Player Discussion Colin White - C/RW

[Sweatred]

Me too, but it wasn't possible. IMO Stone like the others who got traded probably didn't want to go through a rebuild. Nobody wanted Ryan & I doubt there are a lot of teams after Chlapik who I also like, but is really a spare part. I think White is still young enough to be a more productive player, but what is the metric that people want. What if he becomes a terrific shutdown guy what is that worth? Most people on here fixate strictly on pts. I just think he deserves another yr to figure it out.

Id take any type of “fill in the blank” terrific out of White and be happy.

 

[bert]

Colin White’s contract is a complete non-issue. (And if anything may have helped us extend Chabot, and possibly Tkachuk)

Until 2022 he can be bought out for 1/3 his salary, and the cap penalty would be under 900K.

If he starts producing keep him, if he doesn’t, cut him loose. Does he get overpaid between now and then, sure? But not at the expense of not being able to afford anyone else.

The part that everyone overlooks and they got Chabot at an absolute bargain. Chabot at 10 white at 3 is anyone complaning? Im not. Instead its Chabot at 8 and white at 5 big deal same money.

 

[alfstheman]

I think white will improve next year. He started looking much better at the end of the season.

However if he underwhelms again next year I wouldn't be opposed to exposing him to Seattle.

 

[Tuna99]

Don’t see White as a player who contributes year in and year out as a solid top 6 on a perennial playoff team - he’s more an solid 3rd liner who can play in the top 6 as needed.

not a PP guy, but his speed and desire add to a solid top 9 and he won’t be out of place. Just won’t be the 2nd line 2 way center we hoped he’d be.

 

[Sweatred]

Colin White’s contract is a complete non-issue. (And if anything may have helped us extend Chabot, and possibly Tkachuk)

Until 2022 he can be bought out for 1/3 his salary, and the cap penalty would be under 900K.

If he starts producing keep him, if he doesn’t, cut him loose. Does he get overpaid between now and then, sure? But not at the expense of not being able to afford anyone else.

Duclair, Brown21, Brann, and Norris all agree with you. They think all 14G career high scorers and anyone who can average 10+ G/year deserve $5 million+ too. Heck, Wolanin was okay for a few weeks two years ago... let’s give him $5 too.

 

[benjiv1]

Duclair, Brown21, Brann, and Norris all agree with you. They think all 14G career high scorers and anyone who can average 10+ G/year deserve $5 million+ too. Heck, Wolanin was okay for a few weeks two years ago... let’s give him $5 too.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Reading comprehension FTW.

His contract is not yet problematic, and if it becomes so, Sens have an easy out to cut bait.

 

[playasRus]

As exciting as the new crop of rookies are, it's equally intriguing to see if White, Tkachuk, Chabot also take a step forward, stall, or regress.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Friends of HFSens,

Stop the bickering and pot-shots - report, don’t respond to crap.

Infractions will be handed out for any further moderation required in this thread.

@Sweatred please stop bringing up CW in other threads - if you have an issue with this, PM any of the mods to discuss.

Have a great day everyone!

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

As exciting as the new crop of rookies are, it's equally intriguing to see if White, Tkachuk, Chabot also take a step forward, stall, or regress.

I think the only one of real concern is Whitey. Chabot has shown pretty fantastic, ongoing development, as has Brady. White has been a lot more up and down. He needs a long and consistent period of ‘up’.

 

[Sweatred]

I think the only one of real concern is Whitey. Chabot has shown pretty fantastic, ongoing development, as has Brady. White has been a lot more up and down. He needs a long and consistent period of ‘up’.

I like to compare players based on “value” ... or performance vs contract.

I expect Brady to strongly outperform his contract, Chabot to struggle to break even or break even, and White to significantly underperform.

 

[Flamingo]

The NHL twitter feed sure loves Colin White today.

 

[Agent Zub]

The part that everyone overlooks and they got Chabot at an absolute bargain. Chabot at 10 white at 3 is anyone complaning? Im not. Instead its Chabot at 8 and white at 5 big deal same money.

true but another way to look at is that they the benefits of getting a steal of a contract on chabot were nullified by overpaying White.

anyway i like white, but awarding that contract based off of one nhl season playing with mark stone is dumb as hell

 

[bert]

true but another way to look at is that they the benefits of getting a steal of a contract on chabot were nullified by overpaying White.

anyway i like white, but awarding that contract based off of one nhl season playing with mark stone is dumb as hell

Thats really not what happened, his entire body of work was taken into context when projecting the contract. It is back loaded and he was getting paid appropriately being a top 5 rookie scorer who played at a 46 point pace in the 4 million range. The contract was based on escalation anyway it was never bad and still isnt unless he regresses.

