Congrats/thank you to Sens' GM

[John Holmes*]

Glass was great in Junior and did win gold at the wjc's.

These things happen.

 

[senatorsburly]

So was fluery

 

[BonkTastic]

Hey guys, this is not the place to discuss Ray Emery's "alleged extra-curricular activity".

 

[senatorsburly]

sorry Bonk had a feeling a Mod would say something soon.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Not sure if he has any interest in being a GM, might want to coach first, but I'd ask Luke to do it over T. Murray. Richardson just has an aura of an executive and a future star GM - he'd be my choice.

Holy crap.

Serious?

Two things...I don't know when the last time Tim Murray coached was, but it's probably atleast 15 years ago, and Junior B at the highest level. But on the other hand, he's created a great track record as a scout, head scout, and also won a championship as Binghamton's GM.

Luke Richardsson, at the moment, has very little interest in the NHL.

 

[BonkTastic]

sorry Bonk had a feeling a Mod would say something soon.

No worries, we just need to watch out for libelous statements, that's all.

 

[Xspyrit]

Now that's just rude.....

Just stating facts, if you don't know it's true, then you maybe don't want recognize that human being behaviour. People always whine about things they don't understand, because reality is much more complicated and nuanced than what they understand about the situation (can be applied in probably any sphere of life)

I'm not being rude, reality is.

Eaves was i decent NHLer but i agree injuries have hampered his career. I would have kept him over stillman though because stillman was imo not great and left as a UFA. Corvo was massively better then Commodore and filled a need we needed to address as a PMD.

Lehner could have easily been drafted by another team leaving us with no goalie prospect.

Meszaroes was a high quality RFA and imo hes better then kuba. If the Tampa wanted him that bad they should have offersheeted him. Kuba was a product of karlsson, picard was a bust.

I would have sent Butler to the AHL and kept Emery. He's clearly overcome his problems and outside one bad season he's proven to be a competent NHL goalie. He would have been much better then Gerber(not an NHLer), Auld(not an NHLer) Glass(not an NHLer), Leclaire(not an NHLer) and Brodeur(not an NHLer).

I would have traded Volchenkov instead of letting him go. There was plenty of interest in him as an RFA although i agree he was not going to be part of the rebuild at 4.5mil

I know these are unpopular opinions related to murray's reign but for the longest time our breakouts and goaltending were enough to make someone physically sick.

Why do you repeat the same things? Don't you take other people's posts in consideration?

- Corvo wanted out so it means he couldn't be kept... When you have no quality prospect pool, you can't really replace a player just like that.

- That Lehner could have been drafted by another team is irrelevant (no idea what's the point?)

- Only time Meszaros was better was his rookie season and 2010-11 on an Elite Flyers team. Do you understand that Meszaros wanted 4.0 per as a RFA when the salary cap was a lot less than today? Do you understand it's close to what STARS RFAs were getting (Kessel, Heatley, Spezza, Getzlaf, Perry...)?

- Butler was on a 1-way, Melnyk probably wasn't a fan of sending Butler in the AHL to earn 1.05 per. It's just a financial decision, doesn't really concern fans that much, they do what's best for their pockets

- As others said, Emery's issues off the ice plus the on-ice suckage forced us to buy him out. Of course, no other NHL team wanted him at that time and something needed to be done, he was a big distraction.

- What's the relevance about interest in Volchenkov when he was RFA? That's WHEN we really wanted him cause his salary was adequate... We let him go after 2009-10 as he was becoming UFA and looking for a big paycheck. He deserved it and we should be very happy that the Sens weren't the ones to pay that bill. We were not going to trade him in 2009-10 as we MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

As you say "unpopular opinions", the key word here is "opinion". This is only your opinion, but it would have more value if you could base it on facts and context.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Just stating facts, if you don't know it's true, then you maybe don't want recognize that human being behaviour. People always whine about things they don't understand, because reality is much more complicated and nuanced than what they understand about the situation (can be applied in probably any sphere of life)

I'm not being rude, reality is.



