Constructing Vancouver's Defence

EXTRAS

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Jul 31, 2012
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No one's underestimating Woo. He's a good prospect but you have to temper expectations when projecting 19 year old CHL players into the NHL.

Yeah, putting all your eggs in one 19 year old basket is beyond risky. The best way is to be able to find one or two high probability d prospects and then go out and find a group of risky d prospects or slightly older euro guys who could potentially translate.

For example, the Oilers just went and signed Joel Persson out of Europe as a boom/bust puck moving d prospect. The Canucks should be looking at signing a player like Dronov/acquiring the rights to Wikstrand/not trading away late picks. They haven't been great at giving their development process a wide birth.
 

zcaptain

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Apr 4, 2012
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Well a couple of predictions (3 actually), first...……..

#1...….Loui Eriksson will retire this summer
#2...….Nikita Tryamkin will sign late this spring
#3...….Tanev signs an 2 year extension similar to Edler's

IMO, I think the signings on Defence were stop gaps

I think Benning is banking on the following...………..

Hughes ……………………….?????? <<<<<<<Myers (Ouch)
Juolevi/Rathbone...………Tryamkin/Tanev
Rathbone/Juolevi...……...Tanev/Tryamkin
Brisebois...…………………...Woo/Rafferty

They draft Dmen this summer
 
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zcaptain

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Just going to add......

Even though this next NHL is based on skating
The playoffs are old school, and the need to develop
large stay at home Dmen, is still a demand.....
Our prospect Dmen are small....
Having a couple of large Dmen prospects
wouldn't be a bad idea
 
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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Just going to add......

Even though this next NHL is based on skating
The playoffs are old school, and the need to develop
large stay at home Dmen, is still a demand.....
Our prospect Dmen are small....
Having a couple of large Dmen prospects
wouldn't be a bad idea

I think you need some size on the backend. Nothing wrong with Dmen with size. The issue is whether they can skate, defend, and transition the puck. I think we need to develop more NHL calibre Dmen period.
 

Intangibos

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Apr 5, 2010
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When I was younger, at Kensington Square there used to be a Domo gas station. One day it closed for renovations. For years it sat closed, eventually even a sign went up that said "reopening soon", but it never happened and eventually disappeared.

This is how I feel about the ongoing "construction" of our defence. It's just going to "continue" with nothing to show for it. We can sign someone but we'll probably overpay or still be crippled with existing bad contracts like what Myers is looking to be. We can trade for someone but we'll probably overpay like we did for Gudbranson and actually get worse.

I used to like projecting what a future team "could" look like but as those projections get more and more pessimistic this is just sad. 6 years ago it would be unfathomable to suggest we would be talking about how we'll replace Edler and Tanev.
 

hcg

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Oct 12, 2018
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The only way I can see future success is if both Woo exceeds his potential draft spot in a big way and Rafferty also makes it to the NHL in a top 4 role. Even then, with that happening, we're still probably ****ed because Tanev and Edler will be old and probably can't keep up anymore.
Exceeds?

he was a second round pick. Competent teams regularly draft NHLers with second round picks.
 

Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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Exceeds?

he was a second round pick. Competent teams regularly draft NHLers with second round picks.

Only about 30% of second round picks make it to the nhl ( min 200 games ) yes that will be exceeding expectations
 

CpatainCanuck

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Sep 18, 2008
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To have a contending D-core in a couple of years the Canucks need Tryamkin to come in and be solid. They also need one of their prospects like Woo/Rafferty to exceed expectations and develop into a solid top-4 defenceman.
 
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VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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In 2020 Benning and company will be heading into their seventh draft. If you're an optimist and you see the Canucks as a playoff team, then they don't have a first rounder. But if they're a lottery team again, by all estimations they pick a forward, because that's really all that are rated in the top-10.

I suppose there's a chance they take a d-man later in the draft, but that pick would be at least two or three years away from the NHL, and that's being charitable. So over the course of those seven drafts, the Canucks will have probably picked between 45-49 players, allowing for some of the picks they traded away, and few more they've acquired.

And so far, over six drafts of seven rounds, the only d-men they're picked who is a legitimate NHL player is Hughes. How is that even possible? I thought Benning had a reputation as something of a 'amateur scouting guru'?

As this rate, Tanev and Edler are going to have to play until they're 40.
 
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F A N

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I used to like projecting what a future team "could" look like but as those projections get more and more pessimistic this is just sad. 6 years ago it would be unfathomable to suggest we would be talking about how we'll replace Edler and Tanev.

You can't be serious. 6 years ago, who were you projecting to be part of the Canucks defence in the future? Surely you were expecting Tanev to still be here. Who else were you projecting to be there? Jordan Subban? Corrado? Peter Andersson? Probably not Ben Hutton?
 

Intangibos

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You can't be serious. 6 years ago, who were you projecting to be part of the Canucks defence in the future? Surely you were expecting Tanev to still be here. Who else were you projecting to be there? Jordan Subban? Corrado? Peter Andersson? Probably not Ben Hutton?

I wasn't expect a team with allegedly empty cupboards to have our existing players be seemingly irreplaceable for over half of a decade despite repeated attempts to acquire defencemen.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Alex Edler was drafted in third round of the 2004 draft....because as a story goes, Gradin went off into the wilds of Northern Sweden and found him playing the equivalent of beer league hockey. And Tanev was signed as a UFA out of Rochester Polytechnic, because Dave Gagner remembered him from his minor hockey days in Greater TO, and realized that this pint-sized kid' had grown quite a bit'.

