Congrats/thank you to Sens' GM

[One M0RE YEAR]

volchenkov at 4m per is a disaster...

 

[BonkTastic]

volchenkov at 4m per is a disaster...

Heck yes. At that price, every Devils fan, almost to a man, wants him gone.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

This is an pretty superficial way of looking at the situation.


If someone smokes for 40 years and quits at the age of 60 to replace the habit with Nicorette and then is diagnosed with lung cancer, what should the doctors conclude?

"Huh, the cancer must be from the nicorette. Doing something unhealthy for years and then quitting won't have any lasting consequence."

I prefer to think of it as a captain taking over a ship and under his watch it sinks. Or a security guard replacing someones shift and under his watch a breakin occurs. As the GM its his job to make the moves to make this team as good as it can be and imo he made some choices that set us back before finally going with the rebuild.

 

[Tuna99]

Have to think Tim Murray is going to be pulling the strings fairly soon.

Not sure if he has any interest in being a GM, might want to coach first, but I'd ask Luke to do it over T. Murray. Richardson just has an aura of an executive and a future star GM - he'd be my choice.

 

[John Holmes*]

He literally contributed NOTHING to the Sens though, he rode the coattails of a team built nearly entirely by Marhsall Johnston/ Pierre Gauthier.

He took a team with Championship potential, and added almost literally nothing to it over his entire 6-year tenure. He had a deplorable draft record, his trades were almost all flops, he screwed Hossa - which in turn gave Ottawa a horrible rep around the league for years...

Dude. When the only good thing about a GM was that they guys who were there before he got there, who were brought in by his predecessors, played up to expectations... I dunno man. That's pretty bad. That's almost "ALL bad".

In fairness to Mucks (who I can't stand as a GM) he was brought in to win now. His deadline deals were all about sacrificing the future for the present.

His abysmal pre-Ottawa draft record notwithstanding, he actually didn't do too badly considering where we finished in the standings. Of course the colossul blunder of picking Brian Lee with our gift of a 9th pick will forever overshadow the Nick Foligno's and other players that at least became NHL players, though unspectacular ones. Meszaros, Greening, Condra, Gryba, Daugavins, Eaves, Elliott etc...

Maybe the best move Murray ever made was hamstringing Muckler. God knows how bad things could have gotten had he not done so.

So yeah Murray inherited a mess, added to it in my opinion, but has done a good job with the rebuild, and most of the trades he's made in recent years.

 

[senatorsburly]

I prefer to think of it as a captain taking over a ship and under his watch it sinks. Or a security guard replacing someones shift and under his watch a breakin occurs. As the GM its his job to make the moves to make this team as good as it can be and imo he made some choices that set us back before finally going with the rebuild.

I think the only thing you can really nail on him was the poor hiring of coaches, besides that imo he did everything he could to get the senators back on the map, in the 2007-2008 season we still had 17 players from our cup run roster, same top line, same goaltender but things weren't the same, can you blame him on how the players were playing? We missed the playoffs like 2 years under him big whoop could be way worse. A Rebuild now a days takes what 3- 4 years? didnt we make the playoffs in year 2? Cant be that bad...

 

[guyzeur]

In fairness to Mucks (who I can't stand as a GM) he was brought in to win now. His deadline deals were all about sacrificing the future for the present.

His abysmal pre-Ottawa draft record notwithstanding, he actually didn't do too badly considering where we finished in the standings. Of course the colossul blunder of picking Brian Lee with our gift of a 9th pick will forever overshadow the Nick Foligno's and other players that at least became NHL players, though unspectacular ones. Meszaros, Greening, Condra, Gryba, Daugavins, Eaves, Elliott etc...

Maybe the best move Murray ever made was hamstringing Muckler. God knows how bad things could have gotten had he not done so.

So yeah Murray inherited a mess, added to it in my opinion, but has done a good job with the rebuild, and most of the trades he's made in recent years.

I don't like Muckler either but when you look at what was available to draft at 22-29 under his tenure, it wasn't great at all.

