OT: Coronavirus XXXI: Tighter Alberta Restrictions Through The Holiday Season, Stay Safe Everyone

[soothsayer]

I have a bone to pick this morning with anyone who has proudly flouted wearing masks or rejected any sort of measure whatsoever to curb the spread, I'll tell you what.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I have a bone to pick this morning with anyone who has proudly flouted wearing masks or rejected any sort of measure whatsoever to curb the spread, I'll tell you what.

who are you talking about specifically?

 

[bone]

www.yegihc.com/supporters

I see 40-50 people thinking they should get so many benefits that they'd be in better shape than they were pre-Covid. I appreciate the need for support, but their demands seem quite excessive.

 

[soothsayer]

who are you talking about specifically?

Does anyone posting here still hold this position? The few I've seen who laughed at people for wearing masks and said they'd never change their behavior haven't posted in awhile, from what I can tell.

So I'm just airing a grievance.

 

[Little Fury]

I see 40-50 people thinking they should get so many benefits that they'd be in better shape than they were pre-Covid. I appreciate the need for support, but their demands seem quite excessive.

Based on...?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Does anyone posting here still hold this position? The few I've seen who laughed at people for wearing masks and said they'd never change their behavior haven't posted in awhile, from what I can tell.

So I'm just airing a grievance.

no
I think 99% of the people here follow the rules accordingly

 

[ThePhoenixx]

No, what was considered silly was the idea that such passports were part of a bigger and more nefarious plot to...well, it's never really clear what the endgame of the conspiracy was, but most people here acknowledged the possibility that some proof of vaccination would be required for certain activities.

Most? Back in the summer, hmmm? A few were hoping. No matter. Quibbling over what is not important. I wonder why?

I didn't think you would have any problem with it at all. I wonder who gets them first?

Want to go to a movie? A few dollars and a few connections will get you there. It will be your choice. A real needle from someone in the know or just a fake passport. Those ushers cant tell the difference. Unless they allow all the theatres in the country to have access to your medical records...

Want to take the kid to a museum? Not until she gets jabbed next fall you don't. Poor and have to wait in line? No connections? Not in a certain block? Don't want to get the vaccine? Too bad. You will be punished.

Those under twelve are now ordered to never go to a movie again.

I have wondered during this pandemic how far the majority will go to keep themselves safe as the people in charge keep their ears to the ground. What will the majority subject other humans to in order to accomplish that? It is going to be the subject of books and articles for decades to come just as the phenomenon of those who refuse to wear a mask or believe the virus is real.

Anyway. Back to doing what our democratic leaders have ordered.

 

[soothsayer]

no
I think 99% of the people here follow the rules accordingly

That's what I think too. At least the posters here agree on some first principles, which is nice. ( So, yeah, just airing a grievance. Upset and annoyed--not at Kenney--about these new lockdowns.)

 

[bone]

Based on...?

Basically their whole premise is we pay absolutely nothing for the duration of the pandemic, you give us a whole bunch of free money to weather the storm of the pandemic, and you continue to give us additional free money for two months after the pandemic is declared over to make sure we're okay after the pandemic. Oh and while you do that, no one is permitted to take any objection to how we operate for months after we reopen.

I may be oversimplifying it and some of the ideas seem reasonable, but all of them together look excessive.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Does anyone posting here still hold this position? The few I've seen who laughed at people for wearing masks and said they'd never change their behavior haven't posted in awhile, from what I can tell.

So I'm just airing a grievance.

I missed that. Who said they would never wear a mask? Additionally, if they haven't posted in a long time then why are you suddenly looking for them here?

 

[Little Fury]

Basically their whole premise is we pay absolutely nothing for the duration of the pandemic, you give us a whole bunch of free money to whether the storm of the pandemic, and you continue to give us additional free money for two months after the pandemic is declared over to make sure we're okay after the pandemic.

And? Again, your claim was they would be better off as a result, but clearly you have no proof of that since all of these businesses have likely suffered huge losses during this year.

 

[soothsayer]

I missed that. Who said they would never wear a mask? Additionally, if they haven't posted in a long time then why are you suddenly looking for them here?

 

[bone]

And? Again, your claim was they would be better off as a result, but clearly you have no proof of that since all of these businesses have likely suffered huge losses during this year.

For which they've asked to be compensated for. Making them whole again.

 

[Little Fury]

For which they've asked to be compensated for. Making them whole again.

Made whole /= better off

 

[bone]

Made whole /= better off

Can they guarantee they'd have made the same had the pandemic not occured?

And what about the extra assistance once they reopen since they are assuming they would have not seen any change in their business.

 

[Little Fury]

Can they guarantee they'd have made the same had the pandemic not occured?
And what about the extra assistance once they reopen since they are assuming they would have not seen any change in their business.

I assume the extra assistance is to help them stay afloat once they reopen and start incurring costs again, but not necessarily the same amount of revenue.

Obviously they are reaching for the sky because who starts with their worst offer?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Just bugging ya.

Cool gif.

 

[Little Fury]

Most? Back in the summer, hmmm? A few were hoping. No matter. Quibbling over what is not important. I wonder why?

