Proposal: Colorado - New Jersey

[Cousin Eddie]

It's not a bad offer, and your observations are correct - the Devils would love Zadorov, and accumulating 1st rounders is the clear objective at the deadline (whether it happens is another story).

The value is great, but I just can't trade Coleman.

 

[awegrzyn]

I would do it.

It's a wash deal in terms of value, but I'm not sure how it fits both teams.
We need Zadorov, but Vatanen is better, so is Coleman than those 2. It helps New Jersey in terms of age, size, timeline, and rebuild for sure.

Do it. Resign them all and make it work for both teams.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He’s defensively responsible and an unbelievable penalty killer. It’s not just about goals. It’s filling the desperate needs of Colorado which include the two top priorities of penalty killing and team defense. Putting guys like Coleman on the ice instead of Burakovsky in key situations such as an empty net or final minute of a period changes the dynamic immensely.

Plus he scores goals and fits the Avs high speed identity.

But his scoring capabilities make him significantly more expensive to acquire. We should be able to find someone who is defensively responsible that can penalty kill without paying a premium for the goal scoring, and that isn't a UFA after next season.

 

[devils29]

Can someone explain to me why everyone on HFboards sees Vatanen as like a throw in/meh defenseman? He’s a RHD on pace for 40 points before his “injury”and everyone treating him like a #5/6...

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Sorry but that’s a Joke. Vats can at least return a late round second easily, not that conditional crap. Also, Coleman should not be traded for anything less than a ridiculous overpayment. Yea he is 28 but some guys are late bloomers and Blake has been an elite Pk’er who can put up 20+ goals. No reason to trade him and give a team a second line winger who can play in all situations with a dirt cheap contract. The Devils suck yes, but it that doesn’t mean every player can be had for fricken peanuts.

I was told in another thread Kreider is the only rental getting a first.

 

[MartyOwns]

 

[Forge]

I think that's a yes from me as a devils fan. I'd probably rather take a flier on a low level prospect as opposed to Kamenev though. Just because of waiver issues and the like.

 

[Smitty426]

Sure but I mean you’re talking a conditional 2nd most likely.

I’ve seen plenty of posts where NJ fans have been hoping to gain more 1st rounders and I’ve also seen some fans show interest in Zadorov which is why I decided to put everything together in one.

Coleman would be the priority here for Colorado. Vatanen is just some added playoff boost.

Great doin business with you

 

[Smitty426]

Can someone explain to me why everyone on HFboards sees Vatanen as like a throw in/meh defenseman? He’s a RHD on pace for 40 points before his “injury”and everyone treating him like a #5/6...

Because our GM takes this in and assumes its true so other teams fans have a say in what happens. Silly!

 

[AslanRH]

Can we just move Cole (who is filling the RD spot) and keep Zadorov? If all else goes sideways, Zadorov as an RFA will have as much/more value during the draft and off season as he does now.

Cole may carry less value, but a guy with that playoff pedigree and an extra season on his deal can muster at least what people are throwing out for Martinez. Avs have the space to retain as well.

If Vatanan is the guy the Avs want, they have the youth and picks to get him as is.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Can someone explain to me why everyone on HFboards sees Vatanen as like a throw in/meh defenseman? He’s a RHD on pace for 40 points before his “injury”and everyone treating him like a #5/6...

He won’t get the minutes and #1PP time on a decent team. It’s not that he’s a throw in either. I believe he’ll return a 2nd which certainly isn’t a throw in. But he’ll play bottom pairing minutes on most contending teams.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Can we just move Cole (who is filling the RD spot) and keep Zadorov? If all else goes sideways, Zadorov as an RFA will have as much/more value during the draft and off season as he does now.

Cole may carry less value, but a guy with that playoff pedigree and an extra season on his deal can muster at least what people are throwing out for Martinez. Avs have the space to retain as well.

If Vatanan is the guy the Avs want, they have the youth and picks to get him as is.

As an Avs fan I would love exactly this (not necessarily trade Cole to NJ as he serves no purpose there) but with Cole’s presence in the dressing room and his decent PK’ing ability (relative to the rest of the Avs anyway) it’s just pretty easy to see he won’t be moved.

 

[AslanRH]

As an Avs fan I would love exactly this (not necessarily trade Cole to NJ as he serves no purpose there) but with Cole’s presence in the dressing room and his decent PK’ing ability (relative to the rest of the Avs anyway) it’s just pretty easy to see he won’t be moved.

Agreed. I actually don't think our defense gets changed at all before this off-season.

I think a good "hockey trade" with a team like Carolina or Florida, or even a Pittsburgh or Washington if Sakic has a replacement lined up and says he'll retain 50% are the only scenarios where Cole is moved

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I still can't see why the Avs pay all of that for a great third liner and a luxury PMD on short contracts.

Zadorov is a #4 himself. Not using him like such, but he has the swings of one and the effectiveness of one. Kamenev is under utilized but a good bottom six guy himself. Move Jost (more value) and toss him into the lineup. Ranta is an undervalued prospect we should see through. And a 1st is huge currency, we got Newhook with one last year.

