Cooperstown 2017 (Selig, Scherholz, Pudge, Bagwell, Raines elected to HoF)

Terry Yake

Registered User
Aug 5, 2013
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so this basically means hoffman is getting in next year

:shakehead

trevor hoffman will be in the HOF before guys like bonds, clemens, mussina, martinez :laugh:
 

Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
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Just some random thoughts:

I'm confused about Pudge's induction since he was likely juiced for most of his career

If Raines (69.1 WAR) belongs in the Hall of Fame, Kenny Lofton (68.2) should be in as well

And there's no justification for Edgar finishing ahead of Larry Walker in voting. Even if you don't want to give him full credit for his 3 batting titles because he played at Coors Field, the guy still has 7 Gold Glove awards on his mantel
 

Big Poppa Puck

HF's Villain
Dec 8, 2009
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It's funny how far the "SAVES!" narrative goes. Billy Wagner was better than Trevor Hoffman and only got 10.4% of the vote while Hoffman missed by only 5 votes and seems like a lock to get in next year while Wagner will probably never make it.

Wagner is better than Hoffman in every statistical category besides saves and played almost 200 less games. He even has more strikeouts.

Now I don't think neither are HoFers but I don't see how you elect Hoffman and not Wagner too.
 

Pwnasaurus

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Feb 21, 2003
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It'll take more time to weed out the old guard vote. It's improving, but yeah, I don't think there's any way to avoid Hoffman going in at this point unfortunately.
 

Big Poppa Puck

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It'll take more time to weed out the old guard vote. It's improving, but yeah, I don't think there's any way to avoid Hoffman going in at this point unfortunately.


As it pertains to the old guard. If you're not going to vote for the users at least have proof that they did it. People like Pedro Gomez who won't vote for guys he "suspects" used with no proof **** me off. "Oh Jeff Bagwell had muscles you say? Can't vote for him I guess!"
 

Pwnasaurus

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Feb 21, 2003
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As it pertains to the old guard. If you're not going to vote for the users at least have proof that they did it.

Joel Sherman has had some good comments on the HOF voting (his ballot was probably the best one I'd seen) and when him and a dinosaur like Bill Madden were on MLB Network recently, Madden made a comment about how McGriff and Kent should be in because they played clean against a tainted environment and need to be rewarded.

Sherman asked him how he knows they were clean and how he knows Bagwell and Piazza were not and asked Madden for the urine samples he no doubt was privy to, to make such a statement.
 

Terry Yake

Registered User
Aug 5, 2013
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If bonds/Clemens are so close, why not McGwire.

bonds and clemens were on another level

edgar martinez deserves to be in far more than mcgwire and look at his situation

anyways, i'm just glad raines finally got in and that bonds/clemens look like they'll be getting the call soon as well
 

Blainer114*

Maverick
Jun 8, 2016
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Toronto
Schillings votes dropped apparently, sad that just because of his politicsl opinions he might not get in to the hof. Should be strictly to do with baseball, i guess its ok for ped users to be allowed in but not someone who has political opinions which are apparently the majority
 

Big Poppa Puck

HF's Villain
Dec 8, 2009
20,582
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Joel Sherman has had some good comments on the HOF voting (his ballot was probably the best one I'd seen) and when him and a dinosaur like Bill Madden were on MLB Network recently, Madden made a comment about how McGriff and Kent should be in because they played clean against a tainted environment and need to be rewarded.

Sherman asked him how he knows they were clean and how he knows Bagwell and Piazza were not and asked Madden for the urine samples he no doubt was privy to, to make such a statement.

What's funny about that is hasn't Kent been suspected too at some points? I think I remember that. "He played with Bonds!!11!!"

The rule of 10 really needs to go. The HoF seems to think people are just gonna start voting for everyone on the ballot and it won't be "exclusive" well you still need 75% and not enough voters are going to be stupid enough/a big enough jackass to vote for everyone or more Aaron Sele's for them to get anywhere close to 75%.

All you're doing is hurting the McGriff's/Mussina's/Walker's of the world and also I'm sure some people are using the "ROIDS!!1!" "tiebreak" to keep Bonds and Clemens off if they have more than 10 they'd like to vote for. But in the case of the latter, that's what the Hall wants.



On another note. I was reading some of Jayson Stark's tweets today and he seems to think Andruw Jones is more likely to go the way of Kenny Lofton and Jim Edmonds than ever get in. Which is a shame. He was also pimping Omar Vizquel and a lot of people seemed to agree. I mean I've said in this very thread there's an argument to be made for Vizquel if you really wanted to but I don't think he should come close to getting in on such a stacked ballot.


