fully up. The rest? swab the brush and paint them all with it.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Who cares he's terrible....next!

 

[Gallagbi]

yet Reimer had an incredible start to the season and helped the leafs at least jump off to a good enough start to keep them into the playoff picture until January until the team got hot again. So let me get this straight. It's okay to play bad in the course of the season, as long as you don't play bad at the end of the year.

It's more about playing well under pressure, but it's tough to say Reimer had a good year.

That was a great opportunity for Reimer to show himself and help the team, but he fell flat on his face.

Most of the team had ups and downs, Reimer struggled most when he was counted on most. The others who struggled during this stretch have also taken a lot of heat.

Though most of them had higher highs this season compared to Reimer, who lost his starting job and ended up being pulled an awful lot.

 

[613Leafer]

Offer him a QO, if he rejects it he's an RFA. If anyone else signs him we get a pick, if no-one else signs him that will force him to sign here at a low caphit, which would give us a better backup then what we could get in free agency.

Plus goalie markets change over time, and Reimers value only really dropped because of a poor second half to this past season. He had a solid start this year and obviously a great year last year. There's a good chance he rebounds.

 

[Ari91]

I see a team that was embarrassingly comical to watch. A team. more times than naught a goaltender is a product of the team in front of him. I can't recall watching the leafs play that i was so embarrassed to watch them as much as this team on so many evenings outside of watching the team in the 80's where I swear half the players were ankle breakers on skates.

Bernier had an incredible season - one which he may not ever be able to repeat unless the team in front of him shapes the #$(*&#$ up. Reilly had a great first jump into the league. Kadri did alright for his second year fully up. The rest? swab the brush and paint them all with it.

Okay got it.

All Leafs fans, for future when discussing any criticism regarding Reimer, please include the following footnote in your post for rrc1967's benefit:

Please note that the critical opinions expressed in the above post regarding Toronto Maple Leafs goaltender James Reimer does not suggest sole blame for the Toronto Maple Leafs' mediocrity. In partial disclosure, the laundry list of blame includes (but is not limited to) - Randy Carlyle, Dion Phaneuf, David Clarkson, Joffrey Lupul, Nazem Kadri, a seemingly spiteful universe that finds joy in Leafs fans misery, etc.


Since apparently you don't understand that criticizing one player doesn't automatically suggest that that player is solely to blame for an entire team's failure, I hope you'll find some solace in the use of that disclaimer as means to clear things up.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Offer him a QO, if he rejects it he's an RFA. If anyone else signs him we get a pick, if no-one else signs him that will force him to sign here at a low caphit, which would give us a better backup then what we could get in free agency.

Plus goalie markets change over time, and Reimers value only really dropped because of a poor second half to this past season. He had a solid start this year and obviously a great year last year. There's a good chance he rebounds.

Only thing with Reimer....... not sure he can sit for a bt as a back-up and be effective

 

[achtungbaby]

Isn't this what the Leafs do best? Let players walk for nothing

All a part of our master plan to get good really slowly... And it's working.

 

[Ari91]

Speaking of Reimer, he and Scrivens shared a 23 save shutout against the Swiss in a World preseason game. Must have been so foreign to both goalies to have seen such little rubber over the course of 60 minutes

 

[achtungbaby]

Speaking of Reimer, he and Scrivens shared a 23 save shutout against the Swiss in a World preseason game. Must have been so foreign to both goalies to have seen such little rubber over the course of 60 minutes

Easiest game ever after facing twenty shots a period for the past few years.

 

[yubbers]

Yes I question it, because any respectable gm in this league would not of traded their best back up while your in the playoffs or right there in the race.

If you didn't know reimer was going to fail as a back up, then I don't know what to tell ya. An already inconsistant goalie didn't thrive playing 3 games a month? Wow, how could that have happened? A smart GM would have recognized this and could of sold high.

 

[Super Mega]

oddly .. i have yet to hear phaneuf called out for losing the leafs season ..

Thats because no one player is responsible. Phaneuf has gotten endless flak though, lurk more?

There are far more Reimer apologists than Phaneuf I can tell you that much. Fans really connect to James on some emotional level, hes the underdog, he has the heart. He used the same old pads every year when he was young (hes the scrappy poor kid), Bernier's parents bought him new ones every year (hes the spoiled rich kid). The narrative exists and I see it all the time in how passionate fans get behind him. Thats the only rational reason I can see people getting behind his awful glove and flopping around. Bernier was a breath of fresh air, yea its poor asset management to lose him (thats mostly hindsight) but its time to let go.

