GDT: Columbus Blue Jackets at New Jersey Devils|12:30 pm|12-23-18

[MoeBartoli]

Defense has been lights out since management stepped in , and put Shaw back where he belongs . If we had a legit #2 C , this team could make a run this year . If not , most likely a first round loss vs the Pens or Caps . Wennberg needs to go

Agree with everything you said, except I don't know that Wennberg necessarily has to go.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Wennberg is not an asset. Why is that so hard to admit?

I really struck a nerve with the Leino comparison me thinks!

You didn’t strike a nerve. I’m just pushing the point that your assertion is absurd.

 

[MAHJ71]

Hischier was only the best guy in a weak draft. He is no Matthews, McDavid, or Hughes.

I'd be more p*ssed that a team like Chicago or LA will probably wind up with him.

Yeah.... I guess its just the part of me that doesn't want to see Metro teams getting high lottery picks.

 

[Maylo]

Hischier was only the best guy in a weak draft. He is no Matthews, McDavid, or Hughes.

Elias Pettersson says Hello.

 

[Bobcat110]

4 wins and 2 SOs. Bob should be NHL top star for week

#1 Star of the Week

 

[Monk]

#1 Star of the Week

Trade him now while his value is high.

 

[thebus88]

Hello yes, I’d like to order more “Bob sucks should be traded” hot takes please?

Another TEAM win.

Remember, the goalies job is to stop pucks.

And he's not coming back next year.

And he has "sucked" at times this year.

 

[Monk]

Another TEAM win.

Remember, the goalies job is to stop pucks.

And he's not coming back next year.

And he has "sucked" at times this year.

We've all sucked at times this year.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

You didn’t strike a nerve. I’m just pushing the point that your assertion is absurd.

Really.

Check this out. Centers who have played 33 games:

NHL.com - Stats

122 are listed. Someone who makes $4.9 million per year is in last place. If that's "value" for his contract, then it's an interesting concept of value that you have.

Ville Leino - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Alexander Wennberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Check out the similarity in the rate of points deterioration.

 

[CBJx614]

Really.

Check this out. Centers who have played 33 games:

NHL.com - Stats

122 are listed. Someone who makes $4.9 million per year is in last place. If that's "value" for his contract, then it's an interesting concept of value that you have.

Ville Leino - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Alexander Wennberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Check out the similarity in the rate of points deterioration.

Manipulate it however you want.

When you filter by p/gp he's around the same as players such as Anisimov(4.5M), Stepan(6.5M), Henrique(5.8M), Marleau(6.2M), Spezza(7.5M), Boyle(2.2M), Bozak(5M) and Carter(5.2M).


Also the Veino comparisons are embarrassing. He topped 20 pts in the NHL twice in his career. Something Wennberg has done every season in the NHL and wasnt ever half the player Wennberg is defensively but okay, keep reaching.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Another TEAM win.

Remember, the goalies job is to stop pucks.

And he's not coming back next year.

And he has "sucked" at times this year.

So when he plays well, its his job to, but when Korpisalo does it means Bobrovsky must go. Got it.

 

[Viqsi]

Really.

Check this out. Centers who have played 33 games:

NHL.com - Stats

122 are listed. Someone who makes $4.9 million per year is in last place. If that's "value" for his contract, then it's an interesting concept of value that you have.

Would folks like to know why CR chose 33 games as the cutoff, despite the fact that Wennberg has played 36? Because at 34 games, there's only 111 centers listed, so he doesn't get to make it sound like there's so many players so much "better" than Wennberg that way (and it only goes down from there). And at 31, Noel Accari shows up with zero goals so there's no longer the visceral appeal of "he's in LAST PLACE". 32 and 33 both have the same number of centers listed, so 33 was picked because a larger number gives a greater appearance of "fairness".

Here's a simple question you should ask yourself with this entire line of thought: Is Alex Wennberg equivalent in value to Riley Nash (who also has only one goal scored)? If you can laugh at the sheer absurdity of that suggestion, then you can happily ignore this nonsense.