Why do you repeat the same things? Don't you take other people's posts in consideration?

- Corvo wanted out so it means he couldn't be kept... When you have no quality prospect pool, you can't really replace a player just like that.

- That Lehner could have been drafted by another team is irrelevant (no idea what's the point?)

- Only time Meszaros was better was his rookie season and 2010-11 on an Elite Flyers team. Do you understand that Meszaros wanted 4.0 per as a RFA when the salary cap was a lot less than today? Do you understand it's close to what STARS RFAs were getting (Kessel, Heatley, Spezza, Getzlaf, Perry...)?

- Butler was on a 1-way, Melnyk probably wasn't a fan of sending Butler in the AHL to earn 1.05 per. It's just a financial decision, doesn't really concern fans that much, they do what's best for their pockets

- As others said, Emery's issues off the ice plus the on-ice suckage forced us to buy him out. Of course, no other NHL team wanted him at that time and something needed to be done, he was a big distraction.

- What's the relevance about interest in Volchenkov when he was RFA? That's WHEN we really wanted him cause his salary was adequate... We let him go after 2009-10 as he was becoming UFA and looking for a big paycheck. He deserved it and we should be very happy that the Sens weren't the ones to pay that bill. We were not going to trade him in 2009-10 as we MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

As you say "unpopular opinions", the key word here is "opinion". This is only your opinion, but it would have more value if you could base it on facts and context.

Corvo wanted out so we couldnt keep him? So if someone is having the best seasons of their career but they want a trade we automatically trade them for scrap? Very bad business that weakened then team.

I dont understand your point. If another team drafted lehner that would have been a terrible trade. It was a very risky deal and we fell into getting a great goalie.

Flip Kuba has basically been a minus player every year of his career. He had two good season's one of which he was paired with karlsson. Meszaros was better in Ottawa and has been better outside of Ottawa on terrible teams then Kuba was. As an RFA we dont have to pay meszaros anything we didnt feel comfortable with. Tampa initially from what i've heard was going to offersheet him but didnt have their second round pick. After trading Corvo and Meszaros we spent years looking for a capable PMD.

I can understand buying out Butler but i think it was unnecessary. Guy was a good AHL player. How much money did we save on him?

If we had no intention of resigning Volchenkov we should have traded him. We blew up the team next year. It would have been nice to get some assets for him before he hit UFA.

Emery had off ice issues i agree but he was also better then any other goalie we had or got up until anderson. Giving up on him after one season was not the right move and it was an over reaction.

This is about WINNING. Corvo would have helped us win games, Meszaros imo would have helped us better then Kuba plus imo his return was weak for what he was at the time, Butler would have helped our AHL team win games, Emery would have helped the team win games, Vermette would have helped us win more games then Leclaire and it would have been nice to get some sort of return for Volchenkov considering we went full rebuild the next season.

I'm aware of the context of each situation. I just dont think they all warranted downgrading our team. We moved out capable players and made our team worse at the time for their return. Corvo wanted a trade idc youre better then any other offer we have for you so youre staying. Emery acting up? Looks like we should address our problem with our only hope of a goalie rather then buy him out. Meszaros wants 4mil plus? too bad hes an RFA, someone better offersheet him or he siting until he signs a bridge contract.

Like i said these are unpopular but it's not like im arbitrarily picking out these deal. I have my reasons why i dont like them.

 

[bert]

Corvo wanted out so we couldnt keep him? So if someone is having the best seasons of their career but they want a trade we automatically trade them for scrap? Very bad business that weakened then team.

I dont understand your point. If another team drafted lehner that would have been a terrible trade. It was a very risky deal and we fell into getting a great goalie.

Flip Kuba has basically been a minus player every year of his career. He had two good season's one of which he was paired with karlsson. Meszaros was better in Ottawa and has been better outside of Ottawa on terrible teams then Kuba was. As an RFA we dont have to pay meszaros anything we didnt feel comfortable with. Tampa initially from what i've heard was going to offersheet him but didnt have their second round pick. After trading Corvo and Meszaros we spent years looking for a capable PMD.