 

[hotpaws]

Thats because no one player is responsible. Phaneuf has gotten endless flak though, lurk more?

There are far more Reimer apologists than Phaneuf I can tell you that much . Fans really connect to James on some emotional level, hes the underdog, he has the heart. He used the same old pads every year when he was young (hes the scrappy poor kid), Bernier's parents bought him new ones every year (hes the spoiled rich kid). The narrative exists and I see it all the time in how passionate fans get behind him. Thats the only rational reason I can see people getting behind his awful glove and flopping around. Bernier was a breath of fresh air, yea its poor asset management to lose him (thats mostly hindsight) but its time to let go.

There were many of us you who said if our goalies cooled off this team would be in trouble and we were ridiculed and flamed . Well our goaltending cooled off and the team went over the cliff again .

You cannot go through an entire season playing the way we played and expect your tenders to bail you out game after game and when they stop stealing games act like they're now costing you games . Reims played okay down the stretch but getting okay tending isn't good enough for this team to win .

As far as his style goes , i learned many years ago the key to goaltending is the ability to stop pucks not how good one looks moving around the crease . I never had a clue what style Hasek played but his peak was better than any other goalie i've seen . I'm not comparing Reims with Hasek , i'm just saying i couldn't give a damn how they stop the puck as long as they keep it out of our net .

I like Bernier because i believe he's better at keeping the puck out of our net than Reims , not because he looks prettier doing it . Yes i know his superior technique is part of the reason but i believe he also reads the play better which is just as important .

 

[Semantics]

It wasn't a "collapse" it was a full full-fledged meltdown. when Bernier got injured, the Leafs were 9 points clear from the 9th place team. By the end of the season we were 9 points from making the playoffs.

At the time the Leafs were 9 points up, the other teams all had a bunch of games in hand though. The Leafs were never on pace for more than 94-95 points, which if they'd have achieved that total would have barely been good enough to squeak in as 7th/8th seed.

Sure the last part of the season was a meltdown, but they were on the bubble the whole year regardless of how good the standings looked when they had more game played than everyone. There's no way they'd have made the playoffs even with Bernier playing every game.

 

[Semantics]

Letting weak goals didn't really help either. Again - it's not excusing the defense or the team for starting poorly, but Reimer isn't lily white innocent here. It's not an either or - it's both. Reimer was part of the problem. In five games he couldn't even steal one - or hold down the fort enough to get one overtime point. He wasn't good enough that Bernier had to come in and play injured, and we kept on losing.

Nobody is saying Reimer was innocent. He was flat out mediocre at best during the stretch.

But the fact is, Reimer is a decent backup goalie. No other team expects their backup goalie to steal games when they're badly outplayed, so Reimer's performance was frankly what you'd expect. Some people in here are acting like he had the LA Kings defense in front of him.

It's like some people here have no long-term memory. Do you not remember when the Leafs were a top 10 team in the league every year with Glenn ****ing Healy as our backup? Or the Ron Wilson era, where all of our starting goalies were worse than Reimer was last year?

 

[pooleboy]

Comparing Reimer to Pogge is laughable and only the blindest of haters can come up with that comparison.

Why dont u post something of substance instead of absolutly nothing. It seems your bias toward reimer is getting in the way rather than ripping on others opinions why dont u offer some insight?

 

[Ari91]

Nobody is saying Reimer was innocent. He was flat out mediocre at best during the stretch.

But the fact is, Reimer is a decent backup goalie. No other team expects their backup goalie to steal games when they're badly outplayed, so Reimer's performance was frankly what you'd expect. Some people in here are acting like he had the LA Kings defense in front of him.

It's like some people here have no long-term memory. Do you not remember when the Leafs were a top 10 team in the league every year with Glenn ****ing Healy as our backup? Or the Ron Wilson era, where all of our starting goalies were worse than Reimer was last year?

What about Reimer's first season as a back up gives you the impression that he's a decent back-up? I think it takes a different mental make up to be a back up compared to a starter. His history would suggest that he's a decent starter and giving him a starting job is less of a gamble than it is put him in a back up position. If Reimer is going to excel as a back up, he needs to embrace the mentality of 'do your best' and that's it. He put too much pressure on himself by using every game as a means to keep/win back the starting position and mentally he didn't respond to the pressure he put on himself.