I didn't think you would have any problem with it at all. I wonder who gets them first?

Want to go to a movie? A few dollars and a few connections will get you there. It will be your choice. A real needle from someone in the know or just a fake passport. Those ushers cant tell the difference. Unless they allow all the theatres in the country to have access to your medical records...

Want to take the kid to a museum? Not until she gets jabbed next fall you don't. Poor and have to wait in line? No connections? Not in a certain block? Don't want to get the vaccine? Too bad. You will be punished.

Those under twelve are now ordered to never go to a movie again.

I have wondered during this pandemic how far the majority will go to keep themselves safe as the people in charge keep their ears to the ground. What will the majority subject other humans to in order to accomplish that? It is going to be the subject of books and articles for decades to come just as the phenomenon of those who refuse to wear a mask or believe the virus is real.

Anyway. Back to doing what our democratic leaders have ordered.

 

[bone]

I assume the extra assistance is to help them stay afloat once they reopen and start incurring costs again, but not necessarily the same amount of revenue.

Obviously they are reaching for the sky because who starts with their worst offer?

Fair enough. But when someone starts with too extreme of an offer, the others side just walks away and will just ignore after that.

I'm all for supporting businesses through this, but when a group goes too far they could be hurting their cause rather than forwarding it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

www.yegihc.com/supporters

So what are you even disputing about the supporters or what was raised that all these proprietors are simply looking at a cash grab to save their operations during a pandemic.

Several of these tried to remain open. They were getting poor customer numbers. Almost all of these are expensive places, where anybody would pay more to eat in their establishments, and increasingly in a post peak, post pandemic world how many people even eat in any of these or can afford to.

This is like a list of failed business models. Some of these restaurants are very good, Sabor for instance, but very expensive. Not even 1% of consumers would be impacted if a lot of these just had to close.

Many of these businesses, even the ones with pretty good food struggled to retain business even prior to the pandemic. How many people in an Alberta busted economy, pre pandemic, could even afford to eat in these places?

Several similar establishments went broke pre pandemic. Places like Hardware Grill, Chefs table, 1915 pub. Normands closing their Citadel Theater location because they were maybe getting 20 customers a night and nothing but empty tables, for years prior to the pandemic.

The big picture is that the Edmonton Economy has changed drastically. Oil boom bust engines went bust. Every proprietor on this list knows that, and that premium restaurant times in this city are tough, in a super competitive market where simply too many of these places exist and too few customers with deep enough pockets exist.

Even at Rogers Place Atlas Steak and Fish was a heavily pumped expensive start up there. On any given night, any time, any event, any game you could walk in there and get a table. Never full, never even busy. Overpriced fare, nothing fantastic, busy noisy environment, people just didn't want to go there and throw money away which is even ironic considering its located adjacent to a casino and a pro arena..

Meanwhile Match resto on the main level always busy. Affordable pricing. Casual wear, not stuffy, not pretentious like so many of these other places.

Some of these places had a good future here. Rostizados, Tres Carnales but rusty had lease problems and inflated costs due to that. Basically many of the restos on 104st have suffered immense problems as people just don't want to eat there and pay the prices. I find it funny that Blue Plate Diner are on the list looking for a handout. They had already closed operations. Probably some more like that on the list. Blue Plate was getting miserable customer volumes for years. They couldn't afford the 104st pricing structures. They packed bags. Then they started some dismal establishment in Glenora that never caught on.

Its almost predictable who all is on that list.

But thanks for letting us know a list of several establishments we will never go in again as they all have their hands out for cash bail outs. Front of line.

 

[Kirby]

Can they guarantee they'd have made the same had the pandemic not occured?

And what about the extra assistance once they reopen since they are assuming they would have not seen any change in their business.

I think you are missing the point. The businesses (and subsequently employees working for those businesses) are being asked to stop all or a significant part of there revenue generating activities in order to assist with the Public Health Crisis. Businesses and people want to comply; however, concessions are required on the other side to allow these businesses to comply without being driven to closure, and for employees to survive should these business no longer having money to pay them. If the closure was 100% the decision if the business and not that of mandated restrictions, then they would have no leg to stand on. But when they are legally required to stop operating 35-50% (even more in some cases) of there business, it would seem fair for concessions be made to allow the business to sustain through this period and come out the other side in a reasonable position. Being forced into crippling debt before you can reopen, and then hoping that the day you reopen business everything immediately returns to normal is not a reasonable position. At the same time, you shouldn't be making out like a bandit as a result of the support, as this would indicate you didn't need it.

Some of the demands there listing are extreme with the more rational ones sprinkled in between. Should some level of government engage in discussions with this group, this allows the group to start from a negotiating position that allows them to soften on there extreme demands (ones they never actually expected/wanted to get) to obtain the demands they believe are most important. I.e. We will not ask for employee EI support for employees once we open again if you provide us with rent relief/suspension now. If you start negotiations from the position you want to be in, you will never achieve your goals because the other side is going to ask for concessions during the process.

 

[Little Fury]

So what are you even disputing about the supporters or what was raised that all these proprietors are simply looking at a cash grab to save their operations during a pandemic.