I can understand buying out Butler but i think it was unnecessary. Guy was a good AHL player. How much money did we save on him?

If we had no intention of resigning Volchenkov we should have traded him. We blew up the team next year. It would have been nice to get some assets for him before he hit UFA.

Emery had off ice issues i agree but he was also better then any other goalie we had or got up until anderson. Giving up on him after one season was not the right move and it was an over reaction.

This is about WINNING. Corvo would have helped us win games, Meszaros imo would have helped us better then Kuba plus imo his return was weak for what he was at the time, Butler would have helped our AHL team win games, Emery would have helped the team win games, Vermette would have helped us win more games then Leclaire and it would have been nice to get some sort of return for Volchenkov considering we went full rebuild the next season.

I'm aware of the context of each situation. I just dont think they all warranted downgrading our team. We moved out capable players and made our team worse at the time for their return. Corvo wanted a trade idc youre better then any other offer we have for you so youre staying. Emery acting up? Looks like we should address our problem with our only hope of a goalie rather then buy him out. Meszaros wants 4mil plus? too bad hes an RFA, someone better offersheet him or he siting until he signs a bridge contract.

Like i said these are unpopular but it's not like im arbitrarily picking out these deal. I have my reasons why i dont like them.

It maybe your opinion that Mesz was better but he couldn't handle top 3 minutes at all. Kuba is and was a much better player than Meszaros, handles the minutes much better, he is a way better skater and more consistent player.

Emery was an absolute mess, and he isn't very good anyways so who cares.

Stillman came in and played very well here, he was one of the best forwards. Commodore was aweful but Eaves was a non factore 4th liner in and out of the lineup. Stillman for Corvo essentially so it wasn't bad at all.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

It maybe your opinion that Mesz was better but he couldn't handle top 3 minutes at all. Kuba is and was a much better player than Meszaros, handles the minutes much better, he is a way better skater and more consistent player.

Emery was an absolute mess, and he isn't very good anyways so who cares.

Emery NHL, Auld non nhler, Leclaire non nhler, Glass non NHLer, Brodeur non NHLer, Gerber non NHLer ect. Not saying he was the answer to our prayers like Anderson was but he certainly was more capable then anyone else. Theres a reason hes still playing and these guys arent. We invested too much time and didnt have any foreseeable answer to our goalie situation outside Emery. I admit he had a bad season both on and off the ice when be bought him out but outside that one year hes proven to be a capable goalie and better then and other guy we through in the crease.

Corvo for Stillman didnt address a need though. We took away a capable defensemen and added a good forward to an already stacked top six. I also thought stillman under preformed. 3 goals in 24 games at minus 8

 

[guyzeur]

Emery NHL, Auld non nhler, Leclaire non nhler, Glass non NHLer, Brodeur non NHLer, Gerber non NHLer ect. Not saying he was the answer to our prayers like Anderson was but he certainly was more capable then anyone else. Theres a reason hes still playing and these guys arent. We invested too much time and didnt have any foreseeable answer to our goalie situation outside Emery. I admit he had a bad season both on and off the ice when be bought him out but outside that one year hes proven to be a capable goalie and better then and other guy we through in the crease.

Corvo for Stillman didnt address a need though. We took away a capable defensemen and added a good forward to an already stacked top six. I also thought stillman under preformed. 3 goals in 24 games at minus 8

Do you know what this line mean?

2008-09 Mytishchi Atlant KHL

Let me explain it for you. Emery was so bad that he had to go play in the KHL, no team in the NHL wanted him.

How long does it take for a goalie to come in the NHL after he's drafted, I would say the average is 6-7 years.

The prospect pool was empty, but go ahead and blame Murray for that.

