OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part IV - II

[GordonGecko]

Your tax return is just them overcharging you and you not realizing (or maybe intentionally) giving the government an interest free loan for them to pay for all their garbage instead of focusing the tax revenue on the things we really need.

Not for people in business or partnerships , I usually have to send a $20,000 check every April. For most people on payroll there is a withholding formula that employers are required to deduct which is pretty accurate in terms of tax owed on income. When you file your 1040 you are adding a bunch of deductions and that's why you can typically end up with a refund. The IRS probably couldn't operate if it had to chase everyone for their back tax, it's better to collect a little extra and pay it back then have to chase everyone (many of who would have already blown it at the track or at the bar)

 

[NYSPORTS]

Not for people in business or partnerships , I usually have to send a $20,000 check every April. For most people on payroll there is a withholding formula that employers are required to deduct which is pretty accurate in terms of tax owed on income. When you file your 1040 you are adding a bunch of deductions and that's why you can typically end up with a refund. The IRS probably couldn't operate if it had to chase everyone for their back tax, it's better to collect a little extra and pay it back then have to chase everyone (many of who would have already blown it at the track or at the bar)

plus or minus, tell me that’s the day you don’t have a drink regardless lol

i always have a few

 

[eco's bones]

I think Andrew Yang was the first to come up with the idea of $1,000 for every citizen.

It's worth looking at IMO.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm just going to sort of take the easy way out, I like to discuss stuff, yet I find it difficult in this environment.

(I have no financial interests or connection to any of the links I will offer) They just sum up a lot of my views much more eloquently than I ever could.

This is my first read of the day, it's a long read yet it seems pretty balanced and accurate.

Memos from Howard Marks

I think to at least a considerable degree the global markets follow us and even the stronger ones like the Germans who've done a better job with the virus--if we go down they go down--there's just too much interconnection so that some people/some entities are going to have to take a bath and that wealth is going to have to be released into populations so as to not have a global economic meltdown. Value has always been kind of an arbitrary thing whether it's value placed on gold, material goods, real estate or work. It's like with hockey cards what's a Mario Lemieux rookie card really worth?--it really depends on what someone will pay for it and if the market for it is down--way down---it ain't worth much more than its nostalgic value to a Pittsburgh Penguins fan. Printing off two trillion dollars all at one time is just another example of how arbitrary value can be.

The point is to be optimistic here--that being interdependent on each other we have an interest in everyone doing well and if after this is over and this is how other nation states react to the new global economic situation then we should be able to work things out but there is going to have to be a lot of give from upper reaches of wealth to bring up and along those at the bottom or have bottomed out and need a helping hand to restart again. There are choices that are going to have to be taken but I believe we can restructure things so that nobody's left behind. We can remake the world in any image we want it to be.

 

[JimmyG89]

Projections for everything have been off the mark so it is not surprising that the projection of 30K ventilators was off the mark as well, so much that NY State is now sending ventilators to other states.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Projections for everything have been off the mark so it is not surprising that the projection of 30K ventilators was off the mark as well, so much that NY State is now sending ventilators to other states.

another spirited debate comes full circle.

 

[xbure9x]

serious question, but why can't retail be open if they required a mask to be worn while in the store? I ask this question as I had to pick something up from my local Home Depot today and I think it was more crowded than any typical Wednesday afternoon prior to this outbreak. I didn't go in the store to see the density up and down the aisles, but I can't see a retail store being any more crowded than this was today, in fact it should be a lot less crowded. I guess its because everyone is home, so they would all be out and about in the stores instead of home? But if you're going to allow the crowds at Home Depot or target or Walmart, why not open it up to some retail locations, with the caveat of wearing the mask? Would you feel safe walking around Kohls if you were wearing a mask? I've never seen a retail store as packed as this Home Depot was today or a Costco is.

 

[xbure9x]

serious question, but why can't retail be open if they required a mask to be worn while in the store? I ask this question as I had to pick something up from my local Home Depot today and I think it was more crowded than any typical Wednesday afternoon prior to this outbreak. I didn't go in the store to see the density up and down the aisles, but I can't see a retail store being any more crowded than this was today, in fact it should be a lot less crowded. I guess its because everyone is home, so they would all be out and about in the stores instead of home? But if you're going to allow the crowds at Home Depot or target or Walmart, why not open it up to some retail locations, with the caveat of wearing the mask? Would you feel safe walking around Kohls if you were wearing a mask? I've never seen a retail store as packed as this Home Depot was today or a Costco is.

