Coronavirus - CoVID-19 - Part 3 - Arizona is kinda open now

[rt]

My father (high-risk) apparently went out to get his haircut the first morning and said there was already a line at seven. I asked if he wore a mask, and he cursed me and repeated his mantra that if it gets him, it gets him. My mother is a germaphobe, but wanted to get together for mother's day with everyone. She said she'd rather not live a prisoner, and quality of life was more important to her than avoiding a virus she'd probably still live through.
On the other hand, we're all glad that my grandmother pushing 100 is under lock down at the assisted living facility, even though she also has a rather fatalistic view of the whole thing.

Mask use is on the rise though. I think most people using masks are doing it because they care. I'm not against people choosing to use masks. I just think they are marginally effective against viruses at best, especially when most people using them seem to have no idea how to use them. At worst they are another potential vector when people don't know how to use them. Like gloves.

What does this mean? Most people? What are you observing out there? I honestly don’t know. I haven’t been anywhere.

 

[cobra427]

Jakey..... you understand the primary purpose of the masks are to prevent the person wearing the mask from transmitting the virus to others. Not the other way around.

You could be infected right now and not even be aware of it..... not show any symptoms..... and maybe never do because you followed Cobra's healthy guy nutrition guide to the letter..... or have some super duper human gene that makes your immune system a CoVID terminator. But you could still end up transmitting the disease to others. Like the guy in Hong Kong who felt so invincible he went bar hopping one night and ended up infecting 40 other people.

You don't need to be super human to beat this or any other virus, just live relatively healthy, its not rocket science. Like any other virus, if you don't feel well stay away from other people until you are better.I know the argument that you can carry it, not know it, but pass it on to somebody else. This might be true but we can't live our lives being afraid of a ghost. This is big Pharma and their vaccine argument, you might carry the virus, infect somebody else, if you don't get the vaccine.

We can't live our life around what if. This has been a giant scare tactic pandemic, based on flawed medical advise that Trump bought into hook, line, and sinker. Did it save some lives short term, yes. Will it have major short and long term consequences, yes, we don't know how bad it will be yet, nobody knows. This is a taste of communism, keep that in mind when you cast your vote for whoever in any election.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

It’s a free country but not wearing a mask when in proximity to others is the ultimate act of selfishness.

It’s also free to avoid and shame those who won’t wear a mask.

In my office any adult who refuses to wear a mask is refused service and the family is directed to the nearby urgent care.

 

[MIGs Dog]

most people using them seem to have no idea how to use them

I'm no expert, but something doesn't look right.

 

[_Del_]

What does this mean? Most people? What are you observing out there? I honestly don’t know. I haven’t been anywhere.

If I had a nickel for all the people I've seen wearing masks that don't seal, or pulling them up or down to speak, etc I'd be a very wealthy man. This includes nurses on the TV!
Examples: I went to deliver supplies to my grandmother. I have to check in before I enter (temperature, id, etc), and I have to wear a mask. I cannot go beyond the lobby; I leave stuff with the desk.
One of the ladies is wearing a cloth mask that does not fit her face. Useless. One is wearing a surgical mask. Slightly better. One guy who walks in while I'm talking to them enters with his mask below his nose. They say nothing to him (while I'm there at anyrate). I actually went to a store last week for the first time in probably a month because my online order struck out on bread. Employee pulls down their mask to talk to customer. Complains about mask, then fiddles with it again, touching the inside of his mask while putting it on.
I'd say about a quarter of the healthcare workers on tv are wearing masks that aren't properly fitted. Maybe supplies are limited, and they don't have availability, I don't know. But I do know an improperly fitted mask is useless, because I had it hammered into me when my job frequently involved heavy metal particulates.
I don't say anything to anybody, because I assume that most people are doing what they feel is right, like my mother who wears a mask, wipes everything with bleach, "quarantines" everything coming into her house in the garage, etc
But I do chuckle occasionally.

 

[_Del_]

It’s also free to avoid and shame those who won’t wear a mask.

I support your right to act whatever way makes you get a narcissistic high and to set your own practices at a business even though you know a cloth mask is essentially useless.

 

[doaner]

It’s a free country but not wearing a mask when in proximity to others is the ultimate act of selfishness.

