Complaining thread

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

I was not sure where to put this... I'm a Sens fan and I have a question for you guys, not a complaint but it is about a struggling player so it seems like it would fit best here...

What's your guys' take on Jarome Iginla? He had a very good start with 15 points in 17 games, but in his 10 games since then he has only one goal (and no assists). Is this the start of a downward trend to the 40 pt range (currently on a 45 pt pace), or is this just a little slump, from which he will rebound and put up 50+, or 60+ points? Does he look bad or is it just puck luck? Is he uninvolved, or getting less opportunities?

Thanks guys.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It was puck luck that got him the 15 points to begin with...his luck ran out as did his points. He's looked all kinds of bad to start the year and continued onwards. I'd be surprised to see him hit 40 points.

 

[tigervixxxen]

What he's doing points wise is fine for us, the fact that he's a complete liability in every other part of the game is a much greater concern. He shouldn't be on a scoring line and if they keep him off of one I think most of is will take the dip in points. He's still got the shot but he's declined everywhere else.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I was not sure where to put this... I'm a Sens fan and I have a question for you guys, not a complaint but it is about a struggling player so it seems like it would fit best here...

What's your guys' take on Jarome Iginla? He had a very good start with 15 points in 17 games, but in his 10 games since then he has only one goal (and no assists). Is this the start of a downward trend to the 40 pt range (currently on a 45 pt pace), or is this just a little slump, from which he will rebound and put up 50+, or 60+ points? Does he look bad or is it just puck luck? Is he uninvolved, or getting less opportunities?

Thanks guys.

Hes worse than ever. Just terribad

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

He's not done. He just doesn't fit well with this team. Our core is fast and young, He's old and slow. If we could use him in a bottom six role it would be nice

 

[The Kingslayer]

He's not done. He just doesn't fit well with this team. Our core is fast and young, He's old and slow. If we could use him in a bottom six role it would be nice

Best thing he can do is waive his nmc. He might be able to help another team absolutely but hes hurting this one with his lazy alow geriatric ass.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

Not his fault management signed him to it. It would be nice if he did though

 

[Iceberg]

He's not done. He just doesn't fit well with this team. Our core is fast and young, He's old and slow. If we could use him in a bottom six role it would be nice

He is already on the 3rd line.

 

[StLAvsFan]

He's not done. He just doesn't fit well with this team. Our core is fast and young, He's old and slow. If we could use him in a bottom six role it would be nice

Thing is, bottom-six caliber forwards need to be willing & able to always hustle out there, finish their checks consistently and play a high energy, defensively responsible brand of hockey. Iginla's not gonna give you that. The dude can still shoot the puck like a champ, but other than that he doesn't bring much more to the table besides always grinning alot. Can't blame him for that though. Those Brink's trucks full of money he's owed for the rest of this season & next would put a smile on anyones face.

 

[Tweaky]

I have a new complaint. It is about fans that seem to think Avs hockey is only about this year. Or worse, only about the future. This year matters. Next year matters. But history matters too. I have seen whining about the 20th team, the outdoor stuff, about "holding on to the past." So should the Avs just stop time so as to avoid having the 20th year be a less than stellar one? Should they have turned down the NHL's offer to have an outdoor game?

I wont argue mush on the old boys club complaints, as anyone with a brain knows how much of a student of the game both Roy and Sakic are, and no other former players are in positions of real responsibility with the club. Those two may make mistakes, and and certainly learning on the job, and maybe could have used a bit more seasoning before being put into their current roles. But they are not untouchable, and deserve a fair shot. I have just as many questions about them as anyone...but I do not believe they have any longer a leash than any other group out there, considering where they started and wheat they have accomplished so far.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I wish Jarome Iginla was not on this hockey team.

 

[Nzap]

I wish Jarome Iginla was not on this hockey team.

You're not the only one.
But he's here and not leaving, so we should do what we can to make the best of it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You're not the only one.
But he's here and not leaving, so we should do what we can to make the best of it.

scratch him? Just kidding. Kinda. I really don't know.

