OT: Coronavirus XXX: Kick His Ass, Sea Bass! (Moderna & Pfizer!)

[yukoner88]

No masks??????

Ah yes, where are my manners, please forgive me

 

[SaltNPeca]

This is ICE T talkin to ya boyyy

 

[nabob]

Alberta reports new records in single-day cases, hospitalizations | Calgary Herald


Average Influenza season sees 30 ICU patients. Currently, there are more than triple that # of Covid patients requiring ICU.

It's just a "worse flu" tho to some people.....

Just wondering if you have a source for this or it’s something that someone like Hinshaw or AHS said at some point. Not doubting you, just have a co-worker who thinks it’s a low number because he thinks Covid is just the flu. Would love to be able to show it to him to prove how Covid is more than the flu.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

2021 is the year we all accept Jim Carreys truth.

 

[GOilers88]

Ethicists debate whether anti-mask protestors should forfeit COVID-19 medical care | National Post

And do we actually think any of these people would willingly go to the back of the line when they get sick? Of course not.

The woman with the "Masks are Child Abuse" sign is particularly stupid.

 

[spudboy]

BTW, for those wondering, 2019 in Roman numerals is MMXIX.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Interesting study published today that provides serologic testing evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was circulating in the US at least as early as Dec 2019.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

When cross-refenced against other future study results (e.g., serologic and phylogenetic analyses) we should have a clearer picture in a few years about when the virus began circulating in certain regions.

This chain of Twitter comments by Professor Balloux articulates how muddy the waters can get when perusing the current literature that attempts to trace the history of the virus. Overall, numerous studies with claims supported by strong evidence are required before a conclusion can be reached.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I can’t believe Kenney called out South Asians yesterday. I like the guy, but is trying to commit political suicide?

 

[frag2]

The thread title is XXX. I was promised XXX stuff. Post XXX stuff.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

Ethicists debate whether anti-mask protestors should forfeit COVID-19 medical care | National Post

And do we actually think any of these people would willingly go to the back of the line when they get sick? Of course not.

The woman with the "Masks are Child Abuse" sign is particularly stupid.

I've been arguing this since the beginning. They should have to forfeit their spot, based on their own beliefs - but then again, like you said, zero chance they go to the back of the line. Selfishness is the key driver here, and that's all that matters to these idiots.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I've been arguing this since the beginning. They should have to forfeit their spot, based on their own beliefs - but then again, like you said, zero chance they go to the back of the line. Selfishness is the key driver here, and that's all that matters to these idiots.

they most likely won't take the spike anyways

 

[nabob]

Ethicists debate whether anti-mask protestors should forfeit COVID-19 medical care | National Post

And do we actually think any of these people would willingly go to the back of the line when they get sick? Of course not.

The woman with the "Masks are Child Abuse" sign is particularly stupid.

It is all stupid and selfish.

that being said, should smokers be pushed to the back of the line for cancer treatment? What about people who drink a lot when it comes to liver issues that require hospitalization? What about people who speed that get into accidents, sorry sir if you hadn’t sped then you wouldn’t be busted up right now.

if masks were 100% effective in preventing the virus I think you could totally make a case that they should be denied treatment, but they aren’t and there’s ton of other factors in play.

just wish people would be able to follow simple rules without insisting the government is trying to control them.

 

[Fourier]

Ah yes, where are my manners, please forgive me

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Interesting study published today that provides serologic testing evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was circulating in the US at least as early as Dec 2019.

Serologic testing of U.S. blood donations to identify SARS-CoV-2-reactive antibodies: December 2019-January 2020

When cross-refenced against other future study results (e.g., serologic and phylogenetic analyses) we should have a clearer picture in a few years about when the virus began circulating in certain regions.

This chain of Twitter comments by Professor Balloux articulates how muddy the waters can get when perusing the current literature that attempts to trace the history of the virus. Overall, numerous studies with claims supported by strong evidence are required before a conclusion can be reached.

Thanks for posting this...like many others, I was convinced it was circulating the globe long before it was recognized and it just didn't take the world by storm in 30-60 days. Glad there is starting to be a bit of proof out there to show this is likely the case. I recall the US doing satellite imagery studies from Wuhan and they noticed a big uptick in ER visits to hospitals (the number of cars in the area was their base to go off) near "ground zero" where the virus was suspected to have originated starting as early as late July or August. They compared satellite images of the same areas and the same time frames from 2018 to come to this hypothesis. I found the article and posted it below if any are interested in reading it.

It is certainly not concrete evidence but sure fits the realm of circumstantial. I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence.

Coronavirus: Satellite traffic images may suggest virus hit Wuhan earlier

 

[Raab]

Interesting study published today that provides serologic testing evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was circulating in the US at least as early as Dec 2019.