I think that may be the reason why he did so well at the end of the season coming in relief of Bernier (LA and Boston) but struggled in almost all of his starts in between that time. In relief, he didn't have time to over analyze, he was just thrust into the situation.

 

[The Apologist]

He let in 4 goals against the Habs and leaving one the 2 top goal scorers in the league wide open is on the D .

Laughable performance against the wings ? He let in 3 goals in 31 shots and i believe only one before the 3rd period .The Det goalie let in a softy as well but going by our game threads it seems we think every goal we've scored this season was an unstoppable bullet .

I don't think you have a clue what solid goaltending is . Solid goaltending isn't standing on your head game after game while the team gives up the most shots in the league .

I don't give a damn whether Reims comes back but none of those goalies you mentioned would be an improvement over Reims .

A goalie is a part of the team and he's going to have off nights and slumps just like the players but if i had to grade our goalies performances compared to our skaters it's easy to say they were far more consistent .

How many complete efforts did this team have this year ? When some of us were saying this sporadic effort was going to cost us if our goalies cooled off people like you giggled and shrugged it off and refused to believe how poorly the team was playing . Well the goalies cooled off and the team went over the cliff and yet you still ignore the major problem was the team and not the goaltending .

Bernier comes back and it's easy to see he wasn't 100% . Did the team rally around their num 1 and try to put in a solid effort ? **** no , they played one of there worst games of the season and allowed 48 shots on net .

I don't often agree with you (ever?) but my god, seriously people, Reimer had what, nearly 100 solid games with us and then one bad ten game stretch (and even then, only about 3-4 of those games were truly bad)? Reimer as a backup is just fine. If he knows going into this season that's his role, he'll be fine.

I think the Leafs really screwed up on hm though. Why pretend the guy has a chance at earning the starting role when you clearly have no intention of putting him there? He looked great (better even than Bernier) to start the season and still got benched, THAT IMHO is what caused the drama.

 

[The Apologist]

I think that may be the reason why he did so well at the end of the season coming in relief of Bernier (LA and Boston) but struggled in almost all of his starts in between that time. In relief, he didn't have time to over analyze, he was just thrust into the situation.

Doesn't what you just said kinda indicate that he would be a fine backup if he knew that was his role?

 

[The Apologist]

Why dont u post something of substance instead of absolutly nothing. It seems your bias toward reimer is getting in the way rather than ripping on others opinions why dont u offer some insight?

Justin Pogge NHL TOTALS 7 1 4 0 1 27 173 4.36 372

James Reimer NHL TOTALS 140 65 48 0 15 361 4,198 2.85 7,60

There, comparing James Reimer to Justin Pogge is laughable. Proven in fact.

 

[rrc1967]

At the time the Leafs were 9 points up, the other teams all had a bunch of games in hand though. The Leafs were never on pace for more than 94-95 points, which if they'd have achieved that total would have barely been good enough to squeak in as 7th/8th seed.

indeed.

after the LA game (which was really all reimer) the leafs had a 9 point lead on detriot / carolina with both teams having 3 games on hand - they had played 68 games while most of the teams around them had only played 66-65. the leafs had at the time as well, still one of the worst ROW's for their peers making tie breakers effectively an always lose proposition.

 

[Gaelman]

Reimer

Reimer hasn't been the same player since he got hurt against Montreal. He goes down way too much and takes forever to get back on his feet. The Leafs won't get much for him in a trade so letting him walk is a real option. I expect they will trade him at the draft for a late round pick.

 

[Ari91]

Doesn't what you just said kinda indicate that he would be a fine backup if he knew that was his role?

Knowing your role and embracing your role aren't mutually exclusive. Reimer knew his role but he didn't embrace it. He was so focused on that starting job that he allowed it to affect his confidence. Reimer never looks pretty in net but having such long stretches of bad play has been uncharacteristic of him from what we've seen in his short career. Either he didn't embrace his role and struggled because of it OR second half Reimer is the real Reimer. Take your pick.

 

[Ari91]

At the time the Leafs were 9 points up, the other teams all had a bunch of games in hand though. The Leafs were never on pace for more than 94-95 points, which if they'd have achieved that total would have barely been good enough to squeak in as 7th/8th seed.

Sure the last part of the season was a meltdown, but they were on the bubble the whole year regardless of how good the standings looked when they had more game played than everyone. There's no way they'd have made the playoffs even with Bernier playing every game.

Those games in hand (even if all were won - which they weren't) still had the Leafs in a playoff spot. Easy to make a statement that one can't prove false...problem is you can't prove it as truth either.