OT: Coronavirus XXX: Kick His Ass, Sea Bass! (Moderna & Pfizer!)

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Snipes45

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Drinking and smoking yourself to death isn't actively harming the people around you though. Maybe smoking in the form of second hand, but alcoholism isn't something you can spread to others. I do get what you're saying though, and agree to some extent.

I look at masks as simply adding even a 1% protection against covid. It doesn't hurt anyone to wear one where they ask you to wear one. It's hardly an inconvenience unless you refuse to pick one up and have it with you. But all this chatter about infringement of charter rights is absolutely batshit crazy. Complete delusion.
This is the best response I have seen about masks and reasonable. It can be annoying wearing one honestly, but if it can help me prevent Covid even by 2%, I will put one on. Imagine how annoying it is for teachers. My wife wears one most of the day.

I just cannot take anybody seriously when they talk about rights when all we are talking about is a friggin mask. I have repeated it a few times before, but when you see people get this (some old and some young with no underlying issues, you take it more serious). I know a guy who was 41 who died from it. My friends grandma died from it. She was old. No other issues. Why couldn't she live another 10-5 years? She could have.
 

Snipes45

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It is all stupid and selfish.

that being said, should smokers be pushed to the back of the line for cancer treatment? What about people who drink a lot when it comes to liver issues that require hospitalization? What about people who speed that get into accidents, sorry sir if you hadn’t sped then you wouldn’t be busted up right now.

if masks were 100% effective in preventing the virus I think you could totally make a case that they should be denied treatment, but they aren’t and there’s ton of other factors in play.

just wish people would be able to follow simple rules without insisting the government is trying to control them.

We are all wired different, so I try to see the other side. Why does it trigger people so much when the government says to wear a mask? There has to be bigger control issues there? Hate for authority? Why do people go right there? "The government is controlling us". There are lots of things the government makes everybody do, or provides some rules. This is a cloth over our face we are talking about.
 
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joestevens29

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What Covid has really driven home is the sense that we are all in a Earth collective. Nothing quite like a once in a century pandemic, or WW, to drive that home. Moreso every nation, province, etc, are also in their own collective. For the first time in many of our lives we've had to deeply consider how we are impacted by the actions of others. Its whats causing so much of the conflict you see today, or all year.

Live and let live has had its biggest conceptual challenges in 202o.

Strangely there was a *viral epidemic* before Covid of people intentionally tampering with products in stores. Opening ice cream containers, licking them, putting them back, licking whole shelves of canned goods, boxed cereals, yogourts etc. Farting, spitting, burbing on food. Really disgusting stuff and it was a form of in person trolling everybody else. it was sick individuals deriving some sort of satisfaction at the thought that somebody would be in contact with their gross actions.

Increasingly among us we have a growing segment of people that are antisocial, and we're locked in a pandemic with these people.

Other communities experienced this nightmare during the Aids Crisis when it was known that patient zeros were spreaders that had sex with lots of people and perhaps knowing they were ill and others going on to be superspreaders with full knowledge of their condition and still having sexual partners, spreading it and not telling others.

I wonder how much more devastating the pandemic of a century ago would have been if we had all these assholes back then.
A century ago it would've been a helluva a lot harder to spread this thing as quickly as it did this time. By the time ships and shit would've crossed the ocean everyone would've been dead or would've be pass covid
 

Drivesaitl

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We are all wired different, so I try to see the other side. Why does it trigger people so much when the government says to wear a mask? There has to be bigger control issues there? Hate for authority? Why do people go right there? "The government is controlling us". There are lots of things the government makes everybody do, or provides some rules. This is a cloth over our face we are talking about.

The anti authority mind frame starts in Elementary school. It starts the first time a parent marches into their kids elementary school and raises hell with the teachers and principals. Its learned behavior. Parents that do this, or yell at hockey coaches, create so much harm in many ways, entirely without realizing it, and while they believe they have their childs best interests at heart. All they are conveying is to bellow at any authority.

We've raised a nation where this is commonplace. To the degree where you wonder why people even teach, coach, etc anymore.
 

Drivesaitl

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A century ago it would've been a helluva a lot harder to spread this thing as quickly as it did this time. By the time ships and shit would've crossed the ocean everyone would've been dead or would've be pass covid

But it was still travel home from the WW that bred a lot of the global infection around the world. The soldiers bringing the pandemic home with them. Just not as fast as planes. Its not at all the case that soldiers were not transmitting when they got home. Its well known they did. Incubation periods are long enough plus some soldiers would contract this on the rust bucket ship heading home, or on the train (lots of transferred infections there too on packed trains) and bring it home to every city and town in the country. All the travel then tended to be pack em like sardines.