Serologic testing of U.S. blood donations to identify SARS-CoV-2-reactive antibodies: December 2019-January 2020

When cross-refenced against other future study results (e.g., serologic and phylogenetic analyses) we should have a clearer picture in a few years about when the virus began circulating in certain regions.

This chain of Twitter comments by Professor Balloux articulates how muddy the waters can get when perusing the current literature that attempts to trace the history of the virus. Overall, numerous studies with claims supported by strong evidence are required before a conclusion can be reached.

I've been saying this for awhile, I also believe the virus has already spread through South East Asia and is why they're not seeing much for cases.

 

[NeverForget06]

It is all stupid and selfish.

that being said, should smokers be pushed to the back of the line for cancer treatment? What about people who drink a lot when it comes to liver issues that require hospitalization? What about people who speed that get into accidents, sorry sir if you hadn’t sped then you wouldn’t be busted up right now.

if masks were 100% effective in preventing the virus I think you could totally make a case that they should be denied treatment, but they aren’t and there’s ton of other factors in play.

just wish people would be able to follow simple rules without insisting the government is trying to control them.

I totally agree with this..... people who are anti-mask already give the government a lot of control over their lives and are seemingly fine with it.

For example.... imagine if we didn't need licences to drive, and one day the government said "Now in order to drive you are required to get a licence or we will prosecute you" - People would freak out. But since they grew up with that control they don't care. (Other than the really hardcore freeman of the land people, but you get the point).

I really find most anti-maskers to be highly hypocritical. You think any of them would have an qualms with the government having all their health information if they got sick? Isn't that an invasion of their rights?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Thanks for posting this...like many others, I was convinced it was circulating the globe long before it was recognized and it just didn't take the world by storm in 30-60 days. Glad there is starting to be a bit of proof out there to show this is likely the case. I recall the US doing satellite imagery studies from Wuhan and they noticed a big uptick in ER visits to hospitals (the number of cars in the area was their base to go off) near "ground zero" where the virus was suspected to have originated starting as early as late July or August. They compared satellite images of the same areas and the same time frames from 2018 to come to this hypothesis. I found the article and posted it below if any are interested in reading it.

It is certainly not concrete evidence but sure fits the realm of circumstantial. I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence.

Coronavirus: Satellite traffic images may suggest virus hit Wuhan earlier

kinda scary this highly contagious virus most likely circulated for 3 months unchecked

 

[GOilers88]

It is all stupid and selfish.

that being said, should smokers be pushed to the back of the line for cancer treatment? What about people who drink a lot when it comes to liver issues that require hospitalization? What about people who speed that get into accidents, sorry sir if you hadn’t sped then you wouldn’t be busted up right now.

if masks were 100% effective in preventing the virus I think you could totally make a case that they should be denied treatment, but they aren’t and there’s ton of other factors in play.

just wish people would be able to follow simple rules without insisting the government is trying to control them.

Drinking and smoking yourself to death isn't actively harming the people around you though. Maybe smoking in the form of second hand, but alcoholism isn't something you can spread to others. I do get what you're saying though, and agree to some extent.

I look at masks as simply adding even a 1% protection against covid. It doesn't hurt anyone to wear one where they ask you to wear one. It's hardly an inconvenience unless you refuse to pick one up and have it with you. But all this chatter about infringement of charter rights is absolutely batshit crazy. Complete delusion.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Thanks for posting this...like many others, I was convinced it was circulating the globe long before it was recognized and it just didn't take the world by storm in 30-60 days. Glad there is starting to be a bit of proof out there to show this is likely the case. I recall the US doing satellite imagery studies from Wuhan and they noticed a big uptick in ER visits to hospitals (the number of cars in the area was their base to go off) near "ground zero" where the virus was suspected to have originated starting as early as late July or August. They compared satellite images of the same areas and the same time frames from 2018 to come to this hypothesis. I found the article and posted it below if any are interested in reading it.

It is certainly not concrete evidence but sure fits the realm of circumstantial. I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence.

Coronavirus: Satellite traffic images may suggest virus hit Wuhan earlier

I've been saying this for awhile, I also believe the virus has already spread through South East Asia and is why they're not seeing much for cases.

kinda scary this highly contagious virus most likely circulated for 3 months unchecked

This tweet from Prof Balloux sums up the timeline for SARS-CoV-2. The error bars will tighten up as more studies are conducted and data is cross-refenced against each other.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It is all stupid and selfish.

that being said, should smokers be pushed to the back of the line for cancer treatment? What about people who drink a lot when it comes to liver issues that require hospitalization? What about people who speed that get into accidents, sorry sir if you hadn’t sped then you wouldn’t be busted up right now.

if masks were 100% effective in preventing the virus I think you could totally make a case that they should be denied treatment, but they aren’t and there’s ton of other factors in play.

just wish people would be able to follow simple rules without insisting the government is trying to control them.

