Proposal: Columbus/San Jose

[Pinkfloyd]

A 1st and decent prospect for an almost 40 year UFA C for a team that doesn't need that? Sounds like a massive over payment to most of hockey.

It sounds more like you just think Columbus should just bow down to the rest of the NHL and not even so trades for their needs but to act as a farm team in a way for every one else.

You're purposely misleading people with statements like almost 40 year UFA C. One, he's 38. Two, people trade for UFA's all the time at the trade deadline for 1st rounders and/or decent prospects. This almost 40 year old UFA center is one of the greatest playmakers ever to play the game and is still a very good playmaker and provides tremendous value even as he's not yet fully healthy. I can understand you not wanting to pay that price specifically but don't pretend like you speak for most of hockey and don't play some persecution complex out as if there is nothing to suggest that that is the likely price to acquire someone at the deadline.

You are definitely low-balling an offer for Thornton there is definitely a team out there that would absolutely trade at least a 1st round pick to acquire Thornton.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

A 1st and decent prospect for an almost 40 year UFA C for a team that doesn't need that? Sounds like a massive over payment to most of hockey.

It sounds more like you just think Columbus should just bow down to the rest of the NHL and not even so trades for their needs but to act as a farm team in a way for every one else.

Massive overpayment? Not by any means. Rentals like hanzal go for that every single year, and if you really don't think Thornton is more valuable than hanzal, I don't know what to tell you. Teams would literally be lining up to make that offer if he was available. You forget just a few short months ago 17 (SEVENTEEN) teams called him to try to get him to sign? Literally over half the league wants him.

It may not meet your needs, but it's like saying "hey, I know your car is worth $40,000, but I'm not at a point in my life where I can't afford that car payment, will you take $25,000?"

 

[Groo]

A 1st and decent prospect for an almost 40 year UFA C for a team that doesn't need that? Sounds like a massive over payment to most of hockey.

It sounds more like you just think Columbus should just bow down to the rest of the NHL and not even so trades for their needs but to act as a farm team in a way for every one else.

Sounds much more like yet another pathetic claim for fan martyrdom.

 

[georgiabluejacket]

Just curious but where do you see Dubois filling in in the future? Seems like you are already weak on centers both in prospect pool and NHL. Getting Thornton could be the difference between a 1st round exit and a deep run. It seems like if one of your centers go down, you can’t cover it. Granted I’m just looking from an outsiders perspective and don’t follow your team nearly as close as you so let me know if I’m wrong.

Things seem to be getting testy around here on the subject, but I actually agree with you in terms of Thornton being a stop gap until Dubois is officially "the man" which doesn't seem to be too far away with how he is playing lately. HOWEVER, an $8 million player is NOT what the Jackets need anyway you slice it.

I could see a 1st going SJ way, but we'd need a significant cap dump(think Dubinsky, who I'm not advocating trading, but the man is over-paid) to go along with him, which I'm sure SJ doesn't want, so the offer then becomes something like a 2nd, 3rd(2019) & B prospect, which isn't going to get it done.

Throw in the fact that along with potentially Joe, we'd still have Murray, Calvert, Nutivarra, Jenner, Johnson, & Bjorkstrand all re-signed this off season. Bob, Werenski, Motte, Panarin, Milano, & Sedlak the following & the $ is not there to fit Joe. On the flip side though, Joe's salary coming off the books would help re-sign some of these guys, in say 2 years

I'd love to see the Jackets add a top flight C, but with all the re-signings we have coming up in the very near future, I see no way we can add. In fact I think some subtraction(JMFJ, Calvert, Jenner) may be coming either in trade(for the mentioned C) or just not renewed.

 

[Gecklund]

Things seem to be getting testy around here on the subject, but I actually agree with you in terms of Thornton being a stop gap until Dubois is officially "the man" which doesn't seem to be too far away with how he is playing lately. HOWEVER, an $8 million player is NOT what the Jackets need anyway you slice it.

I could see a 1st going SJ way, but we'd need a significant cap dump(think Dubinsky, who I'm not advocating trading, but the man is over-paid) to go along with him, which I'm sure SJ doesn't want, so the offer then becomes something like a 2nd, 3rd(2019) & B prospect, which isn't going to get it done.

