Constructing Vancouver's Defence

[Motte and Bailey]

On the defense I'm of the opinion that losing Edler and Tanev eventually will be addition by subtraction. They aren't dynamic enough to play the kind of style I want to see which is Quinn Hughes style breakouts with 6 defenders who can actually consistently carry the puck in and out of the zone and make plays while being smart with their positioning and their sticks in the defensive zone. I also want the defense to be smart with their bodies - Chris Tanev's strategy of defending by risking his body to block shots for 25 minutes a night is not smart it's very stupid. Edler is too old and not consistent enough.

Right now we only have Quinn Hughes and Tyler Myers who are capable of playing the ideal transition defender role. Potential targets in free agency are Tyson Barrie and Alex Pietrangelo who can both play that way. Coming up the system we have Tryamkin who likes to play that way (still to be seen if he can do it in the NHL) and Jack Rathbone who looks very promising with his elite skating and offensive instincts. Juolevi and Brisebois are less certain.

LHD
Hughes
Tryamkin
Rathbone
Juolevi
Brisebois (?)

RHD
Myers
Barrie/Pietrangelo
Woo (maybe)
Rafferty (?)

Bolded are the only players who are locks to be able to play this style successfully in the NHL. There's definitely work to be done to improve that count. As a rule I believe the best path forward for building the defense is to focus on drafting and developing these defense men and then maybe taking advantage of an opportunistic free agent signing like Barrie/Pietro. If we find ourselves with extra depth in another area I'd explore a trade as an absolute last resort. It's always better to grow your own defensemen. So I would use the 2020 or 2021 pick to pick a right handed defenseman who fits the mold of a transition defender.

 

[Pip]

I swear you are like the only person here that undervalue Boeser.....
As for the D core

Resign Tanev to a short term deal, doubt he gets a raise based on his injury history and the fact that he’s very loyal to the team. Ideally you employ him as 3rd pair defence specialist.

Let Edler walk, I doubt he will be anything more than a 3rd pair D by next season, period.

You hope Raffetty can be a regular by next season and Woo/Rathbone as call up.

Trade Stecher if he gets passed by Raffetty, any positive return is fine. Ideally a draft pick.

Hope Hughes can become a bonafide top D

If you want to trade for a top 4 D, Gaudette/Dipietro/picks are your assets.

Tryamkin and Juolevi are wild cards and wishful thinking

I don’t think Gaudette/Dipietro gets you a real top 4 D and we have already given up a first rounder in the Miller deal. Boeser gets you a top 3 defensemen that’s the same age as our core. I don’t know what you can realistically do otherwise. You aren’t trading EP/Horvat and nobody but Boeser carries real value up front. Maybe Gaudette but he is still very unproven.

 

[Canucks1096]

I swear you are like the only person here that undervalue Boeser.....
As for the D core

Resign Tanev to a short term deal, doubt he gets a raise based on his injury history and the fact that he’s very loyal to the team. Ideally you employ him as 3rd pair defence specialist.

Let Edler walk, I doubt he will be anything more than a 3rd pair D by next season, period.

You hope Raffetty can be a regular by next season and Woo/Rathbone as call up.

Trade Stecher if he gets passed by Raffetty, any positive return is fine. Ideally a draft pick.

Hope Hughes can become a bonafide top D

If you want to trade for a top 4 D, Gaudette/Dipietro/picks are your assets.

Tryamkin and Juolevi are wild cards and wishful thinking

Dipietro has very little value, goal tending prospect don't have much value. Gaudette is still a bottom 6 forward that is 23 already, bottom 6 forward that are 23 don't have much value either.

 

[Canucks1096]

Canucks need to find a way to get some cap space. If a team is high on Gaudette or Virtanen and are willing to take on Eriksson contract for one of those two players. Then it is a no brainer, JB needs to make that trade.

People need to realize Gaudette and Virtanen will be never be more than third line players with the Canucks. Getting rid of a third line player will free up 6 M cap space. Can use that to improve the D.

I lived in New York, LA and Toronto. Those cities don't love their third line players like Van. I still remember back in 2003 someone posted a trade offer, Cooke Sopel for Doan. So many user didn't want to trade Cooke.

 

[VanJack]

Canucks need to find a way to get some cap space. If a team is high on Gaudette or Virtanen and are willing to take on Eriksson contract for one of those two players. Then it is a no brainer, JB needs to make that trade.

People need to realize Gaudette and Virtanen will be never be more than third line players with the Canucks. Getting rid of a third line player will free up 6 M cap space. Can use that to improve the D.

I lived in New York, LA and Toronto. Those cities don't love their third line players like Van. I still remember back in 2003 someone posted a trade offer, Cooke Sopel for Doan. So many user didn't want to trade Cooke.

Hmm...do you really trust Jimbo to trade Viranen and/or Gaudette and actually get a decent d-man back? I see that McCann, the guy he gave up for Gudbranson, scored another goal for Pittsburgh tonight.