 

[GordonGecko]

But if you're going to allow the crowds at Home Depot or target or Walmart, why not open it up to some retail locations, with the caveat of wearing the mask? Would you feel safe walking around Kohls if you were wearing a mask? I've never seen a retail store as packed as this Home Depot was today or a Costco is.

That's how it's going to go once we come down off this peak. We need a smaller number of infected so the transmission rate doesn't soar again. Some of those people walking out of Home Depot today will be dead in 3 weeks

 

[Off Sides]

I think to at least a considerable degree the global markets follow us and even the stronger ones like the Germans who've done a better job with the virus--if we go down they go down--there's just too much interconnection so that some people/some entities are going to have to take a bath and that wealth is going to have to be released into populations so as to not have a global economic meltdown. Value has always been kind of an arbitrary thing whether it's value placed on gold, material goods, real estate or work. It's like with hockey cards what's a Mario Lemieux rookie card really worth?--it really depends on what someone will pay for it and if the market for it is down--way down---it ain't worth much more than its nostalgic value to a Pittsburgh Penguins fan. Printing off two trillion dollars all at one time is just another example of how arbitrary value can be.

The point is to be optimistic here--that being interdependent on each other we have an interest in everyone doing well and if after this is over and this is how other nation states react to the new global economic situation then we should be able to work things out but there is going to have to be a lot of give from upper reaches of wealth to bring up and along those at the bottom or have bottomed out and need a helping hand to restart again. There are choices that are going to have to be taken but I believe we can restructure things so that nobody's left behind. We can remake the world in any image we want it to be.

While I largely agree with what I think is the spirit of your post, once we start talking about super macro economics to the tune several trillions, intermingled with stuff like the US being the reserve currency, for now at least, I do not have a ton of optimism that there will be no bad consequences. Those consequences may turn up in our generation, the next, or the next, so on and so forth, yet I have trouble imagining how ever increasing debt can keep any country continually prosperous, especially if their gross product does not keep up, if it stagnates or decreases.

 

[xbure9x]

That's how it's going to go once we come down off this peak. We need a smaller number of infected so the transmission rate doesn't soar again. Some of those people walking out of Home Depot today will be dead in 3 weeks

wouldn't wearing masks in all stores by default lower the transmission rate? I know we can't put a value on it, but let's say it halves it (hypothetically). Coupled with people still working from home and schools and sporting events canceled wouldn't that in and of itself mitigate the cases from soaring again like at the beginning?

what does everyone think about a place like Disney or Universal? Can they open for the summer and would they require people to wear a mask? I can only speak for myself, but I have a trip booked to universal for the middle of July. If they were to open but required me to wear a mask in the park, I would do it. It sure would be weird but I really don't think a mask detracts from the experience at a place like that.

 

[eco's bones]

While I largely agree with what I think is the spirit of your post, once we start talking about super macro economics to the tune several trillions, intermingled with stuff like the US being the reserve currency, for now at least, I do not have a ton of optimism that there will be no bad consequences. Those consequences may turn up in our generation, the next, or the next, so on and so forth, yet I have trouble imagining how ever increasing debt can keep any country continually prosperous, especially if their gross product does not keep up, if it stagnates or decreases.

For me we were already heading towards bad consequences as it was. The wealth gap was widening and widening. Young people stuck with loads of college debt--not getting the kinds of work to pay off their loans---putting well off into the future things like buying a home or getting married--having children. We were setting them up for a life of indentured servitude. So there's the potential to take an awful and castastrophic event and put ourselves on another path. One of the points that Naomi Klein made in her Shock Doctrine is that after a disaster there are usually numerous ideas and options lying around to be picked up on the road to whatever recovery takes place afterwards. It's obvious though to me with so many who are going to be out of work--unable to pay for things like rent that what is going to have to happen here is going to have to be very people-centric because letting wealthy entities take the lion's share as per usual is going to absolutely crash the economy and very likely that will lead to some kind of societal revolt--whatever form(s) that takes. Now I don't like a whole lot of politicians but even so I think more of them are realistic enough to see reality than not.

We're also use to certain ideas about society or about the economy that have been with us our entire lifetimes. That doesn't mean though there aren't other ways. To me there are all kinds of unexplored alternatives---sometimes they just need a chance. On our political I'm hearing things from people as diverse as Cuomo, Romney, Hawley that I never thought I'd ever hear before. Some of these people are already kind of brainstorming---nothing is stopping any of us from brainstorming either.