Throw in the fact that along with potentially Joe, we'd still have Murray, Calvert, Nutivarra, Jenner, Johnson, & Bjorkstrand all re-signed this off season. Bob, Werenski, Motte, Panarin, Milano, & Sedlak the following & the $ is not there to fit Joe. On the flip side though, Joe's salary coming off the books would help re-sign some of these guys, in say 2 years

I'd love to see the Jackets add a top flight C, but with all the re-signings we have coming up in the very near future, I see no way we can add. In fact I think some subtraction(JMFJ, Calvert, Jenner) may be coming either in trade(for the mentioned C) or just not renewed.

If we did this deal at the deadline, you should have enough space and if not then the Sharks can retain. Many Sharks reporters were saying that Joe took a bigger one year deal so that next year he can have a smaller cap hit if that makes sense. We all speculated his next deal might be around 4 but also he might sign for less if he’s trying for the cup. Also Joe is only signed for 1 year.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

I watched the Sharks a great deal in the last 10 years, always one of my favorite teams - have not seen a game recently. I'm a huge JT fan so I would be interested in getting the guy a shot to lead us in the playoffs. JT might just have enough in the tank to help the CBJ - so don't overuse him in the next few weeks alright?

Couture - what would that take?

 

[mikeyp24]

Since you watched them it seems like more then me recently (I saw them a lot between 09-14ish when I was living part time in Vancouver). What sonyou think of Pavelski too us instead. I've wanted him on the CBJ since I want to say 2010 but I might be off.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I watched the Sharks a great deal in the last 10 years, always one of my favorite teams - have not seen a game recently. I'm a huge JT fan so I would be interested in getting the guy a shot to lead us in the playoffs. JT might just have enough in the tank to help the CBJ - so don't overuse him in the next few weeks alright?

Couture - what would that take?

There are two assets I would be interested in from a Sharks POV, neither of them assets you’d be willing to move for him (understandably so).

 

[WTFetus]

If we did this deal at the deadline, you should have enough space and if not then the Sharks can retain. Many Sharks reporters were saying that Joe took a bigger one year deal so that next year he can have a smaller cap hit if that makes sense. We all speculated his next deal might be around 4 but also he might sign for less if he’s trying for the cup. Also Joe is only signed for 1 year.

Which reporters actually speculated this? I only remember one or two HF posters initially saying it.
He won't be asking for 8 million next year, but I don't think it's as simple as 8m this year ~4m next year to average it to 6m a year. He could very well just ask for 6m next year.

 

[mikeyp24]

There are two assets I would be interested in from a Sharks POV, neither of them assets you’d be willing to move for him (understandably so).

Really you have Couture as a player who's name would make sense in a trade for either Jones or Z? Even with ++ I don't see it. The only guys in the league with their value are honestly Eichel, Mathews, Kucherov (less likely because wing but too much talent) and McDavid. They are the top 2 D currently playing U24 and I'd say both are in the top 15 guys at least right now or around there skill wise so age and contract would make their value higher then a Hedman or a Vlassic. Absolutely more then a Subban. Everyone has a right to an opinion though even if you are wrong

But what are you looking for for Pavelski. I think only a year left after this year on his contract and is aging but still has reasonable value. Less then Thornton because his speed and slightly less skilled. But hes got the personality and playstyle I think fits us better then Jumbo.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Really you have Couture as a player who's name would make sense in a trade for either Jones or Z? Even with ++ I don't see it. The only guys in the league with their value are honestly Eichel, Mathews, Kucherov (less likely because wing but too much talent) and McDavid. They are the top 2 D currently playing U24 and I'd say both are in the top 15 guys at least right now or around there skill wise so age and contract would make their value higher then a Hedman or a Vlassic. Absolutely more then a Subban. Everyone has a right to an opinion though even if you are wrong

But what are you looking for for Pavelski. I think only a year left after this year on his contract and is aging but still has reasonable value. Less then Thornton because his speed and slightly less skilled. But hes got the personality and playstyle I think fits us better then Jumbo.

My dude, I literally said that Werenski or Jones wouldn’t make sense for Columbus.

Frankly my experience with Jackets fans is that they have never ever offered a fair deal for any of our centers, nor have they ever accepted anything Sharks fans offer, so I have no reason to believe this conversation will be different. What it sounds like, the way you’ve phrased asking about Pavelski, is that you think you can get him for practically nothing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s worth my time to make an offer.

 

[mikeyp24]

My dude, I literally said that Werenski or Jones wouldn’t make sense for Columbus.