How does Coleman improve on that? Vatanen would probably be gone as a UFA when we didn't pay him Faulk money and we have Timmins and Byram coming. Rather have Zadorov 1:1 anyways. Even if it takes a lot to pry Coleman away, why should the Avs pay that premium?

 

[Forge]

I still can't see why the Avs pay all of that for a great third liner and a luxury PMD on short contracts.

Zadorov is a #4 himself. Not using him like such, but he has the swings of one and the effectiveness of one. Kamenev is under utilized but a good bottom six guy himself. Move Jost (more value) and toss him into the lineup. Ranta is an undervalued prospect we should see through. And a 1st is huge currency, we got Newhook with one last year.

How does Coleman improve on that? Vatanen would probably be gone as a UFA when we didn't pay him Faulk money and we have Timmins and Byram coming. Rather have Zadorov 1:1 anyways. Even if it takes a lot to pry Coleman away, why should the Avs pay that premium?

You guys are probably going to have to unload him at some point though, right? Is there any way that you can protect Z from the expansion draft?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

You guys are probably going to have to unload him at some point though, right? Is there any way that you can protect Z from the expansion draft?

If we move him, someone else will get drafted in the expansion. Possibly even who we acquire for him. I doubt we protect Z all things considered.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I get all of that, but it's not like the Avs desperately need more scoring. We're already the highest scoring team in the league. Overpaying for a luxury that doesn't really fill a need doesn't make much sense to me.

He absolutely fills a PK need.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He absolutely fills a PK need.

I don't disagree. But, we should be able to fill the need for PK help without paying extra for goal scoring.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I don't disagree. But, we should be able to fill the need for PK help without paying extra for goal scoring.

But why not?

It’s not just the goal scoring.

As we’ve seen from Jost, not being able to keep up with the Avs pace can cause a player to not fit at all with the team.

Coleman provides the PK, but also quality two way play at ES, with the speed to boot that fits the Avs play style. He quite literally checks off multiple boxes.

I mean, unless you have other PK options, who are also good at ES, who can play at the Avs pace, and who are cheaper.

 

[devils29]

He won’t get the minutes and #1PP time on a decent team. It’s not that he’s a throw in either. I believe he’ll return a 2nd which certainly isn’t a throw in. But he’ll play bottom pairing minutes on most contending teams.

Ben Lovejoy got a 3rd+ B prospect. Vatanen is worth more than JUST a second

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

But why not?

It’s not just the goal scoring.

As we’ve seen from Jost, not being able to keep up with the Avs pace can cause a player to not fit at all with the team.

Coleman provides the PK, but also quality two way play at ES, with the speed to boot that fits the Avs play style. He quite literally checks off multiple boxes.

I mean, unless you have other PK options, who are also good at ES, who can play at the Avs pace, and who are cheaper.

I don't disagree that he'd probably be a nice addition, I just don't see a lot of sense in trading for a guy when his value is at an all-time high. I also have concerns that Coleman will price himself out of Colorado after next season. I'd much rather see if we can't address our PK needs without giving up so much in return, preferably someone who won't get stupid offers because he was on a 30 goal pace.

 

[Eggtimer]

I don’t get the argument people use that “ we have enough scoring already “
It’s regular season and goals come at a premium in the playoffs . How can you ever have “ enough “ scoring ??
If it doesn’t effect other aspects of the game like team speed , defensive reliability, etc , why would a team say “ nah we are good for goal scoring .
Coleman brings goal scoring plus defekcecand speed . I’d think he would be a good fit on any NHL team if slotted in the right spot in the lineup.
I can’t think of many better 3rd line forwards than him

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I don't disagree that he'd probably be a nice addition, I just don't see a lot of sense in trading for a guy when his value is at an all-time high. I also have concerns that Coleman will price himself out of Colorado after next season. I'd much rather see if we can't address our PK needs without giving up so much in return, preferably someone who won't get stupid offers because he was on a 30 goal pace.

I agree here. Hall was a big enough fish to waste a 1st to rent without signing. Coleman is nowhere near the same, even though I'd actually prefer him to Hall in terms of fit, and I too think he would sign elsewhere afterwards.

 

[TheRarestDangles]

It's the deal of the century.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I don't disagree that he'd probably be a nice addition, I just don't see a lot of sense in trading for a guy when his value is at an all-time high. I also have concerns that Coleman will price himself out of Colorado after next season. I'd much rather see if we can't address our PK needs without giving up so much in return, preferably someone who won't get stupid offers because he was on a 30 goal pace.

I know what you mean.

Problem is, you’re wanting to get a similar good fit but at a fraction of the price.

And what I fear, is that you start ending up in the Brassard for a 3rd type deals where you’re not here not there.

I’m not a big fan of half measures.

The Avs have a very clear Achilles heel right now in their special teams. Both the PK and PP are struggling. But the PK for me is far more worrisome.

I really don’t know what other PK players there are, that A) fit the teams identity at 5 on 5 (speed)
B) are available, C) are cheaper than Coleman, and D) are not a detriment at 5v5

Last thing I want is getting a PK specialist who’s terrible for the remainder of the game.