So while it might be a 'no brainer' to free up cap space by dumping some forwards, I have zero confidence myself that Jimbo wouldn't just push the Canucks back close to cap ceiling by acquiring another disappointing rearguard and then overpaying him.

 

[Hyzer]

The only way I can see future success is if both Woo exceeds his potential draft spot in a big way and Rafferty also makes it to the NHL in a top 4 role. Even then, with that happening, we're still probably f***ed because Tanev and Edler will be old and probably can't keep up anymore.

 

[RandV]

Seems most of you are seriously underrating Woo's potential. The kid is going to be a stud, mark my words.

Top 4 of:

Tryamkin-Hughes
Woo-Barrie/UFA

No one's underestimating Woo. He's a good prospect but you have to temper expectations when projecting 19 year old CHL players into the NHL.

 

[hcg]

Canucks need to find a way to get some cap space. If a team is high on Gaudette or Virtanen and are willing to take on Eriksson contract for one of those two players. Then it is a no brainer, JB needs to make that trade.

People need to realize Gaudette and Virtanen will be never be more than third line players with the Canucks. Getting rid of a third line player will free up 6 M cap space. Can use that to improve the D.

I lived in New York, LA and Toronto. Those cities don't love their third line players like Van. I still remember back in 2003 someone posted a trade offer, Cooke Sopel for Doan. So many user didn't want to trade Cooke.

Trading cheap depth is generally not a great way to win.

 

[Canucks1096]

Trading cheap depth is generally not a great way to win.

So if you were a GM of the Canucks. Somebody calls and said give me Gaudette or Virtanen and I will take Eriksson contact off your hands.

You are going to say No?

 

[DFAC]

No way we can fit Barrie’s 8x8 contract

 

[F A N]

I lived in New York, LA and Toronto. Those cities don't love their third line players like Van. I still remember back in 2003 someone posted a trade offer, Cooke Sopel for Doan. So many user didn't want to trade Cooke.

First of all, you actually need good third line players for fans to love them. It's not uncommon for fans to like hard working bottom 6 players especially if they overperform their contracts. Of the three cities you mentioned only LA has won a Cup during that span and it featured Stoll and Clifford who seem pretty well loved.

 

[UK Canuck]

No way we can fit Barrie’s 8x8 contract

nor should we, it would be an appalling use of cap space

 

[ChilliBilly]

So if you were a GM of the Canucks. Somebody calls and said give me Gaudette or Virtanen and I will take Eriksson contact off your hands.

You are going to say No?

Gaudette sure. Virtanen no. Doesn’t matter no one is going to take a $6 million albatross off of our hands

 

[Snatcher Demko]

The Canucks absolutely need Woo and Rathbone to turn out, and hope for a pleasant surprise from Tryamkin and Rafferty.

Utunen could be a sleeper.

Otherwise it does look pretty bleak. I can see them pulling a NYI and drafting all D-men in 2020. They need that 1 all-situations guy, like a young Edler. But that is very hard to come by.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Mods, perhaps this is better under an existing thread, though I think it deserves its own discussion.

Interesting times ahead with the Vancouver defence corps. While there have been some highs this season and the team appears to have taken a step forward, we need to focus on improving for the next few years. With that in mind, I'm really interested in hearing opinions on how Benning ought to construct the D, considering salary cap implications, expansion draft, etc. Here are the players who may be in the mix for next season:

The Current Crop

Alex Edler
Chris Tanev (UFA)
Jordie Benn
Troy Stecher (RFA)
Quinn Hughes
Tyler Myers
Oscar Fantenberg (UFA)

The Utica Possibilities

Sautner
Brisebois
Rafferty
Juolevi (yeah, I know...)
Woo/Teves/Eliot/Chatfield

Outside Help

Tryamkin
Tyson Barrie
Other

Many of you know the salary cap much better than I do. As much as I love Tanev, I'm really debating how he fits going forward considering his injury history. If healthy, we may be able to actually get something good back for him at the deadline. So, based on that, and without fulling thinking out the cap, perhaps something like this:

Hughes - Tryamkin
Edler - Barrie
Benn - Myers

Extra: Rafferty/Brisebois

I expect Stecher will be moved and Erikson will either retire/move to Europe or be bought out. A big part of this plan is for Tryamkin to be able to play the Tanev role as excellent PKer and shut down defender. Curious about your thoughts.

Lol @ Tryamkin as a top pairing defenceman. IF he becomes a regular in the NHL it will be as a bottom pairing defenceman.

 

[Spur1]

So if you were a GM of the Canucks. Somebody calls and said give me Gaudette or Virtanen and I will take Eriksson contact off your hands.

You are going to say No?

In a heartbeat

 

[4Twenty]

Canucks need to find a way to get some cap space. If a team is high on Gaudette or Virtanen and are willing to take on Eriksson contract for one of those two players. Then it is a no brainer, JB needs to make that trade.

People need to realize Gaudette and Virtanen will be never be more than third line players with the Canucks. Getting rid of a third line player will free up 6 M cap space. Can use that to improve the D.