Frankly my experience with Jackets fans is that they have never ever offered a fair deal for any of our centers, nor have they ever accepted anything Sharks fans offer, so I have no reason to believe this conversation will be different. What it sounds like, the way you’ve phrased asking about Pavelski, is that you think you can get him for practically nothing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s worth my time to make an offer.

Not at all He would cost because he has still produced well at least through lat year I've only seen 1 game this year so I can't speak for this year. But I'd say a 1st, prospect and roster player would be the cost. Milano or Nutivaara would be the roster guys I'd want to offer. The pick would be our 1st and the prospect I'd even be ok with Abramov. That' our top F prospect, pick, and a young roster player. I'd consider that fair and I'm willing to haggle.

And I know you said the trade wouldn't happen but it just seemed weord you would even mention them. You'd think you would aim for something like PLD and use him as the focus. Idk to me that was like someone saying what do you think about say Duchene and the person says only McDavid or Drai make sense when it' clear there' just no way. Didn't mean to sound like a dick I've ust seen people say so much stuff about how Werenski can't be considered value wise with the top Cs of the league and it gets annoying. He just took the lead on top goal scorer for D this year after having the 5th best rookie season by a D in the entire league's history.

I actually really respect your opinion before I started posting here is read a lot of your posts about USA hockey at least I'm pretty sure it was your username. You post about USA hockey a lot right? So yeah I would love a real discussion on a trade and even In threads later about USA hockey.

 

[Gecklund]

Not at all He would cost because he has still produced well at least through lat year I've only seen 1 game this year so I can't speak for this year. But I'd say a 1st, prospect and roster player would be the cost. Milano or Nutivaara would be the roster guys I'd want to offer. The pick would be our 1st and the prospect I'd even be ok with Abramov. That' our top F prospect, pick, and a young roster player. I'd consider that fair and I'm willing to haggle.

And I know you said the trade wouldn't happen but it just seemed weord you would even mention them. You'd think you would aim for something like PLD and use him as the focus. Idk to me that was like someone saying what do you think about say Duchene and the person says only McDavid or Drai make sense when it' clear there' just no way. Didn't mean to sound like a dick I've ust seen people say so much stuff about how Werenski can't be considered value wise with the top Cs of the league and it gets annoying. He just took the lead on top goal scorer for D this year after having the 5th best rookie season by a D in the entire league's history.

I actually really respect your opinion before I started posting here is read a lot of your posts about USA hockey at least I'm pretty sure it was your username. You post about USA hockey a lot right? So yeah I would love a real discussion on a trade and even In threads later about USA hockey.

I don’t think that that is what she meant. It was more of those are the two guys that would make sense considering Sharks needs. She even stated in her post that it doesn’t make sense for Columbus. Also if we are moving Pavelski to CLB I would say Murray+Milano+1st at a minimum

 

[mikeyp24]

How has he looked so far this year. I just got home from the hospital and I'm a little loopy on pain meds from my surgery so I don't really want to look up stats right now because the stats don't always accurately paint the picture of how someone is playing i.e. PLD. I had a spine fusion I'm my lower back yay me haha. Also what's his cap hit if you don't mind me asking rather then searching.

Milano and a 1st I can deal with as promised pieces and I'd like a similar aged guy if moving Murray but if it was the only option and Pavelski is still playing like a 60pt guy I'd probably pull the trigger. What about the 2 parts we agreed on, change Murray to Nutivaara who torts considers his #4 right now and is progressing very impressively in only his 2nd year on NA ice. He is also the more superior offensive threat then Murray. And then we throw in a conditional pick if we win our 1st series. Say a conditional 3rd in '19.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Not at all He would cost because he has still produced well at least through lat year I've only seen 1 game this year so I can't speak for this year. But I'd say a 1st, prospect and roster player would be the cost. Milano or Nutivaara would be the roster guys I'd want to offer. The pick would be our 1st and the prospect I'd even be ok with Abramov. That' our top F prospect, pick, and a young roster player. I'd consider that fair and I'm willing to haggle.

And I know you said the trade wouldn't happen but it just seemed weord you would even mention them. You'd think you would aim for something like PLD and use him as the focus. Idk to me that was like someone saying what do you think about say Duchene and the person says only McDavid or Drai make sense when it' clear there' just no way. Didn't mean to sound like a dick I've ust seen people say so much stuff about how Werenski can't be considered value wise with the top Cs of the league and it gets annoying. He just took the lead on top goal scorer for D this year after having the 5th best rookie season by a D in the entire league's history.

