Controversial Entertainment Opinions/Discussion Thread - Part II

[Spring in Fialta]

I'm not aware that many people actually think/suggest that (other than when making the "You have to really love it to be able to tolerate the failures, so don't do it if you're just after the money" type point). I mean, I definitely think there's reason to be skeptical of people who do it for the money, and for that to be stigmatized, but only because that usually correlates with an uninteresting result.

The point about failure and skepticism are absolutely fair but I vehemently disagree about the stigmatization. You might have less of an interest towards the work but there's no reason someone should be blocked/discouraged from creating art simply because their reasons for doing them don't align with the values of others. I find that to be a pretty horrible way of looking at the process, frankly. For example, if someone hates painting but is ridiculously talented at it and do it because it gives them a lot of money/attention, I'm still glad in a selfish that they're creating work because I enjoy it, even if their reasons for making it aren't very attractive or noble. I mean, to relate this to the conversation I had about this subject, the girl I was speaking with is an actress who works in theater who was telling that in the business - now she might have been exaggerating or it might relate to the scene in Montreal, I don't know, I don't really like watching plays - that if people perceive you to not have respect/value the theater or doing it for the '' wrong '' reasons, you were at risk of getting boxed out from getting work even if you're good at what you do. I found that pretty appalling.

 

[Shareefruck]

Doesn't stigma simply refer to reputation/stereotype/impression rather than accusational certainty? I agree that the scenario you described is appalling. But I don't know that it bothers me that the attitude itself has a bit of a negative stigma surrounding it.

I see it like... there's a negative stigma surrounding people who dress like a slob and act very aloof, disinterested, and flakey. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're doomed to fail, can't achieve impressive results, and therefore should be blacklisted and shouldn't be given the opportunity to prove expectations wrong, but I don't know that this uncertainty alone makes it wrong for that trait (which certainly has some correlation with undesirable results) to be negatively stigmatized. (maybe I'm using that word wrong and it means something more extreme than I think?)

That said, I'm saying that with creatives in mind rather than something more functional/technical like acting.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Doesn't stigma simply refer to reputation/stereotype/impression rather than accusational certainty? I agree that the scenario you described is appalling. But I don't know that it bothers me that the attitude itself has a bit of a negative stigma surrounding it.

I see it like... there's a negative stigma surrounding people who dress like a slob and act very aloof, disinterested, and flakey. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're doomed to fail, can't achieve impressive results, and therefore should be blacklisted and shouldn't be given the opportunity to prove expectations wrong, but I don't know that this uncertainty alone makes it wrong for that trait (which certainly has some correlation with undesirable results) to be negatively stigmatized. (maybe I'm using that word wrong and it means something more extreme than I think?)

That said, I'm saying that with creatives in mind rather than something more functional/technical like acting.

I always felt as if stigmatization implied/included the rejection of the person being stigmatized but I might be wrong. Also, I agree that it is more dissapointing in relation to a creative mind - but then again, I think my example with the painter still applies - whereas with an actor, I'd say the motivation is absolutely meaningless. With an actor, the only question the artist should be asking himself is: Is this tool (the actor) the most effective one in helping me execute and bring my vision to it's conclusion? Now, if he wants to let an actor be part of some facet of the creative process - perhaps character development - that's his perogative but I've always felt as if an actor is an hired hand underneath it all and should behave as such. Their motivation is meaningless to me.

 

[Shareefruck]

It's tough for me because I'm not aware of any person like that, who I don't admire/respect the motivations of, but love their work anyways, just through sheer natural raw talent (raw talent is actually something that I don't care much about, I don't think).

I don't know how directly linked the two are, but, at least to my tastes, I can't help but suspect there's enough of a direct causal relationship between admirable motivations and admirable results that makes general distaste and guilty-until-proven-innocent-dismissal about the value of their potential output seem somewhat justified to me. Not saying that I'd be arrogant enough to want to enforce/dictate that, though.

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap. If he released his newest album in 2001 it would get a 1.5 mics from the Source and he would be as valued in the rap world as Sillk the Shocker.

 

[LaVar]

Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap. If he released his newest album in 2001 it would get a 1.5 mics from the Source and he would be as valued in the rap world as Sillk the Shocker.

By saying almost all, who do you think doesn't suck right now?

 

[tacogeoff]

Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap. If he released his newest album in 2001 it would get a 1.5 mics from the Source and he would be as valued in the rap world as Sillk the Shocker.

I agree. he is extremely overrated but sadly he is one of the better rappers of his generation which is honestly not saying much at all when you compare him to other historic artists that have flourished in this genre during their time periods/generations.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Kendrick Lamar is a better writer than a musician, that's for sure. Still very good music, especially his first two albums.

 

[Shareefruck]

I agree. he is extremely overrated but sadly he is one of the better rappers of his generation which is honestly not saying much at all when you compare him to other historic artists that have flourished in this genre during their time periods/generations.

