OT: Coronavirus XXXI: Tighter Alberta Restrictions Through The Holiday Season, Stay Safe Everyone

[bone]

So what are you even disputing about the supporters or what was raised that all these proprietors are simply looking at a cash grab to save their operations during a pandemic.

Several of these tried to remain open. They were getting poor customer numbers. Almost all of these are expensive places, where anybody would pay more to eat in their establishments, and increasingly in a post peak, post pandemic world how many people even eat in any of these or can afford to.

This is like a list of failed business models. Some of these restaurants are very good, Sabor for instance, but very expensive. Not even 1% of consumers would be impacted if a lot of these just had to close.

Many of these businesses, even the ones with pretty good food struggled to retain business even prior to the pandemic. How many people in an Alberta busted economy, pre pandemic, could even afford to eat in these places?

Several similar establishments went broke pre pandemic. Places like Hardware Grill, Chefs table, 1915 pub. Normands closing their Citadel Theater location because they were maybe getting 20 customers a night and nothing but empty tables, for years prior to the pandemic.

The big picture is that the Edmonton Economy has changed drastically. Oil boom bust engines went bust. Every proprietor on this list knows that, and that premium restaurant times in this city are tough, in a super competitive market where simply too many of these places exist and too few customers with deep enough pockets exist.

Even at Rogers Place Atlas Steak and Fish was a heavily pumped expensive start up there. On any given night, any time, any event, any game you could walk in there and get a table. Never full, never even busy. Overpriced fare, nothing fantastic, busy noisy environment, people just didn't want to go there and throw money away which is even ironic considering its located adjacent to a casino and a pro arena..

Meanwhile Match resto on the main level always busy. Affordable pricing. Casual wear, not stuffy, not pretentious like so many of these other places.

Some of these places had a good future here. Rostizados, Tres Carnales but rusty had lease problems and inflated costs due to that. Basically many of the restos on 104st have suffered immense problems as people just don't want to eat there and pay the prices. I find it funny that Blue Plate Diner are on the list looking for a handout. They had already closed operations. Probably some more like that on the list. Blue Plate was getting miserable customer volumes for years. They couldn't afford the 104st pricing structures. They packed bags. Then they started some dismal establishment in Glenora that never caught on.

Its almost predictable who all is on that list.

But thanks for letting us know a list of several establishments we will never go in again as they all have their hands out for cash bail outs. Front of line.

Thanks for this. I wasn't familiar with the specific restaurants on there, but knowing that background makes their list of demands all the more ludicrous.

I will miss Tres Carnales though if they can't survive. I loved their dining experience and food for whenever we had an event to attend downtown. Hopefully they find a way to make a go if it afterwards.

 

[Little Fury]

Thanks for this. I wasn't familiar with the specific restaurants on there, but knowing that background makes their list of demands all the more ludicrous.

I will miss Tres Carnales though if they can't survive. I loved their dining experience and food for whenever we had an event to attend downtown. Hopefully they find a way to make a go if it afterwards.

He thinks Blue Plate is closed and they aren't. No reason to believe anything else he has to say on this.

 

[Drivesaitl]

A lot of crazy jumps in logic here, and a lot of personal opinion being pushed as fact. These places are to expensive to eat in and are failing. How do I know? Because I won't spend my money there...However this place I really like, and because I like it, it would have been fine and should be applauded...

I've eaten at most of these places, and there is a range of prices there. In all the price categories, some of those businesses were doing just fine pre-pandemic.

The government's decision is not to determine which businesses were poor business models, but to respond to business not having the opportunity to succeed as a result of there closure due to government restrictions (none of which are indicative of a poorly run business or business model). You also have no idea which of these businesses would and would not succeed pre/current/post pandemic, or had the pandemic not happened at all.

I shouldn't bother, because you've already indicated what your posting style is.

yes, I wrote an opinion post. I happen to be somewhat opinionated, on a messageboard. Somebody shoot the messenger for voicing an opinion on a message board. I know what most of these establishments are about. Been at some of them. Most are overpriced, some ridiculous. I mean hey lets go to Pressed and get a 15 buck sandwich with two slices of meat on it. Its the worst place in any food court and why they typically have no customers as others places are packed busy.