I actually really respect your opinion before I started posting here is read a lot of your posts about USA hockey at least I'm pretty sure it was your username. You post about USA hockey a lot right? So yeah I would love a real discussion on a trade and even In threads later about USA hockey.

Werenski is great but saying he has the value of the top young C’s in the league (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov) is just as silly as asking for him for Couture. Elite young centers are by far the most valuable commodity in the league. You’re also right to say that they’re the only players you’d consider for Werenski, just as Jones/Werenski are the only assets I’d have interest in for Couture. Make sense?

That’s not a terrible offer but it doesn’t really do much for me. Ask yourself, what use do we have for a player like Nutivaara? We have eight quality defensemen and are one of if not the best defensive teams in the league. Milano is infinitely more interesting, I suppose. As for Abramov, I’m gonna guess the Sharks place zero value on him. Small, plays in the Q, Russian? All things the Sharks undervalue. A mid-late 1st is eh, considering the Sharks’ drafting skills.

PLD is more the type of asset I’d be looking for, although you obviously wouldn’t move him for Pavelski. Quantity is useless for the Sharks, we have tons of depth. We need a big piece up front. Pavelski isn’t having a good year but he’s been an elite goal scorer the past few years and as captain, he has more value to me than that package. I’d rather keep Pavelski and hope he bounces back than move him for a package of mediocre assets that the Sharks would inevitably squander.

As for Ryan Murray, SJSharks39 is oddly fixated on him in every Sharks/Jackets thread, but I have zero interest in him. Not only is he extremely mediocre, but we are literally oozing LHD our the ears. Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Brenden Dillon, and Joakim Ryan are all guys I’d prefer to Murray, and Paul Martin isn’t going anywhere with that contract.

 

[mikeyp24]

Werenski is great but saying he has the value of the top young C’s in the league (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov) is just as silly as asking for him for Couture. Elite young centers are by far the most valuable commodity in the league. You’re also right to say that they’re the only players you’d consider for Werenski, just as Jones/Werenski are the only assets I’d have interest in for Couture. Make sense?

That’s not a terrible offer but it doesn’t really do much for me. Ask yourself, what use do we have for a player like Nutivaara? We have eight quality defensemen and are one of if not the best defensive teams in the league. Milano is infinitely more interesting, I suppose. As for Abramov, I’m gonna guess the Sharks place zero value on him. Small, plays in the Q, Russian? All things the Sharks undervalue. A mid-late 1st is eh, considering the Sharks’ drafting skills.

PLD is more the type of asset I’d be looking for, although you obviously wouldn’t move him for Pavelski. Quantity is useless for the Sharks, we have tons of depth. We need a big piece up front. Pavelski isn’t having a good year but he’s been an elite goal scorer the past few years and as captain, he has more value to me than that package. I’d rather keep Pavelski and hope he bounces back than move him for a package of mediocre assets that the Sharks would inevitably squander.

As for Ryan Murray, SJSharks39 is oddly fixated on him in every Sharks/Jackets thread, but I have zero interest in him. Not only is he extremely mediocre, but we are literally oozing LHD our the ears. Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Brenden Dillon, and Joakim Ryan are all guys I’d prefer to Murray, and Paul Martin isn’t going anywhere with that contract.

I understand what you mean and get why you would ask that I honestly think it was just habit of people always attacking the CBJ pieces because they will try and use stats that it's hard to use on jacket players. Our team has guys who can score 30 if you put them on an offensive minded team but our team is built to stop the other team from even shooting the puck and getting as many shots on net as possible and at any angle you have available. So instead of 4 30 goal scorers we do 8 15 goal scorers and our team will play great together and it helps the team as a whole but other fans whondont understand our teams mindset and how they want to win just say blah blah look at the points rather then researching the teams play style.

That being said I personally value a true #1D More then a true #1C. The turning point of our franchise was getting Jones for RyJo, Bob changing his training from mainly strength to flexibility, and Torts coming in who is very 2 way focused. The same reason I always say the only pieces we won't move are z, Jones, and Bob because everything else while we may love Can always be had for a price but those 3 pieces are the glue that holds our team together. And those 2 imo are the top 2 U25 and I will likely be biased whether I'm doing it consciously or subconsciously. But you can't move the best young R or LHD away unless you are getting the best C in that same age range. Honestly I wouldn't give up Z for any other LHD in the league and I wouldn't trade Jones for any other RHD in the league. Only likely one 1 those 3 top of the league players and no one else.