 

[guyzeur]

Muckler drafted the following goalies while he was the Ottawa GM (2002-07):

2006 Entry, 151, Ryan Daniels
2004 Entry, 89, Jeff Glass
2003 Entry, 291, Brian Elliott

That's not very good

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I fail to see your reasoning. So what if Emery played a year in the KHL? He was till better then our other goalies. I agree the senators organization had terrible goalie depth. We shouldnt have gotten rid of our best goalie at the time in Emery with no foreseeable better option. I also find it funny that he put a respectable 920 save percentage in the KHL and that the only time he put up bad numbers where in the season where we bought him out and since then has shown to be decent.

 

[saskriders]

Emery was a train wreck, they had no choice but to get rid of him

 

[guyzeur]

I fail to see your reasoning. So what if Emery played a year in the KHL? He was till better then our other goalies. I agree the senators organization had terrible goalie depth. We shouldnt have gotten rid of our best goalie at the time in Emery with no foreseeable better option.

I'm sure Murray tried to trade him for a bag of puck but could not find any takers, I wonder why....

''By the pre-season of the 2007–08 campaign, Emery was injured for a lengthy time, due to a wrist injury which limited him to only 40 minutes of the pre-season and to miss several games early in the Senators' season.[34] Unspectacular performances by Emery, combined with improved play by Martin Gerber during the first two months of the season, reduced Emery's playing time once he returned. As a result, Gerber was designated as the starting goaltender for the team. In December, Emery was involved in more controversy, as he was sent home by head coach John Paddock from a practice after claiming that he was feeling ill. It occurred one day after he slammed a stick at another practice expressing his frustration stemming for his reduced playing time this season. Emery later explained that he woke up late and missed the start of that practice. The issue briefly fueled trade rumors.

On January 28, 2008, Emery showed up late to another practice in Long Island, New York. Emery said that he mistakenly thought that the session was held at the New York Islanders arena, the Nassau Coliseum, but it was instead held at the Farmingdale Iceworks. There were also reports that Emery had spent the All-Star Weekend in Las Vegas but Paddock simply stated that he arrived in New York from the west.[35][36] General manager Brian Murray admitted that he had tried to trade Emery, but there were no takers. Due to his recent tardiness, Emery was fined 1/187 of his salary per this year, which was $14,705.88, which was turned into a donation to CHEO. In addition, Emery was also involved in separate altercations with Brian McGrattan and Chris Neil during practice sessions.[37] On April 18, 2008 Murray announced to the media in an end-of-season press conference that Emery would not return to the Senators for the 2008–09 season.[38] On June 20, 2008, Emery was waived by the Ottawa Senators, and cleared them three days later; as a result, he became a free agent.[4]''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Emery

All this under the same season. Keep being stubborn and blind to the facts.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I still fail to see your point i know about all this stuff. I wouldnt have traded him unless there was a goalie coming back in return. I want the best players i have available to me playing and Emery was better then anyone else we had. He had one bad year career wise and life wise and since then has gotten back on track. We gave up on him when imo we shouldnt have and i have the facts that hes playing in the NHL atm well all our other goalie are not.

 

[guyzeur]

I still fail to see your point i know about all this stuff. I wouldnt have traded him unless there was a goalie coming back in return. I want the best players i have available to me playing and Emery was better then anyone else we had. He had one bad year career wise and life wise and since then has gotten back on track. We gave up on him when imo we shouldnt have and i have the facts that hes playing in the NHL atm well all our other goalie are not.

You want the best goalie at the expense of the whole team? He was ruining the room, he was a distraction to the team. He was a wreck for more than year 07/08.

What Murray did was the best thing that happen to Emery. He saw that he was throwing his hockey life away.

Are you just trying to find arguments to make your point that Murray did a bad move by letting him go?


The NHL didn't want him anymore, not just Murray. Why can't you understand that?

''I wouldnt have traded him unless there was a goalie coming back in return''

They you would complain that Murray is a bad GM because he got a poor return.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

You want the best goalie at the expense of the whole team? He was ruining the room, he was a distraction to the team. He was a wreck for more than year 07/08.

What Murray did was the best thing that happen to Emery. He saw that he was throwing his hockey life away.