I notice you say "some" of these businesses were doing fine pre pandemic. I note you didn't say most, or a lot, or a majority. Yeah, probably the exception were doing fine. I have interest in business and business models and people would discuss these establishments all day long on places like C2E or other forums. Some of these are failed models from the start.

hardly any of these businesses are putting out this letter because of the latest round of restrictions and if they are I would wonder how the letter came out before the announcements lol, they are putting this out because they were getting hardly any customers as people avoided in person dining like cough, the plague..

 

[Drivesaitl]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg..._9xKpRyG8y3zehxvHJmUGM1t-HuwVVI7PSQhdeBELKDcI

Lockdowns work, says former AHS head who helped bring Australia's COVID cases under control

Lockdowns work if you are an island nation continent, with no mutual borders, like few places on Earth, with low population density, easy as pie to control entries, FAR from any other land mass, and that doesn't experience and winter any of the time.

GEE, if only every other place in the world could follow Australias great example.

Meanwhile when continents like Europe do worse than us I'm somehow inclined to think it isn't all that easy. Its a global pandemic of a century, and a pandemic spreads until the pandemic itself is done. That essentially being the history of most pandemics.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He thinks Blue Plate is closed and they aren't. No reason to believe anything else he has to say on this.

They closed 104st and opened up a deplorable little shop in a dip concrete bunker location in Glenora. With signage that might have been painted by some school kid on retainer. The new location on Glenora also closed, or may as well have been because they had no customers in the new location.

My point was they had failed pre pandemic. Due to other reasons. Something you can't dispute if you wanted to.

 

[Little Fury]

They closed 104st and opened up a deplorable little shop in a dip concrete bunker location in Glenora. With signage that might have been painted bsy some school kid on retainer. The new location on Glenora also closed, or may as well have been because they had no customers in the new location.

My point was they had failed pre pandemic. Due to other reasons. Something you can't dispute if you wanted to.

They're still open. Just say you were wrong and move on.

 

[Fourier]

Lockdowns work if you are an island nation continent, with no mutual borders, like few places on Earth, with low population density, easy as pie to control entries, FAR from any other land mass, and that doesn't experience and winter any of the time.

GEE, if only every other place in the world could follow Australias great example.

Meanwhile when continents like Europe do worse than us I'm somehow inclined to think it isn't all that easy. Its a global pandemic of a century, and a pandemic spreads until the pandemic itself is done. That essentially being the history of most pandemics.

I think it depends on your definition of works. If your goal is to reduce infections to close to 0 then maybe your conditions are necessary. But if your goal is to significantly change the infection curve, even if it is only temproary, then I think there is lots of evidence that they do work. The question is one of relative cost/benefit. But with a vaccine on the way, temporary gains may be more compelling.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

They closed 104st and opened up a deplorable little shop in a dip concrete bunker location in Glenora. With signage that might have been painted bsy some school kid on retainer. The new location on Glenora also closed, or may as well have been because they had no customers in the new location.

My point was they had failed pre pandemic. Due to other reasons. Something you can't dispute if you wanted to.

Blue Plate is in an awful location...tucked away off 124th and beside a credit company and across from the old, run-down dilapidated Western Cycle
yuck

 

[Drivesaitl]

They're still open. Just say you were wrong and move on.

They're still open today? Why they got their hands out looking for cash. Their business model already failed when they closed down their longterm operation on 104st where their few customers were. Good luck getting 5 people interested in eating dried disgusting lentil loaf in Glenora , and with Glenora having some other decent options.

The only thing good about Blue plate diner was it was so dark in there you couldn't see the *food* you were eating. Unfortunately you could taste it.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Heading out now, keep it civil guys. Enough of the build-up towards eventual pissing matches.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Not sure how I can reword my post to allow you to understand what I'm saying. Where are you getting that everyone expected this development idea from my post.