Some of it is just common sense. Does the alcoholic get the donated liver transplant or the person that will survive, and have the liver thrive with a transplant. That doesn't even involve ethics, Just proper use of the limited organ resource.

Similarly should a person smoking all their life and with long term scarring of lungs get the Covid ICU bed or a previously healthy person. That too could be considered a probability decision and one gets the bed, as has occurred in countless jurisdictions.

But like I've said before general health care raised the unintended effect of some people not caring for their health. If people had to pay for medical costs right out of pocket, decisions would be made based on money, as occurs some places. Do some people smoke, drink, have lifestyle issues because they figure theres a safety net? who knows.

I've only had a dental plan for 9yrs of my adult life, thats it. Knowing that I've probably taken better care of my teeth then somebody with lifelong coverage. Thats just one aspect.

Heres another one. Lifelong smokers some of them cause so much harm to their lungs, and particularly if they have also been chronic pot smokers, that some of them inevitably reach a level of lack of being able to oxygenate their own blood. They have COPD. Such patients usually have to be in hospital several times per patient and require medication and or breathing apparatus often the rest of their lives. The costs are enormous for this treatment.

UK COPD treatment: failing to progress - The Lancet

These patients get the treatments, everything received, which costs govts astronomical coin on completely avoidable treatments, to people that have simply abused their health their whole lives. In contrast many children with rare conditions, or who require expensive medications, treatments often have to pay out of pocket to save their innocent children or go out of jurisdiction for care. Parents of these children being told the costs of treatment simply can't be borne by Health Care providers due to cost. Is that ethical, balance, fair. I think most people would put greater value on saving the life of the child. Inevitably in Health care services, this dichotomy exists already everywhere in the world, and has before Covid. In terms of healthcare costs and balancing it already is either or provision, and it looks like the person old enough to verbally advocate, and vote, they have more power.

Not to you Nabob, your post just opened up the discussion and just responding generally to the thread and to a look at kind of out of sync disparity that already exists in coverage. Its interesting to consider the huge dilemmas that already exist and how off they seem to be.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Drinking and smoking yourself to death isn't actively harming the people around you though. Maybe smoking in the form of second hand, but alcoholism isn't something you can spread to others. I do get what you're saying though, and agree to some extent.

I look at masks as simply adding even a 1% protection against covid. It doesn't hurt anyone to wear one where they ask you to wear one. It's hardly an inconvenience unless you refuse to pick one up and have it with you. But all this chatter about infringement of charter rights is absolutely batshit crazy. Complete delusion.

OT to the thread, but I think we all realize alcoholism is not victimless, particularly to children of Alcoholics, and the costs can be severe in trauma, abuse, neglect, harm, placement etc. These harms often lifelong and often resulting in the children being either addicts or living their lives as dry addicts with particularly maladaptive behaviors that impact their lives.

I agree that both significantly harm.

Agree as well about discussion of rights in relation to masks. Its kind of silly. One has to boil down what pure freedom actually means. Am i free to go to the Superbowl or do I have to have a thick wallet of thousand dollar bills to get in? Can I buy a ticket to a SC final game or do I have to pay 1K for a good seat. Its almost funny that the discussion occurs in free market economy where basically everything we have and don't have is based on ability to pay. Have the bucks, or daddy bucks or high roller credit cards and you get in. I mean I know its a different argument but access anywhere to ticket events, to planes, trains vacations, neighborhoods, housing, etc, its all money. Do we really live in free society? Not really. Ducats provides a level of freedom.

But my point is our whole society and way of life features ample exclusion, and not often people question the relative freedom of it all. Complex issues.

I mean just make it all more simple and wear the mask. It isn't ball and chains.

But nobody should bemoan having to wear a mask to get on a plane. Just do it, this is not a freedom of access issue, 95% of the population of the planet is never getting on that plane, or any plane, for other reasons.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

kinda scary this highly contagious virus most likely circulated for 3 months unchecked

The long term stuff is also scary.

I know the docs have a general timelines for incubation, infection, immunity but I do wonder about repeated exposure and health changing the general diagnosis/advice.

In contrast to a virus like mono that doesn't make any sense....staying in your system for life and not really causing sickness until certain conditions are there

 

[GOilers88]

OT to the thread, but I think we all realize alcoholism is not victimless, particularly to children of Alcoholics, and the costs can be severe in trauma, abuse, neglect, harm, placement etc. These harms often lifelong and often resulting in the children being either addicts or living their lives as dry addicts with particularly maladaptive behaviors that impact their lives.

I agree that both significantly harm.