 

[John Holmes*]

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[CanadianHockey]

A little defensive dont you think? I'm not giving him a ten. I never said anything about you. Guy made what i perceive as some moves that set the organization back, particularly at the back end. Made me sick that we had to hear about how we lacked a PMD and seeing how we were hemmed in our own end after moving mezaroes and Corvo. Then panicking and trading for campoli. Despite what people say imo LeClaire was never good. If we had no intention of resigning volchenkov we should have traded him off the sinking ship that was our team at the time. Helping Emery with his problems would have been the right thing to do rather then giving up on him after 6 years in the organization.

Do you think the team would have been better had we kept mezaroes and corvo over campoli or had we kept emery over leclaire. IMO we would have.

Murray's mistakes led to us missing the playoffs for the first time in 11 years imo. I give Murray tons of credit for successfully rebuilding the team but i also am not happy with some of the moves related to why we had to rebuild the team.

Meszaros was king of pucks bouncing off him into our net his last year here. We replaced him with a good PMD in Kuba.

Letting go of Corvo... meh.

I agree about Leclaire. He had one okay (not even great) season that got overrated because of his shutout total and the fact that he played for Columbus. Every other year he was mediocre and injured.

 

[Back in Black]

In fairness to Mucks (who I can't stand as a GM) he was brought in to win now. His deadline deals were all about sacrificing the future for the present.

True Dat!

I prefer to think of it as a captain taking over a ship and under his watch it sinks. Or a security guard replacing someones shift and under his watch a breakin occurs. As the GM its his job to make the moves to make this team as good as it can be and imo he made some choices that set us back before finally going with the rebuild.

True Dat!

We went from Stanley Cup contenders to a first round Playoff Team under Murray!

But now knowing that Melnyk put a clamp on the salary Cap, I can't blame Murray!

I guess people are just happy being short sighted, it must be a lot less complicated.

Now that's just rude.....

 

[bert]

Stillman, Commondore for Corvo and Eaves .

meh lost it but Eaves is a fringe NHLer and so is Corvo

Whatever we traded for filatov .

- 3rd rounder only flat out loss in my opinion

Leclaire and dont give me that bs that we knew wed get lehner.

They drafted him......

/Mezaroes trade was terrible considering he was a top ranked RFA at the time

They couldn't afford him, Kuba had two really really good seasons here better then any Meszaros had after they traded him.

imo buying out Emery and butler was also unnecessary

what would you have done? Do you not think they tried to trade them?

Losing volchenkov was kinda bad too

yeah you want him at 4.5 million good call.... See how they feel about your 6th D at that price tag injersey.

He's made some mistakes but in the end he's turned most of them into positives.

I agree with this, but they haven't made many mistakes. I think money has come into play and hand cuffed them a few times like this summer. This team with Gonchar and Alfie over Corvo and Mac would be downright scary.

 

[Officer Fred]

As poorly as Muckler did with drafting his tenure coincided with our best years as a franchise in terms of results: I don't think we missed the playoffs while he was the GM

He gets too much hate; he wasn't ALL bad

He rode coat tails like Gillis has done.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

meh lost it but Eaves is a fringe NHLer and so is Corvo

- 3rd rounder only flat out loss in my opinion

They drafted him......



They couldn't afford him, Kuba had two really really good seasons here better then any Meszaros had after they traded him.

what would you have done? Do you not think they tried to trade them?

yeah you want him at 4.5 million good call.... See how they feel about your 6th D at that price tag injersey.



I agree with this, but they haven't made many mistakes. I think money has come into play and hand cuffed them a few times like this summer. This team with Gonchar and Alfie over Corvo and Mac would be downright scary.

Eaves was i decent NHLer but i agree injuries have hampered his career. I would have kept him over stillman though because stillman was imo not great and left as a UFA. Corvo was massively better then Commodore and filled a need we needed to address as a PMD.

Lehner could have easily been drafted by another team leaving us with no goalie prospect.

