Complaining about refs...

[tarheelhockey]

This (other than the refs that obviously do a poor job) is the biggest complaint I get from players in Rec league is a guy that won't take the time to explain a call. Last night I did a men's league game that a player got called for a trip in the first for sticking his foot out. In the 2nd one of the players on his team lost an edge when an opposing players stick was right beside him and he thought it was a trip and said right behind me "that was way worse than what I did. f***ing unbelievable."

I had to explain that although the players stick was beside him, he just lost an edge. Sometimes players want to know why a call was made or not made.

The challenge is presentation. I try to educate players that coming to a ref to tell them they screwed up/missed a call/etc doesn't promote communication. Communication isn't going to the ref and complaining.

Best advice: "Stripes, no call there?" or "Our 22 went down there, what did you see?"

If game is not going well from your standpoint/too rough/etc: "Stripes, our bench feels like too much is going on out there? Do you see it the same way?"

Remember what your goal is. Getting the frustration off your chest and expecting the referee to accept it, is not within a ref's job description. (Although there is the odd occasion where I will let a player blow off a bit of steam IF I believe there is a good chance I missed a call.)

Every situation is unique in its own way, but I lot of the time I think it helps if the ref simply indicates that he saw the incident and made a judgment that it wasn't a penalty. Something as simple as a quick "no way" and keep moving, or "find me later and we'll talk about it" if it's a bad time for a conversation. Then you catch a guy at a faceoff to quietly say "I know he fell down, I'm watching out for it, but that one wasn't a penalty" and give the guy like 2 seconds to speak his mind before you drop the puck. Unless he's being completely over the top about it, that defuses the situation. Just giving the impression that you're actively watching, willing to communicate, understand the frustration, but also not interested in holding up the game for a rules debate.

Growing up, it was common for refs to make the wash-out signal when they knew something looked like it could have been a penalty. I get the impression that they were trained out of this, but I do think it make things worse when they appear to be oblivious to what just happened right in front of them.

 

[Slats432]

Every situation is unique in its own way, but I lot of the time I think it helps if the ref simply indicates that he saw the incident and made a judgment that it wasn't a penalty. Something as simple as a quick "no way" and keep moving, or "find me later and we'll talk about it" if it's a bad time for a conversation. Then you catch a guy at a faceoff to quietly say "I know he fell down, I'm watching out for it, but that one wasn't a penalty" and give the guy like 2 seconds to speak his mind before you drop the puck. Unless he's being completely over the top about it, that defuses the situation. Just giving the impression that you're actively watching, willing to communicate, understand the frustration, but also not interested in holding up the game for a rules debate.

Growing up, it was common for refs to make the wash-out signal when they knew something looked like it could have been a penalty. I get the impression that they were trained out of this, but I do think it make things worse when they appear to be oblivious to what just happened right in front of them.

I do this a lot. I will actually yell out "Nope, nope." when something happens and I want them to know there is no call there. I don't remember using the washout signal in that instance. The challenge is that players don't want clarity a lot of the time, they just want to bitch.

 

[MeHateHe]

Good refs are hard to find....I treat any and all with respect. But if you refuse to communicate, refuse to explain anything and miss calls/ruin games due to laziness and ineptness, expect some vocalization from coaches, players and parents.

Yeah, but there are striations at play. The kind of comments @Slats432 was talking about is one, and if delivered without sarcasm, that's fine. The complaints about missed calls, even if the guys get heated, I didn't mind that either. The stuff that I react to were the actual abusive stuff. And again, I'm primarily talking about stuff directed at younger officials - in most associations, about half the officials are 16 or younger, and they tend to face the worst of it. Often the worst division is U11, because everyone at that age thinks their kid is destined for the NHL.

Of course there's an expectation that officials communicate. I was an instructor for more than 20 years and it was a thing I drilled into the kids every chance I got. Most times, coaches just want to know that they've been heard, even if they know they won't get their way. But again, when you've got 14-15-16 year olds, facing an adult in a conversation is scary, so expecting them to engage in that way might not be reasonable.