Agree as well about discussion of rights in relation to masks. Its kind of silly. One has to boil down what pure freedom actually means. Am i free to go to the Superbowl or do I have to have a thick wallet of thousand dollar bills to get in? Can I buy a ticket to a SC final game or do I have to pay 1K for a good seat. Its almost funny that the discussion occurs in free market economy where basically everything we have and don't have is based on ability to pay. Have the bucks, or daddy bucks or high roller credit cards and you get in. I mean I know its a different argument but access anywhere to ticket events, to planes, trains vacations, neighborhoods, housing, etc, its all money. Do we really live in free society? Not really. Ducats provides a level of freedom.

But my point is our whole society and way of life features ample exclusion, and not often people question the relative freedom of it all. Complex issues.

I mean just make it all more simple and wear the mask. It isn't ball and chains.

I understand alcoholism can adversely effect those around you, but the act of drinking isn't directly causing or bringing physical harm to anyone but the one drinking, whereas walking around in a close quartered building when you could potentially be infecting people around you with a virus is immediately and directly endangering their physical health, which is why I think they aren't comparable.

Humans are a very "when it suits me" creatures. Most people will only say and do certain things when it's to their benefit and when it isn't everyone else be damned.

I think covid has really driven that home. One of my friends was a strict follower of the rules up until a month ago when he tested positive for covid. Now his attitude is f*** this and f*** everyone and these stupid restrictions cause I've already had it so I'm good, and it's really mind boggling.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Like many have commented before I want to ponder how early this may have arrived or what would have occurred had this arrived earlier, and without public precautions, closure of huge events etc.

Wife and I do odd semi retirment jobs and were both working in a City facility I won't disclose. But its a huge facility, large square footage, and I'll state that on some days the absolute worst aspect of coming into work in this huge facility is you would walk in, even in the morning before hardly anybody was there, and you could smell the dank air and sickness from tons of people being in there that had something, a cold, or worse, the day and night before. You know that smell when a family member has been in bed sick all day and filled a room with the smell of coughing, sneezing phlegm. That smell. The whole huge facility smelled like that each morning. The place was so loaded with aerosol or contact droplets that it stank. So many staff were getting sick and evidently patrons were as well. Some type of Cold went around Edmonton in December and I would say 60% of our staff group had it at one point. Wife and I both contracted it.

I'm stating this for two reasons. Small possibility that it could be Covid related but large possibility that it sheds light on how even huge facilities can fill up with aerosols, germs, contagion etc if they are extremely high volume, and an epidemic of some sort is so much in general population. I think this indicative of the kinds of Covid storms that went on in US, NY, Spain, Italy, hardest hit places. Every jurisdiction wants to avoid the really large ratios of people having contracted it, which then fills up every facility with potential contagion. At 8% not bad. Shift that to 15-30% or more I wonder how much more every indoor facility gets really contaminated with strong enough dose to spread. Just from the air and all contact surfaces.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I understand alcoholism can adversely effect those around you, but the act of drinking isn't directly causing or bringing physical harm to anyone but the one drinking, whereas walking around in a close quartered building when you could potentially be infecting people around you with a virus is immediately and directly endangering their physical health, which is why I think they aren't comparable.

Humans are a very "when it suits me" creatures. Most people will only say and do certain things when it's to their benefit and when it isn't everyone else be damned.

I think covid has really driven that home. One of my friends was a strict follower of the rules up until a month ago when he tested positive for covid. Now his attitude is f*** this and f*** everyone and these stupid restrictions cause I've already had it so I'm good, and it's really mind boggling.

What Covid has really driven home is the sense that we are all in a Earth collective. Nothing quite like a once in a century pandemic, or WW, to drive that home. Moreso every nation, province, etc, are also in their own collective. For the first time in many of our lives we've had to deeply consider how we are impacted by the actions of others. Its whats causing so much of the conflict you see today, or all year.

Live and let live has had its biggest conceptual challenges in 202o.

Strangely there was a *viral epidemic* before Covid of people intentionally tampering with products in stores. Opening ice cream containers, licking them, putting them back, licking whole shelves of canned goods, boxed cereals, yogourts etc. Farting, spitting, burbing on food. Really disgusting stuff and it was a form of in person trolling everybody else. it was sick individuals deriving some sort of satisfaction at the thought that somebody would be in contact with their gross actions.

Increasingly among us we have a growing segment of people that are antisocial, and we're locked in a pandemic with these people.

Other communities experienced this nightmare during the Aids Crisis when it was known that patient zeros were spreaders that had sex with lots of people and perhaps knowing they were ill and others going on to be superspreaders with full knowledge of their condition and still having sexual partners, spreading it and not telling others.

I wonder how much more devastating the pandemic of a century ago would have been if we had all these assholes back then.