Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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Could any metro areas other than New York and LA support multiple teams?
- Thread starter saskriders
- Start date
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Detroit has fans in a part of Ontario that might go up for grabs and they care about Eastern alignment. They will have deals in place that protect those interests.
You're talking about Detroit, there's no way they'd support a second team. There's few votes for turning down big expansion fees.
This is like the guy with bad breath not knowing they have bad breath. Lost of people live in Toronto, are not leafs fans. One of the reasons they aren't leafs fans is that they simply don't have the option to even going to a game. I don't know how hard this is to appreciate. If 20 percent of southern ontario becomes gta2 fans you'll have a top 5 franchise in terms of value and revenue.
Do you think anyone moving from BC/Alberta/Quebec are gonna be leaf fans? How about immigrants from Russia?
What about all the people who simply hate their dads?
How about all the people who hate their obnoxious jock obsess/coworkers.
There's far far more non leaf fans who'd likely adopt a new team than there are potential fans in Seattle.
Green
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2019
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Toronto for sure, fans will come as a novelty at first to see cheaper NHL action than they will eventually breed a younger generation of fans, of course if the Leafs win a Cup in the next few years which I personally think they will that will put a damper in the growth of that team but if they had put a 2nd team in Toronto 20 years ago I am guessing they would be one of the 10 ten valuable teams in the league
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
Its either Hamilton or GTA II. Not both.
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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BKIslandersFan
F*** off
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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CanadianCoyote
Registered User
The GTA/Golden Horseshoe seems unique in that there's no real historical precedent for having 2 professional teams (CFL not withstanding). The Maple Leafs have 100+ years of being the only NHL team in town, and it might be a tall order for enough people to switch allegiances to make them viable. It would probably take at least 1 generation for the Leafs to effectively not get 2-3 extra home games when they play their new cross-town rivals. It seems that 2nd teams came about while the 1st franchise was still relatively young or as a result of a rival league.
NHL
* (Mighty) Ducks: expansion in 1993, Kings were 26 years old
* Islanders: expansion in 1972 to block the WHA, Rangers were 46 years old but historic precedent with the NY Americans and multiple teams in other sports.
* Devils: relocation in 1982. I'm curious if they would have been allowed to go to New Jersey if they left Colorado under the more modern NHL (say the early 90s instead of early 80s), or if Bettman would have wanted to cap the area at 2 teams.
* Canadiens/Maroons - totally different era, also needs to take into consideration the unique cultural makeup of Montreal where the Marroons were the English team and the Canadiens were the Francophone team.
MLB - all markets had representatives of two different leagues, including former 2 team markets. Relatively short time frame between the two teams being established (LA & Chi) or replacing previous teams (NY).
NBA - Nets are from the ABA; Clippers relocated without league approval.
NFL - AFC vs NFC
NHL
* (Mighty) Ducks: expansion in 1993, Kings were 26 years old
* Islanders: expansion in 1972 to block the WHA, Rangers were 46 years old but historic precedent with the NY Americans and multiple teams in other sports.
* Devils: relocation in 1982. I'm curious if they would have been allowed to go to New Jersey if they left Colorado under the more modern NHL (say the early 90s instead of early 80s), or if Bettman would have wanted to cap the area at 2 teams.
* Canadiens/Maroons - totally different era, also needs to take into consideration the unique cultural makeup of Montreal where the Marroons were the English team and the Canadiens were the Francophone team.
MLB - all markets had representatives of two different leagues, including former 2 team markets. Relatively short time frame between the two teams being established (LA & Chi) or replacing previous teams (NY).
NBA - Nets are from the ABA; Clippers relocated without league approval.
NFL - AFC vs NFC
Absolutely agree. Truthfully an NFL stadium is really the worst investment in terms of sporting venues. Sure, they're huge, but there's so few games, the sort of concert tours that fill stadiums are far fewer than they used to be, and Monster Jam doesn't use the whole building. All told, an NFL stadium is probably in use maybe 45 days of the year max.