Next year we're probably looking at Hoffman, Vlad, Chipper and maybe Thome. I expect Edgar to become the new Raines and get in in 2019.
 

No Fun Shogun

34-38-61-10-13-15
May 1, 2011
56,393
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I just meant that a lot of what's hurt Big Mac is steroid accusations.

Sure, but the difference between him and someone like Bonds is that there's merely an argument that McGwire is a hall of famer. Good or bad argument is up for debate. There isn't an argument for Bonds, it's a fact that he should be in the Hall of Fame. He's arguably a top ten, if not top five, if not better, baseball player of all time. Only thing holding him back is all the bridges he burned over the years and a load of voters just not wanting to do the guy any favors at this point.

My expectation is that in a decade or two or slightly more, pretty much all the heavy hitters of the steroid era will get in once all the folks that believe they were wronged by them are dead and/or retired.

That being said, the fact that people still pontificate about the horrors of the steroid era and yet voted for Bud Selig, aka the guy that turned the biggest blind eye to steroid use for years, without any real debate is downright laughable.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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I just meant that a lot of what's hurt Big Mac is steroid accusations.

Those guys are GOAT players and look how much the steroids thing has hurt them. McG has a tremendous resume but isn't close to them so If Bonds and Clemens aren't really all that close then obviously he didn't stand a chance. Plus all of his value came from hitting. Bonds was an excellent overall player for many years so you can't really use the steroids = dingers argument for him as much to prove his value like you could do for McG.

Also to clarify I'm not saying that steroids = dingers but stupid voters will think that.
 

bluesfan94

Registered User
Jan 7, 2008
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Those guys are GOAT players and look how much the steroids thing has hurt them. McG has a tremendous resume but isn't close to them so If Bonds and Clemens aren't really all that close then obviously he didn't stand a chance. Plus all of his value came from hitting. Bonds was an excellent overall player for many years so you can't really use the steroids = dingers argument for him as much to prove his value like you could do for McG.

Also to clarify I'm not saying that steroids = dingers but stupid voters will think that.

Obviously Bonds and Clemens are surefire HOFers.

I just don't see why McGwire shouldn't be in unless you're saying it's because roids.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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Obviously Bonds and Clemens are surefire HOFers.

I just don't see why McGwire shouldn't be in unless you're saying it's because roids.

Because if not for steroids Bonds + Clemens would get 100% of the vote or at least 99% because apparently no one gets 100%. It's ONLY because of steroids that they aren't getting votes. McGwire wouldn't get 100% of the vote so you have the steroid hater voters going against him as well as people who probably just don't think he's an HOFer.
 
Oct 18, 2011
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Pudge was named in Canseco's book and time has proven Canseco's claims have been very accurate.

Now I believe Pudge is a HOF'er but why is there a different standard for him, than other suspected PED users?


Gonna be interesting when Ortiz comes up, he's been tied to them but everyone loves him.

McGwire and Sosa should both be in the HOF, they dragged baseball out of the grave and they should not be treated like outcasts. The commissioner at the time allowed these things to happen and did nothing
 

SladeWilson23

I keep my promises.
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Nov 3, 2014
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My biggest issue is that Manny got more votes than Sheffield. Manny may have been a better hitter than Sheff, but there is undeniable proof Manny was guilty. He failed two tests. With Sheffield, there's only speculation.
 

yada

move 2 dallas 4 work
Nov 6, 2006
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Ita probably good that a few suspected steroids guys like bagwell and pudge get voted im now. It was going to be a joke when david ortiz gets voted in on his 1 ballot. He is a guy rumoured of steroids but the media always glosses over it because hes likeable while bonds and clemens get crucified because theyre richard *****s
 

Voight

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Feb 8, 2012
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If bonds/Clemens are so close, why not McGwire.

Because Bonds is arguably the second best player of all time, Clemens arguably the GOAT pitcher.

Pudge was named in Canseco's book and time has proven Canseco's claims have been very accurate.

Now I believe Pudge is a HOF'er but why is there a different standard for him, than other suspected PED users?

Gonna be interesting when Ortiz comes up, he's been tied to them but everyone loves him.

Just some random thoughts:

I'm confused about Pudge's induction since he was likely juiced for most of his career

It would be really stupid to believe a juicers own word. Yea he played with a lot of the guys he named but then again maybe, just maybe, he was trying to sell his book?

In he end the steroid-era commissioner was inducted so the players should not be penalized for suspected use.
 

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