 

[henchman21]

I don't mind Iggy on the team... I mind Iggy being a fixture on the top PP unit when it is obviously not working at all. He should get limited minutes and be very sheltered until he decides he is willing to put in the work to be a PF again. If he isn't willing to do that, then he should only have limited minutes.

I just see him not be willing to make plays he did last year and even the years before. He isn't willing to give out or take nearly as much punishment as he used to. He wasn't great in that area last year, but this year is seems even more adverse.

 

[agentblack]

I couldnt help but laugh at him when his one timer on a 5 on 3 got blocked by the PIT d last night. Im not sure if they are delegating to him or if its the coaches that refuse to change that part up or what, but something needs to change there.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I have a new complaint. It is about fans that seem to think Avs hockey is only about this year. Or worse, only about the future. This year matters. Next year matters. But history matters too. I have seen whining about the 20th team, the outdoor stuff, about "holding on to the past." So should the Avs just stop time so as to avoid having the 20th year be a less than stellar one? Should they have turned down the NHL's offer to have an outdoor game?

I wont argue mush on the old boys club complaints, as anyone with a brain knows how much of a student of the game both Roy and Sakic are, and no other former players are in positions of real responsibility with the club. Those two may make mistakes, and and certainly learning on the job, and maybe could have used a bit more seasoning before being put into their current roles. But they are not untouchable, and deserve a fair shot. I have just as many questions about them as anyone...but I do not believe they have any longer a leash than any other group out there, considering where they started and wheat they have accomplished so far.

You completely missed the point, but that's fine. I don't expect everyone to dig that deep for the point I was trying to make.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You completely missed the point, but that's fine. I don't expect everyone to dig that deep for the point I was trying to make.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see it as a valid excuse for the team. It easily could be in the minus column, but its in the bucket with a larger collection of issues.

On another note, I do feel like roster wise. We have not done terrible with the options we've had.

Free-agency has not been great for defenders in the years we needed it, maybe some more savvy pick ups at the bottom half of the defense. However I can't see that top 3 spot being filled without the loss of MacK or another core piece.

There also was not much to replace Stastny or O'Reilly in the years they left either, and I don't think anyone here believes we should have retained them for their current contracts.

Roy and Sakic have had some things go their way, and some things not that would have been made worse by certain decisions.

My biggest complaint with Roy is how he handles young players, and his ability to accept where his roster is really at. This highlights why coaches are not given more control over personnel usually. It's harder for them to be objective long term when their job is to get results now on a day to day basis.

Roy is trying to play both sides of the line, and that's not easy.

 

[JoemAvs]

I don't mind Iggy on the team... I mind Iggy being a fixture on the top PP unit when it is obviously not working at all. He should get limited minutes and be very sheltered until he decides he is willing to put in the work to be a PF again. If he isn't willing to do that, then he should only have limited minutes.

I just see him not be willing to make plays he did last year and even the years before. He isn't willing to give out or take nearly as much punishment as he used to. He wasn't great in that area last year, but this year is seems even more adverse.

Yeah he really seems to have checked out. He is atrocious right now but IMO much of it simply stems from a lack of effort. He knows that the season is lost, he also knows that Roy does not dare to punish him for a lack of effort and he also knows that he does not have all that much left and he is not willing to use it up in a lost season.

I mean the guy is slow but he makes so many lazy plays and loses so many battles he should win, that I think he really could be better if he really wanted.
Age is absolutely a factor but I am not seeing him take on any kind of leadership role right now. Same goes for Tangs right now.
They really are floating right now. Maybe they don't believe in the coach. Maybe they are just too old. Maybe they don't believe in the quality of the team to do anything. But those two have been the biggest disappointment (aside from coaching) for me this season by far.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I get what you're saying, but I don't see it as a valid excuse for the team. It easily could be in the minus column, but its in the bucket with a larger collection of issues.

An excuse? Excusing something means saying it's ok because of a reason. I'm certainly not saying it's ok, it's a fundamental problem. I know everyone loves their doom and gloom but it's funny that to go even deeper than that and say fundamentally this organization is set up for failure is met with oh that's absurd. But that's fine, we can keep ranting about how Roy needs to be fired.