The OP said "Their website gives no clue who is included in their ‘membership’". It seemed they didn't read the website so I provided a link.

As for the rest...

 

[Kirby]

So what are you even disputing about the supporters or what was raised that all these proprietors are simply looking at a cash grab to save their operations during a pandemic.

Several of these tried to remain open. They were getting poor customer numbers. Almost all of these are expensive places, where anybody would pay more to eat in their establishments, and increasingly in a post peak, post pandemic world how many people even eat in any of these or can afford to.

This is like a list of failed business models. Some of these restaurants are very good, Sabor for instance, but very expensive. Not even 1% of consumers would be impacted if a lot of these just had to close.

Many of these businesses, even the ones with pretty good food struggled to retain business even prior to the pandemic. How many people in an Alberta busted economy, pre pandemic, could even afford to eat in these places?

Several similar establishments went broke pre pandemic. Places like Hardware Grill, Chefs table, 1915 pub. Normands closing their Citadel Theater location because they were maybe getting 20 customers a night and nothing but empty tables, for years prior to the pandemic.

The big picture is that the Edmonton Economy has changed drastically. Oil boom bust engines went bust. Every proprietor on this list knows that, and that premium restaurant times in this city are tough, in a super competitive market where simply too many of these places exist and too few customers with deep enough pockets exist.

Even at Rogers Place Atlas Steak and Fish was a heavily pumped expensive start up there. On any given night, any time, any event, any game you could walk in there and get a table. Never full, never even busy. Overpriced fare, nothing fantastic, busy noisy environment, people just didn't want to go there and throw money away which is even ironic considering its located adjacent to a casino and a pro arena..

Meanwhile Match resto on the main level always busy. Affordable pricing. Casual wear, not stuffy, not pretentious like so many of these other places.

Some of these places had a good future here. Rostizados, Tres Carnales but rusty had lease problems and inflated costs due to that. Basically many of the restos on 104st have suffered immense problems as people just don't want to eat there and pay the prices. I find it funny that Blue Plate Diner are on the list looking for a handout. They had already closed operations. Probably some more like that on the list. Blue Plate was getting miserable customer volumes for years. They couldn't afford the 104st pricing structures. They packed bags. Then they started some dismal establishment in Glenora that never caught on.

Its almost predictable who all is on that list.

But thanks for letting us know a list of several establishments we will never go in again as they all have their hands out for cash bail outs. Front of line.

A lot of crazy jumps in logic here, and a lot of personal opinion being pushed as fact. These places are to expensive to eat in and are failing. How do I know? Because I won't spend my money there...However this place I really like, and because I like it, it would have been fine and should be applauded...

I've eaten at most of these places, and there is a range of prices there. In all the price categories, some of those businesses were doing just fine pre-pandemic.

The government's decision is not to determine which businesses were poor business models, but to respond to business not having the opportunity to succeed as a result of there closure due to government restrictions (none of which are indicative of a poorly run business or business model). You also have no idea which of these businesses would and would not succeed pre/current/post pandemic, or had the pandemic not happened at all.

 

[Dorian2]

I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here? Government issued immunity passports were considered silly just a few months ago. Are you saying everyone expected this development? Do you really see no issues with such a measure?

I didn't think the odds were high that Ontario would implement such a measure. I wouldn't have bet on it, but I gather you did. I guess that is why I am a not a betting man. Heh.

Not sure how I can reword my post to allow you to understand what I'm saying. Where are you getting that everyone expected this development idea from my post.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Basically their whole premise is we pay absolutely nothing for the duration of the pandemic, you give us a whole bunch of free money to weather the storm of the pandemic, and you continue to give us additional free money for two months after the pandemic is declared over to make sure we're okay after the pandemic. Oh and while you do that, no one is permitted to take any objection to how we operate for months after we reopen.

I may be oversimplifying it and some of the ideas seem reasonable, but all of them together look excessive.

Bang.

Several of these were losing propositions. The ones on 104st squeezed hard by a combination of rent and far less than expected volumes of customers. The closures on that street were being regular before pandemic. Sabors, great place, but frankly nobody going to the Boardwalk anymore in what used to be a great locale before the building was leased out to Center high.

Blue Plate, busted, moved, busted. All before pandemic. lol that they're trying to get pandemic coin out of this. I already mentioned several other establishments closed pre pandemic. Rostizados on record feuding about their lease.

These places weren't making a dime, and even while they tried to remain open and imploring its "safe" ( blatant lie to get people to go go out and eat in person), they're now saying they are closing to respect public health concerns and "please give us your money" A week ago some of these places were still advertising, even TV spots telling people how safe and distanced it was eating in these establishments. Suddenly, pop, these places in an instant are all "oh the pandemic, we can't be open, we all virtuous now and have to stop spread of infection" in an instant..lol bs

I mean this so absolutely rings false. What occurred was a bunch of these owners getting together, all knowing they were making zilch staying open and couldn't even recoup staffing expense, let alone rent and utilities, now wanting to be closed, have all expenses removed, and start getting cheques. I mean I guess I can't blame them for trying. But these establishments trying to get first in the welfare line leaves about as bad a taste in my mouth as a Blue Plate Diner meal..