Are you just trying to find arguments to make your point that Murray did a bad move by letting him go?


The NHL didn't want him anymore, not just Murray. Why can't you understand that?

Guy turned his life around but suggesting if was cause he was bought out is wishful thinking. You dont know that. You only know he turned it around. I think you're over estimating his influence on 20 other people. Just because you work with someone you dont like or play on a team with someone you dont like doesnt give you the excuse to be terrible. I've only made one argument and that was that Emery has proven to be better then all are other goalies which is a FACT.

I'm done with this discussion. It's detracting from a thread about Bryan Murray and to be quite frank it seems like you're taking this argument personally.

 

[senatorsburly]

I still fail to see your point i know about all this stuff. I wouldnt have traded him unless there was a goalie coming back in return. I want the best players i have available to me playing and Emery was better then anyone else we had. He had one bad year career wise and life wise and since then has gotten back on track. We gave up on him when imo we shouldnt have and i have the facts that hes playing in the NHL atm well all our other goalie are not.

Emery was given a big raise by management after he led us to the cup and he didnt live up to it plain in simple with his on and off ice shananagins. He didnt want to buy him out heres a quote from CBC ;Murray would prefer not to have to buy out Emery."I told him yesterday, the plan right now would be to investigate possible options for him," said Murray. "I hope there's a team out there that will give him a look and talk to us about him."

He tried to trade him and absoloutley no one wanted him ( so why should we), yes i understand he changed his act around but at the time murray had to do what was best for our team, have you not heard " one bad apple spoils the bunch". Emery was a cancer and needed to be removed.

 

[guyzeur]

Guy turned his life around but suggesting if was cause he was bought out is wishful thinking. You dont know that. You only know he turned it around. I think you're over estimating his influence on 20 other people. Just because you work with someone you dont like or play on a team with someone you dont like doesnt give you the excuse to be terrible. I've only made one argument and that was that Emery has proven to be better then all are other goalies which is a FACT.

At the time, he lost his job to freaking Gerber. He wasn't better than the other goalie. And because you have 20/20 hindsight you can't use this argument.

In theory no one should be affected by someone else behavior. But because they were, Emery had to go.

No I don't know that was the reason he turned his game around. Maybe that was his AVN and his time away from the rink. He had to hit the bottom of the barrel to change his life.

Since I also have 20/20 hindsight, Emery would not even be dressing for the Sens now. So Murray did another great move by getting rid of Emery.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Muckler drafted the following goalies while he was the Ottawa GM (2002-07):

2006 Entry, 151, Ryan Daniels
2004 Entry, 89, Jeff Glass
2003 Entry, 291, Brian Elliott

That's not very good

I think drafting goalies is a bit of a crapshoot anyway. They tend to take longer to develop and it's hard to get a good picture of a guy when he's 17 or 18. Look at all the goalies who played exceptionally well in the world juniors but fizzled out before their NHL career began.

Unless you're super high on a guy its usually better to wait for the later rounds and draft one or two a yearm hoping that one of them eventually pays off.

 

[guyzeur]

I think drafting goalies is a bit of a crapshoot anyway. They tend to take longer to develop and it's hard to get a good picture of a guy when he's 17 or 18. Look at all the goalies who played exceptionally well in the world juniors but fizzled out before their NHL career began.

Unless you're super high on a guy its usually better to wait for the later rounds and draft one or two a year hoping that one of them eventually pays off.

1 or 2 per year, late in the draft - I'm ok with that, Muckler drafted only 3 in six years. While he had none really as prospects.

 

[malcolmedge]

Emery changed because he got shunned by the NHL. He realized he had to clean up his act. He wasn't wanted. Simple fact.

Look at Grabner. He said when he got traded to the Panthers, he went to camp expecting to make the team and didn't really try. When they waived him it was a wake up call. He got a chance on the Island and picked his game up. He knew that the Islanders were it for him. Same thing for Emery. I also suspect Silvferberg felt that way too.