At the end of the day, even if the referee is terrible, even if the referee is a mute, there's no excuse to abuse, harangue or harass. Especially if it's a young referee. Take it up with the RiC after the game if you need to.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I do this a lot. I will actually yell out "Nope, nope." when something happens and I want them to know there is no call there. I don't remember using the washout signal in that instance. The challenge is that players don't want clarity a lot of the time, they just want to bitch.

It really is true that some people just want to bitch, and a few seem to not be able to help themselves. To me the "nope, nope" goes a long way with people who have average inclinations to argue. It either heads off the argument, or at least limits it to a whiny retort rather than a full blown meltdown.

I will say, just in the past couple of months I've had two different instances where an opponent got upset at contact in front of the net and stopped playing to turn around and yell or engage in stickwork. Both times, the puck ended up right behind them and they ended up missing a likely goal because they felt the need to yell at an opponent during live play. There's no accounting for people who just completely lose their heads to that extent.

 

[MeHateHe]

The challenge is that players don't want clarity a lot of the time, they just want to bitch.

Many times, players (and to a lesser extent coaches) don't actually know what happened. One of the weird things of the human condition is that in times of extreme stress, our minds literally lie to us. (Not everyone, and not all the time, but still.) I've had players adamant and genuinely believing that X happened, when X clearly did not happen.

I still have more respect for those guys than I do for the guys who try arguing what the rule says.

 

[beakerboy]

Quebec hockey referee arrested for allegedly assaulting young player at end of match | TSN

A 42-year-old hockey referee was arrested on Sunday for allegedly assaulting a young player at the end of a game in the Quebec City area.

www.tsn.ca

Interesting given the context about refs taking a lot of abuse. I mean there is no excuse for a 42 year old man to get into any sort of physical altercation with a 10 year old, but it makes you wonder what actually happened.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Quebec hockey referee arrested for allegedly assaulting young player at end of match | TSN

A 42-year-old hockey referee was arrested on Sunday for allegedly assaulting a young player at the end of a game in the Quebec City area.

www.tsn.ca

Interesting given the context about refs taking a lot of abuse. I mean there is no excuse for a 42 year old man to get into any sort of physical altercation with a 10 year old, but it makes you wonder what actually happened.

What the hell.

I was at a U13 playoff game the other day only to see the other team get multiple unsportsmanlike penalties - apparently the players (age 12!) were just swearing away at the Refs. No excuse for that.

But if you're a 42 year old man there is absolutely, 100%, no reason to be laying hands on a 10 year old.

 

[DougKnowsBest]

I ran a hockey tournament with 10u travel and 12u house last weekend. I had trouble getting refs. I had to bribe some younger kids with hockey cards, candy, and gas cards to show up to some Sunday afternoon games. They ended up swallowing their whistles and loosing control of the games. We had some injuries and non calls that had repercussions. The pattern seems to be the parents in the stands get out of control and the refs swallow their whistles. So I ended up buying more expensive gas cards to get older refs Sunday afternoon and that calmed things down.


Tonight at the beer league I help run we had a grown man have a hissy fit. Argue with refs and insult the “challenged” individual I have keep score.

I don’t know what’s up with people.

 

[oldunclehue]

This past weekend had a ref issue in our final game of the year....we were home team and ref was somewhat local. In our area we have a local group of refs who have all said they never want to be labelled as "homers" so they ref with a bit of a chip out against home teams for this reason.

We are up 3-2 and a player takes a hitting penalty, we go out for the PK and in the corner one of my players goes for the puck, he is pushed up against the boards and the opposing player elbows him in the head and knocks him to the ground (player just got back from a concussion as well). Immediately after the hit in the corner they take the puck and drive the net while my player is down and score. No call.