Compare that to an MLB ballpark, which is in use for half the days of the half-year season (the other half being road trips), instantly making it have at least 81 days of use, plus some of those same concerts and monster truck and motocross shows.
And an indoor arena? That's just (usually) smart spending. Those are in constant use year-round. Even without a major primary tenant the new arena in KC seems like a smart move. The only real issue is if there's too many arenas for the market, which may end up being an issue in the New York area of all places between MSG (presented by Chase), Prudential, Barclays, and USB. (Not counting Nassau Coliseum here because after USB opens it's not likely to remain a full-size arena; it may be reconfigured (again) into a pure theatre. Also note that all of them, when considering the presenting sponsor of MSG, are sponsored by banks or insurance companies.
CanadianCoyote
Registered User
Not true, actually;
There was an NHL team in Hamilton for five years in the 1920's alongside the St. Patricks, so there is a historical precedent for the NHL having two GTA franchises. It's practically ancient history, but it's still precedent.
Channelcat
Unhinged user
The GTA is the biggest and best hockey market market in the world. They could easily support 2. Maybe 3.
I think the Ducks do alright relative to the rest of the NHL. But, the amount of competition for your discretionary income for sports in the LA region is huge. They have 2 NFL teams (although no one seems to care about the Chargers), 2 MLB teams, 2 NBA teams, 2 MLS teams, 2 NHL teams, a historic NCAA Football team (USC), and a historic NCAA Basketball team (UCLA), plus both of the college teams have competitive teams in the sports they aren't blue blood in. Although, I've always felt of the professional teams in LA the only two with die hard rabid fan bases are Dodgers and Lakers, whereas the others rely a lot on fairweather fans, compared to some smaller cities that only have 3 or 4 teams, but all of them have rabid fanbases (Philly and Boston being the notable examples).
I have a hard time seeing MTL two. Yes, the Habs thrive, and MTL has a huge boxing and MMA fanbase, but if MTL was to get a new professional sports team NBA or MLB probably make more sense.
Should probably mention the Bay Area. A's came into existence about 11 years after the Giants.
The big thing with the GTA is, its importance/size of market has rapidly grown since the 1950's compared to many American cities (especially compared to its great lake counterparts). At one point Toronto/GTA was comparable to WNY, then it was Cleveland, and then it was Detroit. Now, it's Chicago. This has all happened in the boomers life-time. Other cities and regions have also seen sizable growth in this time frame (Miami/Southern Florida, Atlanta, Dallas-Fort Worth, Bay Area), granted while Toronto has added 2 Big 4 teams since this rapid growth started occurring, the other cities have all added more. Metro Toronto's population has grown by over 5,000,000 people since 1950, as a city that was around 1 million in 1950. That's also not looking at regions that border the GTA but aren't considered part of Metro Toronto (Golden Horseshoe and Greater-Golden Horseshoe) that have also seen massive growth (Hamilton, Niagara Region, Simcoe County).
Would they? Or would the NHL teams in Toronto be unofficially known as the Leafs and Not-the-Leafs? Honest question (not trying to troll), but I noticed your avatar, would you switch allegiances to the other guys?
Interestingly, other US metros that have seen similar, significant growth and still have 1 major-league team. For example, the population might support a 2nd NFL team in Dallas or Houston, but that's not going to happen (long shot for 3rd team elsewhere in Texas, but that's another discussion). Would you see a 2nd NBA team in the Bay Area (i.e. San Jose)?
Toronto though is by far the biggest US/Canadian city that only has 3 big 4 sports teams. Those regions also help subsidize major NCAA sports either in the region or nearby (which isn't a competition for Canadian sports teams). I believe Toronto's rate of growth sustained over the past 70 years even exceeds the most booming American cities outside of Las Vegas (and Toronto is a much larger city than Vegas). And, without a dramatic change in immigration policies by the United States, Canada, and Ontario, this is likely to continue.
You wouldn't see a 2nd NBA team in San Jose primarily because not only is GS in the same area, the Sacramento Kings are less than a two-hour drive in state.