It was early.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Blue Plate is in an awful location...tucked away off 124th and beside a credit company and across from the old, run-down dilapidated Western Cycle
yuck

I know, do street view. lol. Nothing like the warm inviting exterior as pre fab concrete and what looks like a parkade..

Maybe Pressd could move in there when Blue Plate fails again. The 2 times I was dragged there to Blue Plate you'd think you were imported to an episode of Portlandia. Late hippies asking what the name of the grain fed loved chicken was and if it had a good life...before not ordering..

Somebody asking if the carrots and lentil in the loaf were treated humanely in the preparation.


yes I'm jk but..

 

[Little Fury]

I think it depends on your definition of works. If your goal is to reduce infections to close to 0 then maybe your conditions are necessary. But if your goal is to significantly change the infection curve, even if it is only temproary, then I think there is lots of evidence that they do work. The question is one of relative cost/benefit. But with a vaccine on the way, temporary gains may be more compelling.

There are other examples, like Vietnam, that have shown how lockdowns can be effective, but there's so many variables involved that saying anything definitively one way or another is a mugs game. With that being said, the evidence is pretty clear they are effective in doing precisely what you say.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

 

[Little Fury]

They're still open today? Why they got their hands out looking for cash. Their business model already failed when they closed down their longterm operation on 104st where their few customers were. Good luck getting 5 people interested in eating dried disgusting lentil loaf in Glenora , and with Glenora having some other decent options.

The only thing good about Blue plate diner was it was so dark in there you couldn't see the *food* you were eating. Unfortunately you could taste it.

You said they were closed. They aren't. You were wrong. QED.

 

[AM]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg..._9xKpRyG8y3zehxvHJmUGM1t-HuwVVI7PSQhdeBELKDcI

Lockdowns work, says former AHS head who helped bring Australia's COVID cases under control

Lockdowns especially work for groups who get paid to stay at home.

 

[AM]

Sure... anyone who doesn't agree with your narrative is "deplorable".

Nah, entitled yes.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think it depends on your definition of works. If your goal is to reduce infections to close to 0 then maybe your conditions are necessary. But if your goal is to significantly change the infection curve, even if it is only temproary, then I think there is lots of evidence that they do work. The question is one of relative cost/benefit. But with a vaccine on the way, temporary gains may be more compelling.

Europe indicates that even with ample resources, the wealth of nations, in countries that are possibly best designed to handle any crisis, they can't handle this and the virus spreads and wreaks its impact to somewhat greater or lesser degree. I mean the best you can do is mitigate, but the virus runs its course. The virus now also down in much of Europe as it ran its course. Interestingly not much difference in patterns in countries in Europe with strict or more moderate restrictions. Countries like Italy, Spain, could do anything, no matter how restrictive, and were not spared.

Pandemics are tragic and the only times that the worst ones don't exact a brutal toll is when they are stopped in tracks near origin. Once its out of the barn good luck.

it seems the only effective action was what I was advocating in Februrary. Closed borders, stopped flights and cruises, mandatory quarantine for ALL incoming travellers. No exceptions.

 

[MaxR11]

Didn’t get the rise you were looking for when you posted it the first time? OK, I’ll bite.

First of all this group seems to have been established only this year and in specific response to covid. Lets not pretend it is some long standing, well respected group of people with a proven track record of working hard to better the hospitality industry in Edmonton. Their website gives no clue who is included in their ‘membership’ but they claim to speak for the staggering number of ‘dozens’ of Edmonton businesses.

Reading their propaganda it’s quite clear that they are all in favour of being bailed out by the government. They want to

- suspend all payments (leases, loans, LOCs, even credit cards for as long as the pandemic lasts.

- suspend all rent and mortgage payments for retail AND residential properties for three months.

- introduce a UBI of $2000/month for everyone.

- receive a cash payment from the government for every business affected equal to the last month of pre covid sales.

- continue EI payments to everyone for sixty days AFTER they have returned to work.

- receive ‘relief’ payments for lost revenue back dated to March of this year.