 

[thebus88]

So when he plays well, its his job to, but when Korpisalo does it means Bobrovsky must go. Got it.

Who said that? You are the 1 talking in "absolutes" like that. While games can be similar, no 2 games are exactly the same. Many games are much different on the goalies.

Would folks like to know why CR chose 33 games as the cutoff, despite the fact that Wennberg has played 36? Because at 34 games, there's only 111 centers listed, so he doesn't get to make it sound like there's so many players so much "better" than Wennberg that way (and it only goes down from there). And at 31, Noel Accari shows up with zero goals so there's no longer the visceral appeal of "he's in LAST PLACE". 32 and 33 both have the same number of centers listed, so 33 was picked because a larger number gives a greater appearance of "fairness".

Really, this is the defense now? 110 or 120, who cares? This is far way away from some of the names people were comparing him to a year or so ago, not to mention ANY comparison he's gotten to Dubois since then.

What is the cap hit of Noel Accari's and the others "ranked" around Wenny? And lets not act like he's flying up and down the ice making "plays" all over and digging pucks out of the corner. He does it once or twice in a game and his defenders make it seem like he's made a significant impact on the game.

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Here's a simple question you should ask yourself with this entire line of thought: Is Alex Wennberg equivalent in value to Riley Nash (who also has only one goal scored)? If you can laugh at the sheer absurdity of that suggestion, then you can happily ignore this nonsense.

They aren't equivalent, but its not as far off as you want to make it seem. 1st, lets just look at who you are comparing him to. 2nd, even though many of us had "unrealistic" expectations for Nash coming into the year, more than a few people mentioned he could bump Wenny down the depth chart. 3rd, after the 1st couple weeks, Nash, while not looking like a "gamebreaker", has looked a lot better and not out of place and actually FILLED a ROLE on the 4th line that has had a pretty big impact on the team winning games. Wennberg this year has already failed in this role while also "failing" or lacking chemistry with multiple other players.

Say what you want but Bjorkstrand doesn't have anybody within 10 feet of him and there's a HUGE lane right to him.

 

[CBJx614]

Who said that? You are the 1 talking in "absolutes" like that. While games can be similar, no 2 games are exactly the same. Many games are much different on the goalies.



Really, this is the defense now? 110 or 120, who cares? This is far way away from some of the names people were comparing him to a year or so ago, not to mention ANY comparison he's gotten to Dubois since then.

What is the cap hit of Noel Accari's and the others "ranked" around Wenny? And lets not act like he's flying up and down the ice making "plays" all over and digging pucks out of the corner. He does it once or twice in a game and his defenders make it seem like he's made a significant impact on the game.

​

They aren't equivalent, but its not as far off as you want to make it seem. 1st, lets just look at who you are comparing him to. 2nd, even though many of us had "unrealistic" expectations for Nash coming into the year, more than a few people mentioned he could bump Wenny down the depth chart. 3rd, after the 1st couple weeks, Nash, while not looking like a "gamebreaker", has looked a lot better and not out of place and actually FILLED a ROLE on the 4th line that has had a pretty big impact on the team winning games. Wennberg this year has already failed in this role while also "failing" or lacking chemistry with multiple other players.

Say what you want but Bjorkstrand doesn't have anybody within 10 feet of him and there's a HUGE lane right to him.

So Nash is more valuable because he fills a 4th line role and no special teams?

Yet Wennberg is valueless even though he gets 2/3 line minutes, PK and PP time. But doesn't fit a defined role? Okay cool.


It's actually hilarious watching you guys keep grasping at straws to devalue Wennberg, yet he has a pretty significant role on a team fighting for the lead in the division. So it's pretty apparent that those in charge don't feel he holds no value or he wouldn't be playing in such critical roles.

 

[Viqsi]

Really, this is the defense now?

Nope. It's pointing out that he massaged the numbers to maximize emotional impact. It's just one of many ways in which that argument is deeply flawed. It's the kind of nonsense that can also be used to "justify" an argument that Joe Pavelski is superior to Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby both.