This is basically how I see it too.

 

[Teemu]

Kendrick Lamar is a better writer than a musician, that's for sure. Still very good music, especially his first two albums.

I find that he's also a pretty good performer, which is a rarity in the genre

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

"Psycho" is an overrated horror film

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I find that he's also a pretty good performer, which is a rarity in the genre

I haven't seen him live or even videos of him performing but that's true. Rap and hip-hop tends to be awful in a live setting.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap. If he released his newest album in 2001 it would get a 1.5 mics from the Source and he would be as valued in the rap world as Sillk the Shocker.

I'm also interested in who you think is good in modern hip-hop.

I find that he's also a pretty good performer, which is a rarity in the genre

I don't think he's a great performer tbh. Sure the visuals are great but if you listen to him he can't do the entirety of most of his verses, yet for some reason (from what I've seen) he doesn't bring on a hypeman to help him out. Compare this with Aesop Rock or the obese DOOM who both can do their entire tracks and often sound better live than on the record.

 

[Augscura]

Newest Kendrick album is the first album I really didn't think was great, its serviceable but its nothing to write home about, I really don't care for rap/hip-hop overall but the first 3 Kendrick albums are terrific in my opinion.

 

[CycloneLaunch]

I would say claiming that there is still a lot of great modern hip hop around is more controversial than the new rap sucks opinion that's been repeated throughout these threads, I would agree there's not as much high end output as the 90s (there's probably only two albums released this decade I would call classics) but there's still plenty of great music coming from the genre.

Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap. If he released his newest album in 2001 it would get a 1.5 mics from the Source and he would be as valued in the rap world as Sillk the Shocker.

This is definitely controversial though.. Silkk the shocker lmao

 

[kingsholygrail]

I can't get into Samurai Jack. I think the show has some beautiful artwork, namely backgrounds, but it does nothing for me.

 

[x Tame Impala]

By saying almost all, who do you think doesn't suck right now?

I still feel like comments like the one you were replying to are made by people that aren't at all hip hop/rap fans. They say it because the particular artist (Kendrick in this case) is popular and they don't like him.

Saying Kendrick is no good is one thing, but then to follow it up and say "most rap sucks" just makes it seem like rap isn't for you and your opinion isn't really relevant

 

[tacogeoff]

I still feel like comments like the one you were replying to are made by people that aren't at all hip hop/rap fans. They say it because the particular artist (Kendrick in this case) is popular and they don't like him.

Saying Kendrick is no good is one thing, but then to follow it up and say "most rap sucks" just makes it seem like rap isn't for you and your opinion isn't really relevant

Disagree. some of us just have a different appreciation for the genre. I have not found much inspiration/creativity/enlightenment in the rap genre in this era.
KL in my view is a good artist but far from a great MC, its not a knock to him and not a popular view. My view isn't because he is "hot" right now, my view is based on previous inspirations, exposure to the genre and artists over the decades it has been around. .



I think he/she is referring to the current stream/era of hip/hop and rap.
"Kendrick Lamar sucks as does almost all current rap"

 

[Shareefruck]

He only said that most current rap sucks, implying that he likes the genre overall-- "Rap just isn't for him" just isn't applicable.

I suppose you can take it one degree further and say that dismissing all of modern rap shows that "modern rap simply isn't for him, therefore his opinion on modern rap isn't relevant", but Jesus Christ, how far can you take that?-- Then every opinion is rendered invalid because it simply points to the fact that whatever it's doing isn't for that person. Relativism and subjectivity gone mad, IMO.

---

But even ignoring that fact, and pretending that he hypothetically was scoffing at all of rap for a second (which he wasn't)-- this is actually one of my biggest pet peeves about the way people react to opinions and I guess it would be another controversial opinion.

The fact that something doesn't work for someone is reason enough for them to think that that something is not good. Similarly, it is valid to have overarching opinions about entire swaths of trends/norms within certain categories, and it is also possible for those opinions to have truth and validity to them. There's no universal rule out there that suggests that there must be something great from every group of thing out there.

People act like you need to value at least SOMETHING in every category in order to be fair and unbiased, (almost as though the mere fact that the category exists means that it has an authority that you must respect and value, and that it's a given something good must have come from it) and that's just completely nonsensical to me. It's totally within the realm of possibility for all of something to be bad. Just because many people like that type of thing, doesn't mean that if you don't, your opinion is fundamentally wrong until you can find something else you think is good in the genre.

For example, saying "Well, you just don't like superhero movies." is not a reasonable response to use to invalidate "I didn't think this superhero movie was a good movie." They're all just movies. And the fact that you've thought that most of them have not been good does not invalidate the fact that you think a specific one isn't.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll start the new thread.

 

[TP]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2346021