- suspend all negative credit reporting and allow businesses/people to ‘put their name on a list’ that would shield them from anyone knowing about their bad credit.

- receive rent relief and eviction protection now and up to a period covering 120 days after the AHS declares the pandemic over.

I know what I think of this group and their transparent agenda, but I’ll refrain from commenting and let their own words speak for themselves. I’ll drop the link to their website here so the board can judge for themselves whether this group is legitimately in favour of lockdowns or just hoping to pressure the government into more handouts.

https://www.yegihc.com/

Cool thanks for outlining it all. I'm all for govt support for businesses and people during a pandemic like this. People have been calling for govt support for small businesses. Win win. Lockdown to gain control of numbers and support those affected by lockdown. A lot of businesses have been barely treading water because people aren't coming out anymore due to fear of the virus. This is best for a lot of them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You said they were closed. They aren't. You were wrong. QED.

I just said that so you could interject and have something to reply with.

Blue Plate Diner with failed business model and declining customers had to pull plug on 104st because they couldn't even make rent. I consider that failed pre pandemic. That was again pre pandemic..

Open deplorable place on Glenora with spiderwebs and tumbleweeds and very little business and then they get a eureka moment and figure out there might be some business bail outs for what was a failed operation anyway.

Fact of the matter is any owner of Blue plate would do better getting a govt care package then being open.

Although it could be considered humane that people would no longer have to ever be in a Blue Plate Diner trying to find something to order. A public service of sorts. We'll pay you to be closed. Maybe crowdfunding..

yum lol

Lentil loaf

17.00 / Family Style (serves 3-4) 44.00
A hearty and filling vegan loaf made with potato, carrots, ground nuts, mushrooms & spices. Topped with a rich vegan gravy and served with vegetables and root vegetable mash.

I hate to say I actually tried it, yuck.

or you could get a bison burger for 21 bucks, a veggie burger for 18 (I mean ask yourself how a veggie burger should cost 18 bucks..

My own opinion is taking kids here would be grounds for child abuse but this menu offering;

9.50
Smaller beet-based burger patty topped with cheddar cheese on a toasted brioche bun with lettuce, pickle & aioli with homecut fries and ketchup. (please let us know if you would like this veganized)

Ummm, having a little trouble wondering what "if you would like this veganized means" Its a beet based burger..

Oh no, they killed some carrots again...

 

[Fourier]

Europe indicates that even with ample resources, the wealth of nations, in countries that are possibly best designed to handle any crisis, they can't handle this and the virus spreads and wreaks its impact to somewhat greater or lesser degree. I mean the best you can do is mitigate, but the virus runs its course. The virus now also down in much of Europe as it ran its course. Interestingly not much difference in patterns in countries in Europe with strict or more moderate restrictions. Countries like Italy, Spain, could do anything and were not spared.

Pandemics are tragic and the only times that the worst ones don't exact a brutal toll is when they are stopped in tracks near origin. Once its out of the barn good luck.

Lockdowns were never going to stop the pandemic once it was going, but they do change the shape of the infection curve. If you locked down all of Canada tightly right now until spring you would probably significantly reduce deaths, hospitalizaations and other direct impacts of the virus. Then the vaccine could potentially take you the rest of the way. The problem is that you would have economic ruin if people actually complied, which they won't.

The question is could things have been much better with short but much more significant restrictions at strategic points where spread was starting to accelerate? With the benefit of hindsight, I suspect that the answer is yes. But again would the cost have been too great both in terms of its impact on the economy and in terms of people's wiilingness to go along. That's a harder to answer. I think we could have been smarter in how resrtictions were applied. But I also think that as a society, after the first couple of months, there were too many people who simply were not willing to comply with even the restrictions that were imposed to give them a chance.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Cool thanks for outlining it all. I'm all for govt support for businesses and people during a pandemic like this. People have been calling for govt support for small businesses. Win win. Lockdown to gain control of numbers and support those affected by lockdown. A lot of businesses have been barely treading water because people aren't coming out anymore due to fear of the virus. This is best for a lot of them.