 

[Metranger]

Interesting. Nice to hear an opposing view:

 

[MyLoveIsBlue]

 

[NYSPORTS]

Interesting. Nice to hear an opposing view:

Dr Shiva makes some good points yet is very transparent about his big pharma narrative. It’s not that he’s wrong, he’s actually correct and i believe the world is doing their best while a Fauci is more boiler plate.

Politically and media wise he stated the obvious which the other side never wants hear yet, again, we saw a dope who had her questions written out for her and clearly couldn’t construct a follow up question.

Good to hear a different view regarding the virus while the rest is something the silent know all to well.

 

[Synergy27]

I haven’t analyzed this article in detail but I like its conclusion so I’m sharing it:

 

[NYSPORTS]

I haven’t analyzed this article in detail but I like its conclusion so I’m sharing it:

scary part is everybody in the Western World will get it. We won’t all have symptoms but, my gosh, who the hell wants to wait to get this if we do get symptoms?

 

[Synergy27]

scary part is everybody in the Western World will get it. We won’t all have symptoms but, my gosh, who the hell wants to wait to get this if we do get symptoms?

I’d personally like to delay getting it as long as possible. On the off chance I am symptomatic, is like to have access to care and perhaps new, effective treatments that are still in development.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I’d personally like to delay getting it as long as possible. On the off chance I am symptomatic, is like to have access to care and perhaps new, effective treatments that are still in development.

good point

for a while i was thinking the opposite. Get it before the hospitals get over run so i don’t get locked out.

i like your strategy better.

 

[GordonGecko]

I’d personally like to delay getting it as long as possible. On the off chance I am symptomatic, is like to have access to care and perhaps new, effective treatments that are still in development.

I just got mostly over it, and I can tell you that it f's with your mind more than anything. Anxiety was the most painful symptom for me

 

[Synergy27]

I just got mostly over it, and I can tell you that it f's with your mind more than anything. Anxiety was the most painful symptom for me

You know for a fact that you had it? Well f*** man.

 

[GordonGecko]

You know for a fact that you had it? Well f*** man.

I was able to get my hands on an antibody test from a colleague that I'm going to take in the next week or so to confirm. So I can't say 100% but the symptoms I had, mainly of a feeling of burning and swelling in my lungs, I have never felt before in my life and it was life nothing I've ever had. I couldn't get a full PCR test anywhere, every number I called I had to go through a full interview and the result was always the same, sounds like you have it but we can't test you unless you're basically close to death, just stay home isolate and get better kthx

 

[NYRFANMANI]

every number I called I had to go through a full interview and the result was always the same, sounds like you have it but we can't test you unless you're basically close to death, just stay home isolate and get better kthx

Jesus effing Christ ... be safe guys!

 

[Barnaby]

I was able to get my hands on an antibody test from a colleague that I'm going to take in the next week or so to confirm. So I can't say 100% but the symptoms I had, mainly of a feeling of burning and swelling in my lungs, I have never felt before in my life and it was life nothing I've ever had. I couldn't get a full PCR test anywhere, every number I called I had to go through a full interview and the result was always the same, sounds like you have it but we can't test you unless you're basically close to death, just stay home isolate and get better kthx

Brutal... glad you made it to the other side. That’s very similar to what a few people told me that had it. I was exposed to it recently so I just have my fingers crossed.

 

[Barnaby]

serious question, but why can't retail be open if they required a mask to be worn while in the store? I ask this question as I had to pick something up from my local Home Depot today and I think it was more crowded than any typical Wednesday afternoon prior to this outbreak. I didn't go in the store to see the density up and down the aisles, but I can't see a retail store being any more crowded than this was today, in fact it should be a lot less crowded. I guess its because everyone is home, so they would all be out and about in the stores instead of home? But if you're going to allow the crowds at Home Depot or target or Walmart, why not open it up to some retail locations, with the caveat of wearing the mask? Would you feel safe walking around Kohls if you were wearing a mask? I've never seen a retail store as packed as this Home Depot was today or a Costco is.

Eventually - probably sooner than later - that’s what I think is going to happen. They’ll throw a caveat out that anyone who falls into a high risk category or shows symptoms should stay quarantined. Unfortunately, our economy can only deal with a complete shut down for so long. Also, too many people won’t abide by the rules and/or will be doing stupid things like touching their phones with gloves etc...