Similarly this year cruiseships also tracked Covid-19 to many port cities around the globe.
 
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BlueCheeseWithWings

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

People who refuse a vaccine for COVID-19 could find normal life curtailed as restaurants, bars, cinemas and sports venues could block entry to those who don't have proof that they're inoculated, Britain's new vaccine minister said on Monday.

Asked if the U.K. would introduce an immunity passport, Zahawi said a person's COVID-19 vaccine status might be included in a phone app, similar to the Test and Trace app used by the National Health Service, that would inform local doctors of a person's status.


For months I have been saying this would come to fruition. No word on how the governments will penalize businesses who open their doors for those who refuse a vaccine, but I am positive they have a plan to ensure it doesn't happen.
 
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GOilers88

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

People who refuse a vaccine for COVID-19 could find normal life curtailed as restaurants, bars, cinemas and sports venues could block entry to those who don't have proof that they're inoculated, Britain's new vaccine minister said on Monday.

Asked if the U.K. would introduce an immunity passport, Zahawi said a person's COVID-19 vaccine status might be included in a phone app, similar to the Test and Trace app used by the National Health Service, that would inform local doctors of a person's status.


For months I have been saying this would come to fruition. No word on how the governments will penalize businesses who open their doors for those who refuse a vaccine, but I am positive they have a plan to ensure it doesn't happen.
This, to me, is more in line with infringement. It actually makes me start to boil a bit when I consider it. I feel like you would have to make every vaccine in existence mandatory to go down this route, and that seems beyond crazy when I say it aloud.
 

Frank the Tank

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The Basavaraju paper I linked earlier has caused quite a stir among the research community. Dr, Bedford in his twitter thread raises a plausible counterpoint - an imperfect assay on a large data set can yield a significant number of false positives. Stay tuned...

 

Drivesaitl

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Its Elise Stolte..

The world over the Covid-19 pandemic is less lethal than the Spring wave by a factor of 9 or 10.

Per case its related to far less serious outcomes now vs the spring.

How is this the worst time to contract covid 19?

I read the article. I read assumptions like Tsunami of new hospital admissions, I read accounts designed to speak to clear emotive rather than being objective information. I know that at least now the medical response here is a bit more informed after 8mths with at least some active treatments. I know as well that there have been many cases where assisted oxygen have seemed to be better option than intubation, which is a probability of death decision.

Yeah, by all means we avoid getting this, its terrible. But people are reasonably intelligent. Maybe our news could stop providing such imbalanced reporting which only creates confusion, and misinformation, and even despair. Why are they manufacturing that beyond hits and sales?

All thats necessary is for the title to change to something like "you never want to get this" That would at least be more honest.
 
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joestevens29

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

People who refuse a vaccine for COVID-19 could find normal life curtailed as restaurants, bars, cinemas and sports venues could block entry to those who don't have proof that they're inoculated, Britain's new vaccine minister said on Monday.

Asked if the U.K. would introduce an immunity passport, Zahawi said a person's COVID-19 vaccine status might be included in a phone app, similar to the Test and Trace app used by the National Health Service, that would inform local doctors of a person's status.


For months I have been saying this would come to fruition. No word on how the governments will penalize businesses who open their doors for those who refuse a vaccine, but I am positive they have a plan to ensure it doesn't happen.

This, to me, is more in line with infringement. It actually makes me start to boil a bit when I consider it. I feel like you would have to make every vaccine in existence mandatory to go down this route, and that seems beyond crazy when I say it aloud.
They've already been hinting at my work that once we can take it, it will probably be mandatory unless you have a medical reason with a doctor provided note.

We already test for pot when you start, while other companies don't. So they'll just tell you if you want to work here you'll have to get the vaccine. With that being said they are also talking about potentially grandfathering people in, but I don't know that they are getting rather far with that discussion.
 
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Delicious Pancakes

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

People who refuse a vaccine for COVID-19 could find normal life curtailed as restaurants, bars, cinemas and sports venues could block entry to those who don't have proof that they're inoculated, Britain's new vaccine minister said on Monday.

Asked if the U.K. would introduce an immunity passport, Zahawi said a person's COVID-19 vaccine status might be included in a phone app, similar to the Test and Trace app used by the National Health Service, that would inform local doctors of a person's status.