I ask the ref nicely "what did you see in the corner there with my player being knocked over before the goal?" The ref immediately says it didn't happen, then turns his back and skates away, I asked about a couple missed tripping calls and the ref yells from centre ice infront of all the kids "you're just BITCHING". All my kids look back at me with jaws open to the swear and yell.

From then on the reffing was a complete and utter JOKE. Ref called 4 against us and 1 vs them, the momentum swung the other way and he put his whistle away for anything against us.

I lost my cool after they missed an offside for the game winning goal (season ending goal) as well as one of my players being hit with an elbow to the head causing him to miss the rest of the game with concussion like symptoms.

I admit I lost my cool after the 1st interaction with the ref, but I was professional and calm in my approach only to have the ref swear at me infront of the entire team.

I know I was wrong in how I reacted and yelled about the missed calls afterwards, but when your entire season is in the balance, all the practices, all the planning, emotional attachment etc etc, it's hard to keep your cool.

Anyways, after this season, where parents/assistant coaches tried pulling some things on our team. I'm done coaching. 8 years with ZERO issues at all. This year has been tough.

Good to all you coaches who put time/effort/emotion etc etc into it.

Refs I apologize for being invested in the game and team and for losing my cool anytime I have. But I've only done so when I believe the ref has been in the wrong.

 

[Slats432]

This past weekend had a ref issue in our final game of the year....we were home team and ref was somewhat local. In our area we have a local group of refs who have all said they never want to be labelled as "homers" so they ref with a bit of a chip out against home teams for this reason.

We are up 3-2 and a player takes a hitting penalty, we go out for the PK and in the corner one of my players goes for the puck, he is pushed up against the boards and the opposing player elbows him in the head and knocks him to the ground (player just got back from a concussion as well). Immediately after the hit in the corner they take the puck and drive the net while my player is down and score. No call.

I ask the ref nicely "what did you see in the corner there with my player being knocked over before the goal?" The ref immediately says it didn't happen, then turns his back and skates away, I asked about a couple missed tripping calls and the ref yells from centre ice infront of all the kids "you're just BITCHING". All my kids look back at me with jaws open to the swear and yell.

From then on the reffing was a complete and utter JOKE. Ref called 4 against us and 1 vs them, the momentum swung the other way and he put his whistle away for anything against us.

I lost my cool after they missed an offside for the game winning goal (season ending goal) as well as one of my players being hit with an elbow to the head causing him to miss the rest of the game with concussion like symptoms.

I admit I lost my cool after the 1st interaction with the ref, but I was professional and calm in my approach only to have the ref swear at me infront of the entire team.

I know I was wrong in how I reacted and yelled about the missed calls afterwards, but when your entire season is in the balance, all the practices, all the planning, emotional attachment etc etc, it's hard to keep your cool.

Anyways, after this season, where parents/assistant coaches tried pulling some things on our team. I'm done coaching. 8 years with ZERO issues at all. This year has been tough.

Good to all you coaches who put time/effort/emotion etc etc into it.

Refs I apologize for being invested in the game and team and for losing my cool anytime I have. But I've only done so when I believe the ref has been in the wrong.

What level?

 

[oldunclehue]

What level?

U13

 

[MeHateHe]

Refs I apologize for being invested in the game and team and for losing my cool anytime I have. But I've only done so when I believe the ref has been in the wrong.

Look, Cyrus...

Nobody ever loses their cool when they think the other guy is in the right, do they? 35+ years of refereeing and I have never had a guy come up to me and scream at me because he thought I was brilliant.

99% of the time the conflict between a referee and a coach/player/parent is about perspective. Unless you're sitting on the shoulder of the referee (in which case, get the hell off there) you can't tell what the referee has seen. You saw a missed offside. The officials saw something else. You saw one of your guys get hit unfairly. The referee probably saw something else. I guarantee you that the referee missed stuff that your players did too.