It’s also free to avoid and shame those who won’t wear a mask.

In my office any adult who refuses to wear a mask is refused service and the family is directed to the nearby urgent care.

I totally disagree with you. It’s not selfish at all. You have the right to stay home as much as anyone else has the right to not wear a mask. It’s sad that you would shame someone who decides to use their free will to not wear a mask. But hey, that’s just me (and a whole lot of other people).

 

[MIGs Dog]

February
“At this time we are not recommending that people wear masks when they are in public...There is no hard evidence that wearing a mask protects the wearer outside of the healthcare setting.” - Massachusets Department of Public Health

March
"The only people who need to wear a face mask are those who are sick or are caring for someone who is sick" - CDC

"We do not recommend mask wearing for healthy members of the general population." - WHO

April 6th
"There was no evidence that wearing a mask in the community prevented healthy people from picking up respiratory infections including Covid-19" - WHO

Today
"Experts, medical professionals — even Nobel Prize winners — are urging governors in an open letter to mandate that anyone in public or at work wear masks" - CNN

How often are we told to "listen to the experts?" No wonder people are skeptical.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

If we can ban people from going to work, why not ban them from drinking alcohol? (I know...we tried before)

88k alcohol related deaths per year.

How many people wearing a mask regularly throw back a few brews without concern?

Or the elephant in the room...tobacco.

480k smoking related deaths per year.

Two of the things that really piss me off about socialized medicine. Used to just love the Obama care bumper stickers on the cars that had smoke billowing out of them!

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Coronavirus outbreak escalates at Mingus Mountain Academy

I believe there are countless numbers walking around positive, that have no idea they are. That is why isolation of the high risk is the only sensible option. And by high risk, I'm referring to the elderly only, particularly those with underlying conditions. That should leave plenty of hospital space for any that contract it and need the bed.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Jakey..... you understand the primary purpose of the masks are to prevent the person wearing the mask from transmitting the virus to others. Not the other way around.

You could be infected right now and not even be aware of it..... not show any symptoms..... and maybe never do because you followed Cobra's healthy guy nutrition guide to the letter..... or have some super duper human gene that makes your immune system a CoVID terminator. But you could still end up transmitting the disease to others. Like the guy in Hong Kong who felt so invincible he went bar hopping one night and ended up infecting 40 other people.

Legend.... you do understand that the majority of the "masks" folks are wearing are nearly useless?

 

[_Del_]

How often are we told to "listen to the experts?" No wonder people are skeptical.

WHO guidance today:

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

When and how to use masks

But now everyone is on the mask train because the same organization that admitted it lied to scare you with models now is saying, "sure, wear an ineffectual mask. You'll protect other people. "

Even surgical masks aren't approved for occupational hazard conditions by NIOSH... Part of the CDC. Lol

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I support your right to act whatever way makes you get a narcissistic high and to set your own practices at a business even though you know a cloth mask is essentially useless.

Perhaps you think that the cloth mask is meant to protect the wearer. The mask is to protect those With whom the wearer comes in contact. The cloth catches Some expelled globs of mucous and saliva before they can fracture to the micron level. The mask decreases both the velocity and reach of expelled particles.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I totally disagree with you. It’s not selfish at all. You have the right to stay home as much as anyone else has the right to not wear a mask. It’s sad that you would shame someone who decides to use their free will to not wear a mask. But hey, that’s just me (and a whole lot of other people).

Nonsense. It’s supremely selfish to not wear a mask. Many have no choice but to venture outside their homes. You know that.
It is such a shame that some Americans have abandoned their sense of social responsibility in favor of a “every man for himself” behavior. Worse so that such selfishness is is painted with the colors of liberty and freedom.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Going through yesterday’s testimony I found it interesting that Dr Bright said he was told that mask policy would be tailored to availability. The public would be told they weren’t necessary if they weren’t available.
I wonder if, had our government been on the ball, there would have been far less death and we could have opened far sooner. We should have had contact tracing and testing like in S Korea.

 

[TheLegend]

Legend.... you do understand that the majority of the "masks" folks are wearing are nearly useless?

Yes I do..... but something is better than nothing and understand there’s also a psychological aspect to this.

Masks / face coverings are the way out of lockdowns whether you want to believe that or not.