For months I have been saying this would come to fruition. No word on how the governments will penalize businesses who open their doors for those who refuse a vaccine, but I am positive they have a plan to ensure it doesn't happen.

If that's the plan you'll see lawsuit upon lawsuit. Regardless of how you feel about vaccines I don't see how the majority of people will accept restriction of freedoms being attached to something that has previously been a matter of choice, and should be a matter of choice. Once you accept that it's a slippery slope down towards a fascist Orwellian police state which unfortunately many companies are chomping at the bit to try to bring to fruition so that they can profit from it.
 

Delicious Pancakes

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They've already been hinting at my work that once we can take it, it will probably be mandatory unless you have a medical reason with a doctor provided note.

We already test for pot when you start, while other companies don't. So they'll just tell you if you want to work here you'll have to get the vaccine. With that being said they are also talking about potentially grandfathering people in, but I don't know that they are getting rather far with that discussion.

Well first off that's discriminatory. Forcing you to take a vaccine that has been rushed through development without the normal safety protocols and human trials for vaccine development and potentially putting your health in peril with side effects that will only become evident upon mass distribution is just asking for a lawsuit. Secondly, doctors aren't giving out doctor's notes even if you do have valid health issues that make you higher risk for Covid so I would imagine it would be just as difficult if not moreso to get a doctor's note to abstain from getting a vaccine especially since like I said they don't even know what the complications and side effects from the vaccine will be.

Also, Operation Warp Speed has made American vaccine manufacturers participating in that program (Pfizer and Moderna included) immune (pardon the pun) to being sued, regardless of whether they're culpable for side effects which might befall vaccine takers because the Operation Warp Speed legislation exempts them from potentially being sued. Not the best method to ensure safety in a vaccine if one of the biggest checks to unsafe vaccine development practices is thrown out the window.
 
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GOilers88

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Well first off that's discriminatory. Forcing you to take a vaccine that has been rushed through development without the normal safety protocols and human trials for vaccine development and potentially putting your health in peril with side effects that will only become evident upon mass distribution is just asking for a lawsuit. Secondly, doctors aren't giving out doctor's notes even if you do have valid health issues that make you higher risk for Covid so I would imagine it would be just as difficult if not moreso to get a doctor's note to abstain from getting a vaccine especially since like I said they don't even know what the complications and side effects from the vaccine will be.

Also, Operation Warp Speed has made American vaccine manufacturers participating in that program (Pfizer and Moderna included) immune (pardon the pun) to being sued, regardless of whether they're culpable for side effects which might befall vaccine takers because the Operation Warp Speed legislation exempts them from potentially being sued. Not the best method to ensure safety in a vaccine if one of the biggest checks to unsafe vaccine development practices is thrown out the window.
I'll amend my previous post about this being more in line of infringement then.

That's the kind of full blown horseshit that will absolutely start a civil war, and I could totally see government trying to go down this route with big business behind them. What better way to start a new world order than making inoculations mandatory to work,shop, or generally go and do anything anywhere in life?

It begins...:sarcasm:
 
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nabob

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Kenney asks Albertans to be 'responsible' while protesting, but does not condemn large rallies | Edmonton Journal

I guess there could be protests arranged at mosques on Fridays and churches on Sundays.

South Asians can gather around in NE Calgary and protest away at plazas or temples.

Gutless government.

“the right to protest is constitutionally protected” that’s all you really need to know. We don’t want a government that treats its citizens like China or North Korea does.


Is this the same article that was posted yesterday or is this a different one? Both seem purely political and this topic has been :deadhorse already.
 
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Snipes45

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I am seeing a bunch of people who claim to work at Home Depot Clareview and LuluLemon Southgate who say a lot of their staff has/had Covid. Casino's as well, especially River Cree. Workers obviously get replaced to quarantine. I don't think a lot of these cases get out. Anybody know how long the virus stays on a surface? When the pandemic started, I remember 2 days or so. I can see a lot happening from businesses and stores. Look how many people touch things and put them back. I bet a lot of people just scratch their face or touch it before sanitizing when they get into the car, etc. It's human nature.
 

Stoneman89

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But it was still travel home from the WW that bred a lot of the global infection around the world. The soldiers bringing the pandemic home with them. Just not as fast as planes. Its not at all the case that soldiers were not transmitting when they got home. Its well known they did. Incubation periods are long enough plus some soldiers would contract this on the rust bucket ship heading home, or on the train (lots of transferred infections there too on packed trains) and bring it home to every city and town in the country. All the travel then tended to be pack em like sardines.