They aren't equivalent, but its not as far off as you want to make it seem.

Oh for the love of G-d Almighty. What's next, claiming that there's a close comparison between Adam Clendening and Seth Jones?

1st, lets just look at who you are comparing him to.

I'm not. I do not endorse that comparison. I think it is a crappy comparison that blithely ignores as much as possible in order to attempt to paint Wennberg in the worst possible light.

2nd, even though many of us had "unrealistic" expectations for Nash coming into the year, more than a few people mentioned he could bump Wenny down the depth chart.

And if you look carefully, you might notice that those folks who said that are exactly the same folks ranting about Wennberg now - i.e. they don't like him, they never liked him, and they desperately wanted him gone then as well. This is therefore a circular argument.

3rd, after the 1st couple weeks, Nash, while not looking like a "gamebreaker", has looked a lot better and not out of place and actually FILLED a ROLE on the 4th line that has had a pretty big impact on the team winning games.

And Wennberg, also after the first couple of weeks, has also looked a lot better and actually filled a role that has had a pretty big impact on the team winning games. The difference is, the role he's filled is a much bigger one (#2-3C and lots of PK time; PP time as well, but nobody on the PP is helping this team win that way right now ), and correspondingly he's produced more points.

Wennberg this year has already failed in this role while also "failing" or lacking chemistry with multiple other players.

So has Nash. Repeatedly. Nash was supposed to be a #3-4C, and instead he's a fourth-line winger because that's the most he's been able to handle. And while folks do complain about Nash, it's nowhere near the level of vitriol and sheer hatred that's directed towards Wennberg.

 

[domi28]

Manipulate it however you want.

When you filter by p/gp he's around the same as players such as Anisimov(4.5M), Stepan(6.5M), Henrique(5.8M), Marleau(6.2M), Spezza(7.5M), Boyle(2.2M), Bozak(5M) and Carter(5.2M).


Also the Veino comparisons are embarrassing. He topped 20 pts in the NHL twice in his career. Something Wennberg has done every season in the NHL and wasnt ever half the player Wennberg is defensively but okay, keep reaching.

Using a bunch of guys that are past their primes (or one that doesn't even play center) as comparables probably isn't the best way to prove or disprove someone's worth in my mind. FYI I know Marleau is usually listed as a center/winger but he hasn't played center all year.

My thoughts on Wennberg in no particular order:
Is he overpaid? Maybe. He was basically signed based on one year of production where he played 1C.
Can he score break 50 points again? Maybe but he would need to be put with two talented wingers. The dropoff after the 1st line wingers on this team is pretty steep compared to most of the rest of the league. There simply are not two wingers after Panarin and Atkinson that Torts could put with Wennberg to get him back to 50 points.
Is he still valuable? Yup. Someone on the team has to play the shutdown center role and Wennberg is darn good at it.
What do I think he should be paid based on this season and last season? Or known as the time since PLD arrived? $4m AAV

 

[major major]

Using a bunch of guys that are past their primes (or one that doesn't even play center) as comparables probably isn't the best way to prove or disprove someone's worth in my mind. FYI I know Marleau is usually listed as a center/winger but he hasn't played center all year.

My thoughts on Wennberg in no particular order:
Is he overpaid? Maybe. He was basically signed based on one year of production where he played 1C.
Can he score break 50 points again? Maybe but he would need to be put with two talented wingers. The dropoff after the 1st line wingers on this team is pretty steep compared to most of the rest of the league. There simply are not two wingers after Panarin and Atkinson that Torts could put with Wennberg to get him back to 50 points.
Is he still valuable? Yup. Someone on the team has to play the shutdown center role and Wennberg is darn good at it.
What do I think he should be paid based on this season and last season? Or known as the time since PLD arrived? $4m AAV

He's actually never been used as the shutdown center. Wennberg has a pretty good track record of tilting the ice with a more offensive deployment, and he has exceptional defensive anticipation, and good penalty killing, but for whatever reason they've never tried him as the principal shutdown centre. Right now that role is Jenner's and he's doing a great job.