 

[TheLegend]

I support your right to act whatever way makes you get a narcissistic high and to set your own practices at a business even though you know a cloth mask is essentially useless.

Narcissistic highs come from believing you’re invincible.

This disease has already claimed plenty of people who ran exclusively on that high.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Yes I do..... but something is better than nothing and understand there’s also a psychological aspect to this.

Masks / face coverings are the way out of lockdowns whether you want to believe that or not.

I along with just under 500 others here, have been working since all this started and not one has become ill. The psychological aspect has been brought on by fraudulent claims, of this I am becoming more and more certain.

 

[Jakey53]

Going through yesterday’s testimony I found it interesting that Dr Bright said he was told that mask policy would be tailored to availability. The public would be told they weren’t necessary if they weren’t available.
I wonder if, had our government been on the ball, there would have been far less death and we could have opened far sooner. We should have had contact tracing and testing like in S Korea.

If our Gov't was and the ball they would not have shut down the country. Trump had no choice, next time he will. The country will never close down again, you can bet on that. Who cares about the testing. The results are so false it's really laughable. The WHO and the like are in this for the money and will do any scare tactic they can to panic the people. Corruption all around. They don't care about you or I, it's all about $$$ for them.

 

[SniperHF]

South Korean style tracing is not viable in a country of 50 semi-to-very sovereign states.


One thing I'm pretty still in favor of vis-a-vis lockdowns is limiting tourism, so I'm super excited for all the lockeddown cities residents coming over here to escape.......

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think that the reason for isolation is because at this point, the spread is about how the virus can mutate. As people are made aware, there are mutations of this virus - this is how it has been figured out that something like 70% of cases that came to the U.S. via Europe and specifically, entry via New York City.

If we can guarantee that no other mutation can happen, then maybe we are okay to re-open. I have my doubts that it is done mutating and that we are aware of all complications. Some individuals that survive may have decreased lung function that makes them overly sensitive in this time.

Personally, I think people have trouble distinguishing between rights and allowances. To me, a stay at home order isn't violating rights. I am posting on this site right now, which constitutes freedom of speech. If I would like to be in prayer, I could turn on the radio or read any book of worship that I choose on my own, so freedom of religion isnt violated (although I will acknowledge that religion is likely better practiced as a familiar group). But again, that is an allowance that under normal circumstances is acceptable. These are not normal circumstances, which brings us to right to work and things like that.

Economies are cyclical. In times where force majeure should be applied, I do think that the government has the ability to alleviate the effects of the removal of that right. Whether this government is capable of agreeing on the right way to do so is far more concerning than the premise that our rights are being "violated."

 

[MIGs Dog]

The mask is to protect those With whom the wearer comes in contact.

Makes sense to me, but still. the WHO says "there is currently no evidence that wearing a mask (whether medical or other types) by healthy persons in the wider community setting, including universal community masking, can prevent them from infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19."

Twitter says they will remove tweets that contradict "expert" health guidance. I guess all of those governments tweeting about wearing masks should be flagged.

 

[MIGs Dog]

One thing I'm pretty still in favor of vis-a-vis lockdowns is limiting tourism

I know the extra traffic sucks, but "(the) total economic impact from visitors to Greater Phoenix in 2017 was nearly $14 billion"

That revenue represents a @#$% load of jobs.

Phoenix Tourism Stats & Facts

 

[SniperHF]

I know the extra traffic sucks, but "(the) total economic impact from visitors to Greater Phoenix in 2017 was nearly $14 billion"

Any restriction will cost something. Travel, particularly out of areas more affected, is something I see as on the net-positive side of the ledger and pretty easily. It doesn't need to be until August or something, but another month or so while we let the local economy rebound seems reasonable to me.

I was never for a complete stay at home order, but quite a lot of preliminary research about the spread is showing how much of a cluster f*** people spreading around, and then leaving New York was in terms of screwing everyone else over. We don't need more of that.

 

[CoyoteDave]

I would like to see some different statistics. Give me a breakdown by age of death rates for one year. Then compare that to COVID 19. So for example, 6% of 70 to 80 year olds die normally in a year, then the 8% death rate from COVID 19 is only an increase of 2%. (% made up, no idea actual #s). We MAY be doing damage to the economy for nothing.