Meszaroes was a high quality RFA and imo hes better then kuba. If the Tampa wanted him that bad they should have offersheeted him. Kuba was a product of karlsson, picard was a bust.

I would have sent Butler to the AHL and kept Emery. He's clearly overcome his problems and outside one bad season he's proven to be a competent NHL goalie. He would have been much better then Gerber(not an NHLer), Auld(not an NHLer) Glass(not an NHLer), Leclaire(not an NHLer) and Brodeur(not an NHLer).

I would have traded Volchenkov instead of letting him go. There was plenty of interest in him as an RFA although i agree he was not going to be part of the rebuild at 4.5mil

I know these are unpopular opinions related to murray's reign but for the longest time our breakouts and goaltending were enough to make someone physically sick.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Meszaros was king of pucks bouncing off him into our net his last year here. We replaced him with a good PMD in Kuba.

Letting go of Corvo... meh.

I agree about Leclaire. He had one okay (not even great) season that got overrated because of his shutout total and the fact that he played for Columbus. Every other year he was mediocre and injured.

Meszaros also had this incredible ability to miss the net everytime he shot. I remember screaming at him from my couch multiple times a game

 

[Officer Fred]

By far he's not the worst gm but we did miss the playoffs under his watch for the first time in like 10 years or something. My major issues were with the moves that went on with our back end. I was not happy with the departures of corvo and mezaroes. Imo it made us alot weaker. Volchenkov was a good player in ottawa which is the reason why he got such a good contract from the devils. As a rebuilding team i'm sure we could have at least gotten some sort of return. Leclaire's numbers were weak in columbus and he wasnt known for is health, we knew what we were getting into.

Emery had his issues but he only had one bad season before being bought and imo he was better then gerber, elliott and leclaire. Career wise Emery's numbers have been consistently ok outside that one year.

You can possibly question his decision in hiring paddock, Hartsburgh and clouston too.

By no means am i calling him a bad gm but i'm certainly not giving him a 10/10.

The coaching hires were definitely problematic. I have to disagree about moving Meszaros, though. He was asking for way too much for a guy not named Karlsson, coming off his ELC. Especially with the cap sitting where it was at the time.

Disagree about Volchenkov, as well. Based on his style of play, letting him go was the right thing to do. Again the cap was a factor.

This team is his at this point, and is trending upwards, notwithstanding the western road trip. Personally I would give him somewhere between 7 and 8.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

The coaching hires were definitely problematic. I have to disagree about moving Meszaros, though. He was asking for way too much for a guy not named Karlsson, coming off his ELC. Especially with the cap sitting where it was at the time.

Disagree about Volchenkov, as well. Based on his style of play, letting him go was the right thing to do. Again the cap was a factor.

This team is his at this point, and is trending upwards, notwithstanding the western road trip. Personally I would give him somewhere between 7 and 8.

I'd probably give him a 7. I'm happy with him for the most part but i think having a PMD and keeping Emery could have helped avoid some of the mess we endured for a few years. I truely believe that our top 6 was good enough with the CASH line and Vermette and Fisher. The problems related to are backend at the time though were only made worse by moves murray made. At least thats what i think. I can understand why Murray made his moves and thats good enough for me. He's not like Holmgren who traded his best layers out of no where.

 

[Officer Fred]

We went from Stanley Cup contenders to a first round Playoff Team under Murray!

But now knowing that Melnyk put a clamp on the salary Cap, I can't blame Murray!

The team was not a strong contender when it went to the Stanley Cup Final. The Ducks absolutely destroyed them, as they likely would have any other team out of the East that year.

Muckler was brought in to push a team built by Marshall Johnston over the top. He completely killed whatever organizational depth the Sens had at the time in his effort to do that. Take a look at a list of the transactions the team completed on his watch.

What did the team have left when he was fired? Only what was on the NHL roster, plus Brian Lee. His tenure was an utter failure, aside from an ultimately doomed appearance in the SCF.