I think it's a bit of a mistake to see he was only signed on that peak season. Consistent 60 pt players usually make a lot more than $4.9m per. Everyone and their grandmother mentioned at the end of that season that Wennberg's secondary assists on the PP had inflated his numbers, and that he'd have to do a lot more at evens to prove his worth. Which he did - his primary assist rate at evens went way up. But there's still more needed from his game.

I'd personally like to see Wennberg tried with Panarin again - they only had a short stretch together at the start of last season.

 

[SuperGenius]

Another TEAM win.

Remember, the goalies job is to stop pucks.

And he's not coming back next year.

And he has "sucked" at times this year.

Aaaaannnnd goalposts keep moving.

 

[CBJx614]

Using a bunch of guys that are past their primes (or one that doesn't even play center) as comparables probably isn't the best way to prove or disprove someone's worth in my mind. FYI I know Marleau is usually listed as a center/winger but he hasn't played center all year.

My thoughts on Wennberg in no particular order:
Is he overpaid? Maybe. He was basically signed based on one year of production where he played 1C.
Can he score break 50 points again? Maybe but he would need to be put with two talented wingers. The dropoff after the 1st line wingers on this team is pretty steep compared to most of the rest of the league. There simply are not two wingers after Panarin and Atkinson that Torts could put with Wennberg to get him back to 50 points.
Is he still valuable? Yup. Someone on the team has to play the shutdown center role and Wennberg is darn good at it.
What do I think he should be paid based on this season and last season? Or known as the time since PLD arrived? $4m AAV

They may not be the best comparables but they the centers directly around him(pt wise) who are not in ELCs. And he fits almost directly with what they're being paid. The only difference is most of them are goal scorers. Where as Wennberg is a playmaker and therefore deserves to be paid less for some reason.

 

[domi28]

He's actually never been used as the shutdown center. Wennberg has a pretty good track record of tilting the ice with a more offensive deployment, and he has exceptional defensive anticipation, and good penalty killing, but for whatever reason they've never tried him as the principal shutdown centre. Right now that role is Jenner's and he's doing a great job.

I think it's a bit of a mistake to see he was only signed on that peak season. Consistent 60 pt players usually make a lot more than $4.9m per. Everyone and their grandmother mentioned at the end of that season that Wennberg's secondary assists on the PP had inflated his numbers, and that he'd have to do a lot more at evens to prove his worth. Which he did - his primary assist rate at evens went way up. But there's still more needed from his game.

I'd personally like to see Wennberg tried with Panarin again - they only had a short stretch together at the start of last season.

My apologies on the shutdown center part. I should pay more attention to the matchups when the games are on. lol

I have to disagree with the consistent 60 pt player though. He first season was 20 points where he was basically thrown to the wolves because the team lacked center options. His next was 40 points where he showed glimpses of being really good then his breakthrough was his third when he scored 59 pts. That's not worthy of a consistent 60pt player contract and Jarmo signed him to an appropriate contract. It's only because of his drop off following that contract that I think he might be a little overpaid.

I wouldn't mind seeing him with Panarin also. Try Panarin-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand as a line and Duclair-PLD-Atkinson as a line (or something like that) and see if it works. The Duclair-PLD-Atkinson line would probably need to be on the ice with a defensive minded dmen pairing but it just might work. When I see the lines right now I see combos that can work in a single game but would likely not do well in a 7 game series after the other team makes adjustments.

 

[domi28]

They may not be the best comparables but they the centers directly around him(pt wise) who are not in ELCs. And he fits almost directly with what they're being paid. The only difference is most of them are goal scorers. Where as Wennberg is a playmaker and therefore deserves to be paid less for some reason.

If you're going 3 points higher or lower than Wennberg you have left out a lot of guys making a lot less than Wennberg besides Boyle. Eakin, AA, Filppula, Shore, Coyle, Eller, Perreault, McCann, Jenner, and Richardson are all close to Wennberg in points and making a lot less. Four more guys can go on that list if 13 point Boyle is a comparable.