We used to say that the job of an official is to make decisions. In a typical lower-level hockey game, a referee is making several hundred decisions a game, because every time there's an interaction between two players from opposite teams, there is a decision to make: was there a penalty to call. Most of those decisions are easy, but a good percentage are not. If the official is in the correct position and they know the rules, and their judgement is sound, they're going to make good decisions.

But if they make bad decisions, what's the benefit to losing your cool? No referee is going to change their mind because a coach threw a hissy fit. In the best case, you'll rattle the official and you never know where that goes. Unsettled people almost always make bad decisions. Meanwhile, you're distracting your players and making it harder to have a good relationship with the official as the game goes on.

As for the piece about how the official spoke to you, I'm a big believer that coaches should raise that stuff with the referee in chief. As someone who's supervised a lot of referees, I never gave two shits about coaches who complained about missed/wrong calls. But I always cared if I found out referees were disrespectful to coaches. Of course, you lose merit if you were a jerk to the referee, but good officials are always taught to respond to disrespect with respect, to always treat coaches and players better than they're treated no matter what. Swearing at players/coaches was never acceptable, although sometimes you just talk in the vernacular of the game.

So if you think the referee was out of line in how you were treated (setting aside whether or not you agreed with the calls), you should tell your association. Maybe it goes nowhere, but it's a lot more useful than just stewing about it.

 

[oldunclehue]

Look, Cyrus...

Nobody ever loses their cool when they think the other guy is in the right, do they? 35+ years of refereeing and I have never had a guy come up to me and scream at me because he thought I was brilliant.

99% of the time the conflict between a referee and a coach/player/parent is about perspective. Unless you're sitting on the shoulder of the referee (in which case, get the hell off there) you can't tell what the referee has seen. You saw a missed offside. The officials saw something else. You saw one of your guys get hit unfairly. The referee probably saw something else. I guarantee you that the referee missed stuff that your players did too.

We used to say that the job of an official is to make decisions. In a typical lower-level hockey game, a referee is making several hundred decisions a game, because every time there's an interaction between two players from opposite teams, there is a decision to make: was there a penalty to call. Most of those decisions are easy, but a good percentage are not. If the official is in the correct position and they know the rules, and their judgement is sound, they're going to make good decisions.

But if they make bad decisions, what's the benefit to losing your cool? No referee is going to change their mind because a coach threw a hissy fit. In the best case, you'll rattle the official and you never know where that goes. Unsettled people almost always make bad decisions. Meanwhile, you're distracting your players and making it harder to have a good relationship with the official as the game goes on.

As for the piece about how the official spoke to you, I'm a big believer that coaches should raise that stuff with the referee in chief. As someone who's supervised a lot of referees, I never gave two shits about coaches who complained about missed/wrong calls. But I always cared if I found out referees were disrespectful to coaches. Of course, you lose merit if you were a jerk to the referee, but good officials are always taught to respond to disrespect with respect, to always treat coaches and players better than they're treated no matter what. Swearing at players/coaches was never acceptable, although sometimes you just talk in the vernacular of the game.

So if you think the referee was out of line in how you were treated (setting aside whether or not you agreed with the calls), you should tell your association. Maybe it goes nowhere, but it's a lot more useful than just stewing about it.

This is why I’m no longer coaching. Because I’ve grown to emotionally attached to the sacrifices of coaching that I get worked up. Best for everyone to just go be a dad at hockey.

Complaining to the referee in chief does nothing to make the situation better. There are no repercussions for a ref who ruins a game that will help. Just suck it up and move on.

 

[MeHateHe]

Complaining to the referee in chief does nothing to make the situation better. There are no repercussions for a ref who ruins a game that will help. Just suck it up and move on.

First: saying that referees ruin games says a lot, but maybe not what you think.

Second, if you would take the same amount of time you’ve dedicated to commenting on this thread to having a calm and rational conversation with your RiC, you would surprised at the results.

I’ve said the same thing a few different ways: if coaches/players/parents would stop treating officials like they’re brain dead and/or the enemy, the game would be a hell of a lot more tolerable all around.

 

[Slats432]