I also understand your captain holding more value to your team then rather let him go for more of the same or quantity. Also understand the Russian factor though this kid isn't one to leave to the K he stayed in the Q rather then to leave and he'd rather be in the AHL right now if he could his dream is the NHL. But while he has amazing hands speed, and IQ he does get bodied quite a bit which worries me but he's so young he will put on some muscle as he gets closer to becoming pro. Not trying to convince you just pointing out what others see in him. And if you have the depth on D you are saying that's really our best area to make moves happen and you don't need it.


What are you guys thinking about for Thornton at the TDL again? With and without retention.

Also were you the team USA poster or is there another jukebox sounding username haha I'm curious =p also are you a lady? Another poster saod she and I didn't know so if yes I just want to make sure Ondont automatically call you bro or dude haha.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I understand what you mean and get why you would ask that I honestly think it was just habit of people always attacking the CBJ pieces because they will try and use stats that it's hard to use on jacket players. Our team has guys who can score 30 if you put them on an offensive minded team but our team is built to stop the other team from even shooting the puck and getting as many shots on net as possible and at any angle you have available. So instead of 4 30 goal scorers we do 8 15 goal scorers and our team will play great together and it helps the team as a whole but other fans whondont understand our teams mindset and how they want to win just say blah blah look at the points rather then researching the teams play style.

That being said I personally value a true #1D More then a true #1C. The turning point of our franchise was getting Jones for RyJo, Bob changing his training from mainly strength to flexibility, and Torts coming in who is very 2 way focused. The same reason I always say the only pieces we won't move are z, Jones, and Bob because everything else while we may love Can always be had for a price but those 3 pieces are the glue that holds our team together. And those 2 imo are the top 2 U25 and I will likely be biased whether I'm doing it consciously or subconsciously. But you can't move the best young R or LHD away unless you are getting the best C in that same age range. Honestly I wouldn't give up Z for any other LHD in the league and I wouldn't trade Jones for any other RHD in the league. Only likely one 1 those 3 top of the league players and no one else.

I also understand your captain holding more value to your team then rather let him go for more of the same or quantity. Also understand the Russian factor though this kid isn't one to leave to the K he stayed in the Q rather then to leave and he'd rather be in the AHL right now if he could his dream is the NHL. But while he has amazing hands speed, and IQ he does get bodied quite a bit which worries me but he's so young he will put on some muscle as he gets closer to becoming pro. Not trying to convince you just pointing out what others see in him. And if you have the depth on D you are saying that's really our best area to make moves happen and you don't need it.


What are you guys thinking about for Thornton at the TDL again? With and without retention.

Also were you the team USA poster or is there another jukebox sounding username haha I'm curious =p also are you a lady? Another poster saod she and I didn't know so if yes I just want to make sure Ondont automatically call you bro or dude haha.

Star #1 defensemen can be found outside the top-5 of the draft. I would wager, without counting, that about half of the #1D in the league were drafted outside the top-10, even.

Quality #1 centers (not borderline guys like Derek Brassard, Ryan O’Reilly, Bryan Little, I mean guys who would be #1C’s on contending teams) cannot be found outside the top-5. Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Barkov, Johansen, Backstrom, Sedin (in his prime), Toews, E. Staal (in his prime), Tavares, Stamkos, Mackinnon, Thornton, Seguin, potentially Draisaitl, and the list goes on. There are very few exceptions within the past decade+: Scheifele (a#7th overall pick), Kopitar (nobody believed in a Slovenian becoming an NHLer), Getzlaf (that stacked 2003 draft where half the first round became stars). Am I missing anyone?

Whereas on D, guys like Burns, Karlsson, Subban, Weber, Josi, McDonagh, Giordano, Keith, Byguflien, etc. were drafted with picks of teams in or just missing playoff positions (or in the later rounds). A lot of those guys were traded too. A top defenseman may have a bigger effect on the game, but a top center is much more valuable.

On Abramov: I see your points and I don’t disagree, but what’s the difference between Abramov and Goldobin, whom the Sharks despised and traded for a 30 year old third liner at the first chance they could?

Throw me a 1st for Thornton with 50% retained and I’m happy.