I'm not in the Wennberg is terrible and his contract is a huge overpayment camp but let's not be cherry picking easily researched things to try to prove a point.

Every team has players making more than they probably should be. I'm way more worried about the Dubi and Foligno contracts with the NMC/NTCs than I am Wennberg. If people think the Wennberg contract is the biggest problem contract wise this team is in pretty good shape salary cap wise.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Agree with everything you said, except I don't know that Wennberg necessarily has to go.

So , let’s say we go out and get a #2 C , then you have Jenner at#3 c, you going to play a Wennberg at the #4 C ? . You have Jenner , Dubinsky, Nash , Wennberg for the #3, and 4c , and Jenner is more effective as a center then Wennberg . That leaves Dubi, Wenny and Nash for #4 spot . That’s a lot of money for a 4th line C

 

[major major]

I wouldn't mind seeing him with Panarin also. Try Panarin-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand as a line and Duclair-PLD-Atkinson as a line (or something like that) and see if it works. The Duclair-PLD-Atkinson line would probably need to be on the ice with a defensive minded dmen pairing but it just might work. When I see the lines right now I see combos that can work in a single game but would likely not do well in a 7 game series after the other team makes adjustments.

I proposed that same set of lines not that long ago, for the same reason you provided. We need more of a scoring spread to keep up with the top teams. We have tried Duclair with PLD and Atkinson, and it works very well. They get oodles of chances together.

Wennberg shoots at a very low rate, so he'd have to up that if he was playing with a great passer like Panarin. I would try it to see what would happen. His goal drought is getting a bit ridiculous. He's been close to scoring seemingly every game lately so I feel like it's coming.

 

[MoeBartoli]

So , let’s say we go out and get a #2 C , then you have Jenner at#3 c, you going to play a Wennberg at the #4 C ? . You have Jenner , Dubinsky, Nash , Wennberg for the #3, and 4c , and Jenner is more effective as a center then Wennberg . That leaves Dubi, Wenny and Nash for #4 spot . That’s a lot of money for a 4th line C

I agree that would be an expensive 4th line. And right now Dubi and Nash look like 4th liners in my book (I know others will disagree). ........But, ahhh! You hit the key - if "we go out and get a 2C". Right now that doesn't show up on the radar. So I'm for keeping Wennberg unless he can get us a 2C or a goal-scoring winger (in either case as a package). And I'm just not sure I see that happening.

 

[thebus88]

Aaaaannnnd goalposts keep moving.

Explain. What goal posts?

This idea that Bob is WINNING these recent games, is not true. The team is winning the games. He is playing well, but NOT winning the games FOR the team. The team/defense has been better than him.

It is a long season. I acknowledge and accept the ups and downs of both the team and individual players.

Bob's preseason and early season issues happened. Not only do his defenders seem to want to brush this off as nothing, they also seem to ignore JUST how bad he was, half the time he was already bad. Add that to the fact that it has now been confirmed by MULTIPLE people (Seth Jones 1 of them) that there was an "issue" in the locker room regarding the contract situations. So its pretty easy to tie his early season woes to this "off ice" issue, that really only became an issue because of his early season woes. It has also been confirmed he skipped the Panarin meeting over the summer.

AND, his public comment have been, "they know my plans". OK, great, that's fine when he's stopping the puck. For MORE than half of the year this year, with the team playing more aggressive and Bob getting more of a workload, he hasn't been stopping the puck. Give me Korpisalo now, if he's gonna be here in 19/20 and beyond. The difference between the 2 isn't as significant as a lot of people want to believe, and we could add to the team in a different way.

Lets see what happens when there a couple bad games again, or at least wait January 1st comes around and he's still on the team before we anoint him the next Dominik Hasek again.

The Bus' CBJ Christmas Power Rankings:

1. Columbus Blue Jackets
2. Ryan Murray
3. Scott Harrington
4. Sergei Bobrovsky
5. Joonas Korpisalo

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