I lived in New York, LA and Toronto. Those cities don't love their third line players like Van. I still remember back in 2003 someone posted a trade offer, Cooke Sopel for Doan. So many user didn't want to trade Cooke.

While I agree with you about max upside on these two players in general, they're not going to help you dump salary. They need to find a way to get rid of Eriksson, Baertschi, and Sutter/Beagle at the least.

So if you were a GM of the Canucks. Somebody calls and said give me Gaudette or Virtanen and I will take Eriksson contact off your hands.

You are going to say No?

This just isn't realistic. It cost Toronto a 1st for 1 year of Marleau who is still actually a passable NHL player, Eriksson has this season plus two more and he's toast as NHLer.

The Canucks absolutely need Woo and Rathbone to turn out, and hope for a pleasant surprise from Tryamkin and Rafferty.

Utunen could be a sleeper.

Otherwise it does look pretty bleak. I can see them pulling a NYI and drafting all D-men in 2020. They need that 1 all-situations guy, like a young Edler. But that is very hard to come by.

Wonder what Bandwagonesque would have to say about that, he thinks using 5 top 90 draft picks over 6 drafts is enough is a disproportionate amount of dmen drafted already.

 

[4Twenty]

In a heartbeat

Why? You think those guys are good? Or is Eriksson still good in your opinion?

You wouldn't want to have flexibility to add genuine quality to the core 4, that didn't cost a 1st rounder....and no Jake stopped being worth a first the day after he was drafted.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

With the current players/prospects in the system, in 2 years our D should look like this (if everybody is slotted where they SHOULD be)
Hughes - ***
*** - Myers
*** - Stecher
Assuming Edler and Tanev leaves via UFA, their combine salary of roughly $10m to fill those 3 holes. We need a good defensive top pair guy to play with Hughes, a steady 2nd pairing LSD for Myers, and a LSD 3rd pairing guy. For $10m at least one of the top 4 newcomer has to be on an ELC. And we can't go nuts on UFA.
So in summary, we are screwed! Right now none of our D prospects are expected to be top 4 guys. I really don't know how you fix it long term unless you draft and develop them. But according to management, we are ready to compete so bye-bye draft picks!

 

[VanJack]

According to an interview with The Athletic, Canucks new player development guy Chris Higgins saying that Jack Rathbone could run a pp at the American Hockey League level right now.

Damn I'm looking forward to the day when Hughes and Rathbone anchor the Canucks pp....I know they both shoot from the left side, but I'd put 'em out there together to terrorize the guys at top of the box.

 

[F A N]

According to an interview with The Athletic, Canucks new player development guy Chris Higgins saying that Jack Rathbone could run a pp at the American Hockey League level right now.

Damn I'm looking forward to the day when Hughes and Rathbone anchor the Canucks pp....I know they both shoot from the left side, but I'd put 'em out there together to terrorize the guys at top of the box.

That's not surprising. I'm not sure about Rathbone "running the PP," but skill on the PP is one of the easiest things to transfer. Juolevi was racking up points on the PP in his rookie year.

 

[VanJack]

According to the Buffalo beat-writers, Canucks are one of the teams with scouts in the building for today's Sabres-Leafs game. And they're beating the bushes for another d-man, and Buffalo has an extra one or two.

All of which doesn't speak volumes about the confidence they have in Oscar Fantenberg. Still not sure why they dumped Biega. At least the guy could sit for a month and then give the Canucks something when he got back into the lineup. Or they could have claimed Schenn on waivers.

But the reality is the blueline is in a shambles right now, and the most sobering thing is that they don't have any injuries to report. Imagine how bad things would look if and when d-men start going down?

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

According to the Buffalo beat-writers, Canucks are one of the teams with scouts in the building for today's Sabres-Leafs game. And they're beating the bushes for another d-man, and Buffalo has an extra one or two.

All of which doesn't speak volumes about the confidence they have in Oscar Fantenberg. Still not sure why they dumped Biega. At least the guy could sit for a month and then give the Canucks something when he got back into the lineup. Or they could have claimed Schenn on waivers.

But the reality is the blueline is in a shambles right now, and the most sobering thing is that they don't have any injuries to report. Imagine how bad things would look if and when d-men start going down?

That is what irks me about the Biega trade, that they got rid of him so Fantanberg could take his place. A similarly-aged, depth defender that isn't as good as Biega. Fantanberg didn't even beat Biega out of a spot during training camp as he was concussed.

 

[mathonwy]

That is what irks me about the Biega trade, that they got rid of him so Fantanberg could take his place. A similarly-aged, depth defender that isn't as good as Biega. Fantanberg didn't even beat Biega out of a spot during training camp as he was concussed.

Jim Benning is a moron.

 

[hcg]

According to an interview with The Athletic, Canucks new player development guy Chris Higgins saying that Jack Rathbone could run a pp at the American Hockey League level right now.

Damn I'm looking forward to the day when Hughes and Rathbone anchor the Canucks pp....I know they both shoot from the left side, but I'd put 'em out there together to terrorize the guys at top of the box.

Good reason why most teams have moved away from 2 dmen on the peeper.