 

[senatorsburly]

I'd probably give him a 7. I'm happy with him for the most part but i think having a PMD and keeping Emery.

Man emery was a complete cancer, do you not remember him showing up late for practices, and getting in fights at practices with neil and mcgrattan, and at that time Gerber had taken the reigns as the starter. We were better off without him.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I'd probably give him a 7. I'm happy with him for the most part but i think having a PMD and keeping Emery.

Man emery was a complete cancer, do you not remember him showing up late for practices, and getting in fights at practices with neil and mcgrattan, and at that time Gerber had taken the reigns as the starter. We were better off without him.

Ya i remember. The guy was going through a difficult time. For all the other years he was with us he was from what i remember a good teammate and a competent goalie. Emery was problem we needed to fix, we couldn't afford to get rid of him and set the organization back. Judging by how Emery has returned to the NHL it was wrong to let him go.

I actually dont remember him and neil fighting. I remember him going to the wrong arena, missing practices, fighting Mcgrattan(who had his own issues) and saying the cops were rascist.

 

[Officer Fred]

This is an pretty superficial way of looking at the situation.


If someone smokes for 40 years and quits at the age of 60 to replace the habit with Nicorette and then is diagnosed with lung cancer, what should the doctors conclude?

"Huh, the cancer must be from the nicorette. Doing something unhealthy for years and then quitting won't have any lasting consequence."


We didn't feel the negative effects of Muckler's regime until years later. The 2010-2011 team that hit rock-bottom was in a downward spiral due to injuries, Muckler's lack of foresight, the loss of a superstar (Heatley), and a poor coach. How many of those factors should we pin on Murray? I count one - the coach.

The dive in the standings was the after-effect of years of poor drafting. Take a look at the prospects thread and scroll down to Muckler's picks:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1494213

Not many of them there. No one's saying you have to change your opinion, feel free to give Murray whatever ranking you want. I'm not giving him a '10' either, but people are disputing what you've said because many of the trades that you listed as 'bad' were far from bad deals. Really, you wish we had kept Volchenkov? Muckler did some great things in his time as well, culminating in a SCF appearance.

Thus far, none of Murray's moves have proven to be franchise-crippling, and in fact, he's laid a very solid foundation for us to build on (Karlsson, Turris, Zibanejad, Ryan, Lehner, Anderson, Methot, etc.). Maybe you can count Heatley, but the guy turned into a pylon about two years later and it ended up being a blessing in disguise. I know Muckler isn't entirely to blame for the loss of Chara, Hossa, and Havlat, but I can't help but shake my head when I hear those names and think about what might have gone differently if they'd stuck around.

The real villain to blame here: the salary cap. Could not have been worse timing.

The best thing he did for the organization was to hire Bryan Murray as head coach.

 

[senatorsburly]

he also get into an altercation with a retiree and threatend his life because he cut him off on the highway. http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3de2cba7-fa31-486d-8430-116aa0d25a22

Dont get me wrong i loved the guy when he helped take us to the cup, but after that he complteley fell apart. D

 

[MiscBrah]

We're a mediocre team.
Thanks for...being average?

I'll fall over myself thanking Murray when a championship is delivered, or at the very least a first-place team in the standings that goes on a very, very, very deep playoff run. He's done well in some areas but has anyone forgotten four coaches, countless bad contracts, one playoff round won in close to ten years?

I love Murray as a scout/youth analyst (though I prefer Tim in that capacity) but as a finisher? Not so much.

lmao take a look at some other "rebuilds" and tell me the Murray's haven't done an outstanding job.

 

[senatorsburly]

I'm acting like he's an NHLer. Something that Brodeur, Leclaire, Auld, Glass, ect ect were not.

Drafted by muckler, no?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Drafted by muckler, no?

Can't remember.

 

[senatorsburly]

lol whatever they were both horrible, i remember a long time ago on the senators site there a page on glass and it was titled " Glass half full" and was saying how he cant one day be a starter for the team, thank god that never happend.