 

[CobraAcesS]

An excuse? Excusing something means saying it's ok because of a reason. I'm certainly not saying it's ok, it's a fundamental problem. I know everyone loves their doom and gloom but it's funny that to go even deeper than that and say fundamentally this organization is set up for failure is met with oh that's absurd. But that's fine, we can keep ranting about how Roy needs to be fired.

You're not the first one to bring up that issue, but I'd guess it's difficult to discuss something like that, in which the issue is so difficult to change. I don't think there is much of a realistic solution we could ask for there. Sakic did remove his shrine from the dressing room, that was a step in the right direction.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel on that one for me. I also don't want Roy fired, I want him to change how he views his current roster and sacrifice the short term for long term development of younger players. Give the young obvious building blocks long leashes and as much experience and real time NHL level coaching as possible.

It really really makes me afraid to think about what might happen if Zadorov and Mikko do not get more experience at the NHL level before next season. I also believe Roy may just keep us within hopes range of the playoffs for 80% of the season.

 

[JoemAvs]

An excuse? Excusing something means saying it's ok because of a reason. I'm certainly not saying it's ok, it's a fundamental problem. I know everyone loves their doom and gloom but it's funny that to go even deeper than that and say fundamentally this organization is set up for failure is met with oh that's absurd. But that's fine, we can keep ranting about how Roy needs to be fired.

Hey. I actually agree with you on that issue to some extent but I also want Roy gone .

I absolutely think that it is holding us back. Roy and Sakic would never have gotten those jobs if not for those glory days for once. Old boys club almost never work.
Lacroix and his pre-historic (or better pre-cap) management style certainly is still influencing this organisation to some extent.

The shadow of the glory days is still way too present although those are basically over for almost a decade now.

The simple truth is that we have to start winning again and become a good team before those shadows will fade a bit. There were simply too many terrible years and nostalgia helped coping.

But Roy and Sakic in charge are not exactly optimal for that to happen. Too much focus on what they have done as players and not enough on the current version of the Avs (or the success they are having in their new jobs).
Same goes for our media and marketing department.
The problem is that this version of the Avs simply does not sell well enough. We had two playoff seasons and four very putrid ones. Faces are ever changing.

So there is a lot of money to be made with nostalgia right now.

Only cure really is to start building a competitive team again (and IMO some organisational changes).

 

[Nzap]

There also was not much to replace Stastny or O'Reilly in the years they left either, and I don't think anyone here believes we should have retained them for their current contracts.

Would take Stastny in a heartbeat instead of Iggy.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't have any complaints about Roy and Sakic in terms of management. Yes, they made huge mistakes in the scouting and acquisition of Stuart and Iginla. No question. But overall they've done at the very least a decent job of revitalizing a weak farm system in a very short time.

I also don't even have a problem with Roy the coach when it comes to those times between games. He seems like a pretty good motivator, and he absolutely deserves credit for taking Matt Duchene aside and fixing his game.

I only have a problem with Roy when he's behind the bench. I think his lineup decisions can be, at times, faulty, and his in-game adjustments tend to range from slow to outright terrible. Last night was a prime example of game mismanagement by him. This is why I wouldn't mind Roy sticking around in some capacity, but I'm pretty much convinced he's not the guy who should be coaching this team going forward.

And I have no earthly idea why the two assistants are still around. Both of them IMO are beyond terrible.

 

[agentblack]

Is there a realistic scenario where the assistants are let go, Roy steps down but stays on as an assistant like a Paul maclean and Sacco, and they bring in ..? who's available? BB? that would be amazeballs.
Oates as a pp coach?

 

[JoemAvs]

Is there a realistic scenario where the assistants are let go, Roy steps down but stays on as an assistant like a Paul maclean and Sacco, and they bring in ..? who's available? BB? that would be amazeballs

No.
The only realistic scenario that has Roy staying on with the organisation after he stops being the headcoach is if he gets bumped up into higher management.

Roy is a prideful man IMO. No way that he would stay on coaching the same team after getting demoted. He also would lose face with the players IMO. Going from absolute head banana to second banana will cost you a lot of respect.

It also would rob him of his greatest strength which are IMO his motivational skills.