I probably am the Jux you’re thinking off, I have posted in USA hockey threads. I am a woman, but as far as I’m concerned ‘dude’ is a gender neutral word.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Quality #1 centers (not borderline guys like Derek Brassard, Ryan O’Reilly, Bryan Little, I mean guys who would be #1C’s on contending teams) cannot be found outside the top-5. Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Barkov, Johansen, Backstrom, Sedin (in his prime), Toews, E. Staal (in his prime), Tavares, Stamkos, Mackinnon, Thornton, Seguin, potentially Draisaitl, and the list goes on. There are very few exceptions within the past decade+: Scheifele (a#7th overall pick), Kopitar (nobody believed in a Slovenian becoming an NHLer), Getzlaf (that stacked 2003 draft where half the first round became stars). Am I missing anyone?

I think the Detroit Red Wings want to have a word with you.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think the Detroit Red Wings want to have a word with you.

What word would that be? They haven’t drafted a #1C or #1D since the turn of the millennium, and drafting is a whole heckuva lot different now than it was in the 1990’s.

 

[Hostile Offer]

What word would that be? They haven’t drafted a #1C or #1D since the turn of the millennium, and drafting is a whole heckuva lot different now than it was in the 1990’s.

Well since you mentioned Thornton, I was thinking Zetterberg and Datsyuk could be mentioned as well. Franchise cornerstones drafted in the late rounds. Yes, it was in the 90's but near the turn of the millennium anyway.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well since you mentioned Thornton, I was thinking Zetterberg and Datsyuk could be mentioned as well. Franchise cornerstones drafted in the late rounds. Yes, it was in the 90's but near the turn of the millennium anyway.

Franchise centers are still drafted 1st overall. Franchise centers are not drafted in the 7th round anymore. I don’t think Datsyuk and Zetterberg are remotely relevant to team-building in this day and age.

 

[Viqsi]

Werenski is great but saying he has the value of the top young C’s in the league (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov) is just as silly as asking for him for Couture.

He's a peer of them and is absolutely at that level of value, no question. If you do not accept that as truth, then there is no realistic hope for negotiation here. Draft position doesn't say anything about their value - just about how it's easier for scouts to find top Cs.

 

[Crede777]

I think there's still a chance for a franchise level center to get drafted outside of the top-5 but I think there'd need to be a Russian factor (similar to Kuznetsov) or an undersized NCAA guy (like Tyler Johnson). Not saying those two are franchise centers right now, but I could see those two issues resulting in a guy going outside the top-5 but turning into a franchise player (think Gaudreau but at center).

But yeah, by and large you need:
1. To win the draft lottery;
2. In a year with a franchise center available;
3. And that center avoids major injuries during draft or draft +1 years.

____

To the trade.

San Jose can't move Couture given their roster. Marleau is gone. Thornton and Pavelski are on their way out. To remain remotely competitive, the Sharks need Couture, Burns, and Martin Jones to remain good.

CBJ can't move Werenski unless it's for a franchise center. I mentioned in another thread that most CBJ fans would say Werenski is outright untouchable. I think he could be moved for someone like Tavares (signed) because the CBJ also have as LHD Murray, Johnson, Nutivaara, Carlsson, and Harrington. It'd be a sizeable step back at the LHD position, but the CBJ would remain competitive on defense and would have a franchise center.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If the Jackets might be interested in on of the three Sharks centers mentioned in here, and I'm not convinced they should be, it should be Big Joe at the deadline.

Couture is just not attainable without elite pieces in return. That's totally fair, and CBJ balks.

Pavelski has been one of my favorite players and he's still a really good player, but not as good, IMO, as the kinds of pieces it would take for the Sharks to move him.

For the value to the roster and the return required, Thornton makes the most sense.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He's a peer of them and is absolutely at that level of value, no question. If you do not accept that as truth, then there is no realistic hope for negotiation here. Draft position doesn't say anything about their value - just about how it's easier for scouts to find top Cs.

“If I do not accept that as truth”? Interestingly, I had previously assumed that you, like me, were a hockey fan with an online account on HF Boards dot com and an opinion, but I guess I was wrong!

I doubt there’s a single GM in the league that is trading a Connor McDavid, Auston Matthews, Jack Eichel, or Aleksander Barkov for a Zach Werenski. I get that you love your player, and that’s understandable. If I had a player as incredible as Werenski, I would too.

But the fact that it’s very possible to get franchise defensemen (and wingers) outside the top-5 of the draft, while it is impossible to find franchise centers outside the top-5, absolutely affects their respective values.