I guess leaving it up to the individual was the right call then

 

[Yukon Joe]

Europe indicates that even with ample resources, the wealth of nations, in countries that are possibly best designed to handle any crisis, they can't handle this and the virus spreads and wreaks its impact to somewhat greater or lesser degree. I mean the best you can do is mitigate, but the virus runs its course. The virus now also down in much of Europe as it ran its course. Interestingly not much difference in patterns in countries in Europe with strict or more moderate restrictions. Countries like Italy, Spain, could do anything, no matter how restrictive, and were not spared.

I dunno man. I mean I agree once the virus is out in the population we can't lockdown our way to zero (unless you're an isolated island). But you seem to just be promoting a "take the punch" strategy which doesn't sound like it's going to be any more successful either.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I dunno man. I mean I agree once the virus is out in the population we can't lockdown our way to zero (unless you're an isolated island). But you seem to just be promoting a "take the punch" strategy which doesn't sound like it's going to be any more successful either.

Nah, I've given up that this can be contained once it spreads. Its inexorable. tbh I feel wrecked for everything going on, the massive pain and suffering, on what is relentless anyway. I mean I'll continue to do everything, as I always have and the wife and I will continue to isolate, distance, not go anywhere except outside, and now with decreasing ability to even go outside.

But with the latest round of restrictions If I'm having these kind of thoughts (and my disposition is pretty solid overall) I can't imagine what people that are struggling with anxiety, mental health, depression, sadness are feeling right now.

My friends and loved ones, many of whom I can't even see right now and are not allowed to, are suffering, not doing well with this. What can I do? Now you talk to those people that have been struggling for several months after things just got worse, again, yesterday, and you tell them to hang on, hold on, things will get better. Essentially what you been saying on auto repeat for 8 or more months. They of course don't believe me. I dunno. i really don't know. I'm out of answers and things to say.

Last week I couldn't even go to a funeral that wasn't able to happen. It hits man. Somebody that was another great person that gave their whole life to helping others, that person retires, finally has time for themself, and promptly dies. Nobody can even pay respects. Thats one story among Millions of people that have died through this without funerals, without being able to even say good bye.

I mean we're saying to kids you can't go to school after next week, we don't know when schools will ever open again. you can't see your friends, any time, anyway, not indoors, not outdoors. you can't have Xmas. We're doing all this to save ourselves. I dunno. I've finally lost the script. I supported a lot of restrictions, I did, I stopped supporting them yesterday, even though I'll follow through if that makes any sense.

The thing I wonder is why we are imposing draconian level of restrictions when the pandemic here is nothing as bad as in the locations that have had to impose severe lockdown.

But conceptually with these measures, I've lost the script, I'm not getting how yesterday measures will work better than the Nov 24 measures, its just more punitive, more absolutely shutdown, and taking Christmas and hope away from families and kids. I can't support the latter, although again I'll comply...

the gut punch already happened. Yesterday though it seemed like a knockout blow.

I try to joke around, keep spirits up, every day that gets harder to do.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I was not on the conspiracy train that this was all planned until i looked at the flu cases.

Supposedly the flu has disappeared and Covid has remained. Are certain hospitals listing flu hospitalizations as Covid to get more funding from the government? It seems odd that we managed to cure the flu.

I understand that less people will get the flu now that we are kind of keeping to small groups and not going out as much, but to eliminate it completely is miraculous and its a big step forward for humanity.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I was not on the conspiracy train that this was all planned until i looked at the flu cases.

Supposedly the flu has disappeared and Covid has remained. Are certain hospitals listing flu hospitalizations as Covid to get more funding from the government? It seems odd that we managed to cure the flu.

I understand that less people will get the flu now that we are kind of keeping to small groups and not going out as much, but to eliminate it completely is miraculous and its a big step forward for humanity.

Dude - they have tests for Covid, and for the flu. They don't just fraudulently make this stuff up. Plus hospitals do not get money per diagnosis.