Similarly this year cruiseships also tracked Covid-19 to many port cities around the globe.
The Spanish flu pandemic lasted as long as it did, due to the perfect storm for transmission back in the day. Although people couldn't get from point A to B as quickly as today, the mass of soldiers together on the battlefields were good spots to spread. Then, other soldiers coming home, either in infirmary or otherwise, spread it amoungst more peers. The basic training was another great smoking gun. And then finally, with soldiers coming home to their various countries, the celebrations all over the world over the ending of the war was like a powder keg, and certain spots not taking it seriously (St.Louis had a massive parade and paid the price), it jumped everywhere. Last known case was in 1922, no vaccine ever produced. It just died out.
 
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Stoneman89

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I am seeing a bunch of people who claim to work at Home Depot Clareview and LuluLemon Southgate who say a lot of their staff has/had Covid. Casino's as well, especially River Cree. Workers obviously get replaced to quarantine. I don't think a lot of these cases get out. Anybody know how long the virus stays on a surface? When the pandemic started, I remember 2 days or so. I can see a lot happening from businesses and stores. Look how many people touch things and put them back. I bet a lot of people just scratch their face or touch it before sanitizing when they get into the car, etc. It's human nature.

And that is precisely how you get COVID even when wearing a mask. It's how a bunch of it spread in the Italian hospitals earlier this year, and it's likely the reason for spread in the LTC places. People have a difficult time keeping their hands away from their faces. They forget to frequent wash (a huge thing), especially after coming home from a public place. Wearing a mask is very good. But it's what you do while wearing the mask and what you do before taking it off, etc, that factor heavily in whether you get infected or not.
 
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joestevens29

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Well first off that's discriminatory. Forcing you to take a vaccine that has been rushed through development without the normal safety protocols and human trials for vaccine development and potentially putting your health in peril with side effects that will only become evident upon mass distribution is just asking for a lawsuit. Secondly, doctors aren't giving out doctor's notes even if you do have valid health issues that make you higher risk for Covid so I would imagine it would be just as difficult if not moreso to get a doctor's note to abstain from getting a vaccine especially since like I said they don't even know what the complications and side effects from the vaccine will be.

Also, Operation Warp Speed has made American vaccine manufacturers participating in that program (Pfizer and Moderna included) immune (pardon the pun) to being sued, regardless of whether they're culpable for side effects which might befall vaccine takers because the Operation Warp Speed legislation exempts them from potentially being sued. Not the best method to ensure safety in a vaccine if one of the biggest checks to unsafe vaccine development practices is thrown out the window.
It's really going to come down to either you get it or if you choose not to, then you won't be getting paid if you get sick.

You'll be forced to take a temporary layoff and go on EI.
 

bellagiobob

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Its Elise Stolte..

The world over the Covid-19 pandemic is less lethal than the Spring wave by a factor of 9 or 10.

Per case its related to far less serious outcomes now vs the spring.

How is this the worst time to contract covid 19?

I read the article. I read assumptions like Tsunami of new hospital admissions, I read accounts designed to speak to clear emotive rather than being objective information. I know that at least now the medical response here is a bit more informed after 8mths with at least some active treatments. I know as well that there have been many cases where assisted oxygen have seemed to be better option than intubation, which is a probability of death decision.

Yeah, by all means we avoid getting this, its terrible. But people are reasonably intelligent. Maybe our news could stop providing such imbalanced reporting which only creates confusion, and misinformation, and even despair. Why are they manufacturing that beyond hits and sales?

All thats necessary is for the title to change to something like "you never want to get this" That would at least be more honest.

Title wasn't great, but in general I found the article fine.
 

Snipes45

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And that is precisely how you get COVID even when wearing a mask. It's how a bunch of it spread in the Italian hospitals earlier this year, and it's likely the reason for spread in the LTC places. People have a difficult time keeping their hands away from their faces. They forget to frequent wash (a huge thing), especially after coming home from a public place. Wearing a mask is very good. But it's what you do while wearing the mask and what you do before taking it off, etc, that factor heavily in whether you get infected or not.
Oh ya for sure. Even when we wear a mask, I am sure a lot of people touch their mask, take it off and touch their face without realizing it. Don't wash their mask and out it on again if it had Covid on it.

It's all about washing your hands, staying away from people, and just not touching your face. If you do that, you are good.
 
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