You'd think in the next decade the Canucks would get some dumb luck again and find a diamond in rough who blossomed into a legitimate top-four d-man. But it's like "Waiting for Godot".
 
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F A N

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I wasn't expect a team with allegedly empty cupboards to have our existing players be seemingly irreplaceable for over half of a decade despite repeated attempts to acquire defencemen.

Perhaps you should evaluate your own expectations? Tanev is 29 years old today. 6 years ago, I would have expected Tanev to still be an effective Dman 6 years later. I have no idea why you would expect him to be "replaced." Edler hasn't been replaced, but I have no problems with Hughes taking over the 1st pairing Dman role as soon as the end of this year really.

I swear some posters here are underrating Edler and Tanev. In the past, when a team drafts a bluechip D prospect we talk about that Dman providing 10-15 year of service.
 

zcaptain

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Apr 4, 2012
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To have a contending D-core in a couple of years the Canucks need Tryamkin to come in and be solid. They also need one of their prospects like Woo/Rafferty to exceed expectations and develop into a solid top-4 defenceman.

I agree with your list

and expand it...……..

Hughes...……….Tryamkin
Juolevi...………..Woo
Rathbone...…….Rafferty
Brisebois

To me that is our Dman prospect list at this time...………..(the ones that have a chance)

Obviously Hughes is a number 1, but after that, it is a toss up

Personally, I would like to see Benning go after a couple more RHD this year, but even saying that, there is no absolute that Tryamkin or Rathbone will sign at this very moment. Or that Juolevi will
stay healthy enough to fully develop.

Also would not mind him going after a NCAA RFA this summer.

The defense is still a work in progress, IMO
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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I agree with your list

and expand it...……..

Hughes...……….Tryamkin
Juolevi...………..Woo
Rathbone...…….Rafferty
Brisebois

To me that is our Dman prospect list at this time...………..(the ones that have a chance)

Obviously Hughes is a number 1, but after that, it is a toss up

Personally, I would like to see Benning go after a couple more RHD this year, but even saying that, there is no absolute that Tryamkin or Rathbone will sign at this very moment. Or that Juolevi will
stay healthy enough to fully develop.

Also would not mind him going after a NCAA RFA this summer.

The defense is still a work in progress, IMO


Look around the league at the teams with successful bluelines. You can rarely trade for top-four d-men because everybody is in the market for them and it's going to cost you prime picks/prospects. You can hope to sign one as a UFA, but chances are they're just at the start of their career decline, and you're going to dramatically overpay.

So basically you have to draft and develop them. And other than Hughes, Benning hasn't drafted or developed a single one. And until he does, having talents like Petterson, Horvat or Boeser up-front, isn't going to make a world of difference when it comes to making the playoffs, or doing anything once you get there.
 

Motte and Bailey

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Jun 21, 2017
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Benning already did the hardest part of building a winning defense by far.. drafting a 20 year old franchise defender.. to believe he can’t do the easier parts aka draft #2-7 defensemen is illogical. Of course he can and he will.

Rathbone looks like a stud top 4 guy, Tryamkin a top 4 guy very much in the mold of a Tyler Myers type player. Then we have Brisebois who looks like he will be a solid bottom pairing NHLer. Of course Hughes, Tanev, Myers will be the others.

Hughes- Myers
Tryamkin-Tanev
Rathbone-Woo
Juolevi
Brisebois

Tough to play against and loaded with more than the requisite speed, skill, size, grit, battle, and character to win with.
 

CpatainCanuck

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Sep 18, 2008
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Ideally I think that the Canucks trade Tanev for futures at the deadline this year. With his injury history I just don't think he will be a top player anymore when the canucks are actually competing for the cup. He should be able to bring back a significant pick and/or prospect. And if the Canucks and Tanev really want to be back together he can resign in the offseason.
 

Intangibos

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Perhaps you should evaluate your own expectations? Tanev is 29 years old today. 6 years ago, I would have expected Tanev to still be an effective Dman 6 years later. I have no idea why you would expect him to be "replaced." Edler hasn't been replaced, but I have no problems with Hughes taking over the 1st pairing Dman role as soon as the end of this year really.

I swear some posters here are underrating Edler and Tanev. In the past, when a team drafts a bluechip D prospect we talk about that Dman providing 10-15 year of service.

Perhaps you misunderstand. It's not that I underrate these players. It's that a team that has been at the bottom of the league for 5 years should be looking to trade these players for picks and let other players step up. The issue is we haven't had anyone capable of stepping up in any way so every time anyone suggests using them as trade assets we have to ask "and who will replace them"?
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Perhaps you misunderstand. It's not that I underrate these players. It's that a team that has been at the bottom of the league for 5 years should be looking to trade these players for picks and let other players step up. The issue is we haven't had anyone capable of stepping up in any way so every time anyone suggests using them as trade assets we have to ask "and who will replace them"?

Ya I really am not getting what you're trying to say. Your vantage point was 6 years ago. That's what you said. So Tanev was a 23-24 year old who most of us wanted locked up long term. Edler also had a full NTC on his contract and was 28 years old. There were certainly points where many of us would have liked to see a Tanev trade, but to think of trading Tanev 6 years ago? Heck the proposed Tanev for Liljegren deal would look pretty bad right now.
 

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