 

[JungleBeat]

White wasn’t even that impressive playing with Stone. He can’t distribute the puck like a centre should.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

I think the hope for White at this point, is that he becomes our next "Pageau" and solidifies our 3rd line C position (with maybe slightly higher offensive numbers).

Hopefully he can chip in big goals in the playoffs when it counts (similar to how he performed on the World Junior stage).

 

[Agent Zub]

Thats really not what happened, his entire body of work was taken into context when projecting the contract. It is back loaded and he was getting paid appropriately being a top 5 rookie scorer who played at a 46 point pace in the 4 million range. The contract was based on escalation anyway it was never bad and still isnt unless he regresses.

what entire body of work? it was based off of one season stapled to mark stone, the guy who made Zack Smith a 25 goal scorer.

basically they are already paying white for close to his potential peak performance as a 45-55 point player. which he isnt yet. thats my only gripe with it.

 

[bert]

what entire body of work? it was based off of one season stapled to mark stone, the guy who made Zack Smith a 25 goal scorer.

basically they are already paying white for close to his potential peak performance as a 45-55 point player. which he isnt yet. thats my only gripe with it.

A first round pick that continued to get better and put up impressive numbers at all levels. A player that raised his game in high end competition with his peers. He had pedigree and showed progression every season since he was drafted. That body of work.

Nothing like the Zack Smith situation where his one season was an outlier to the player he projected to be and had already been established. Frankly this comparison has been destroyed over and over again throughout this thread. I dont care to go down that path again. Feels like a Sweatred circular argument coming up i dont care to take a part of and have to explain. All the answeres to your response are in this thread already.

 

[JD1]

what entire body of work? it was based off of one season stapled to mark stone, the guy who made Zack Smith a 25 goal scorer.

basically they are already paying white for close to his potential peak performance as a 45-55 point player. which he isnt yet. thats my only gripe with it.

Zack Smith made himself a 25 goal scorer. He certainly didn't have 20 back door tap ins courtesy of Mark Stone. He scored 25 by putting up a crazy shooting percentage

White had a down year that started with a training camp injury that lingered for half a season. If he doesn't have a much stronger season this coming year, you cut bait on him which is easy to do

This sentiment that 19-20 White is all he has and is all we'll ever see ranks up there with the "historically bad" noise we heard last fall. If White has a healthy season and doesn't produce more, I'll eat crow. For those that don't believe that White's 19-20 results were related to injury...what can i say...I'm sorry you weren't able to see the difference in his skating

 

[Sweatred]

A first round pick that continued to get better and put up impressive numbers at all levels. A player that raised his game in high end competition with his peers. He had pedigree and showed progression every season since he was drafted. That body of work.

Nothing like the Zack Smith situation where his one season was an outlier to the player he projected to be and had already been established. Frankly this comparison has been destroyed over and over again throughout this thread. I dont care to go down that path again. Feels like a Sweatred circular argument coming up i dont care to take a part of and have to explain. All the answeres to your response are in this thread already.

White’s “body of work” is grossly exaggerated. Formenton, Norris, Batherson, Brown, Balcers, Etc have all had better AHL seasons than White.

If he was so injured he should have rehabbed longer. He spent one game rehabbing in the AHL. Any player who “apparently” is that impacted by an injury should rest until it is recovered, especially in a meaningless season. His skating shouldn’t of impacted his poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs either.

His game is close to Chaplik’s and there is nothing wrong with that. I just don’t see the need to have him on a pedestal and insist he is a developed player.It won’t take to many $5 million mistakes to clog up our sub max cap budget.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

White’s “body of work” is grossly exaggerated. Formenton, Norris, Batherson, Brown, Balcers, Etc have all had better AHL seasons than White.

If he was so injured he should have rehabbed longer. He spent one game rehabbing in the AHL. Any player who “apparently” is that impacted by an injury should rest until it is recovered, especially in a meaningless season. His skating shouldn’t of impacted his poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs either.

His game is close to Chaplik’s and there is nothing wrong with that. I just don’t see the need to have him on a pedestal and insist he is a developed player.It won’t take to many $5 million mistakes to clog up our sub max cap budget.

You've brought this kind of incomplete analysis up before.
Same team?
Same coach?
Same number of vets in the lineup?
Same roles/deployment?
Same ice time?

You leave huge gaping holes in drawing your conclusions making them , to me, seem like nonsense.

 

[Micklebot]

If he was so injured he should have rehabbed longer. He spent one game rehabbing in the AHL. Any player who “apparently” is that impacted by an injury should rest until it is recovered, especially in a meaningless season. His skating shouldn’t of impacted his poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs either

In a perfect world, yes he should have rehabed longer, but with Anisimov being injured at the same time and athletes being highly competitive along with a culture of sucking it up and playing through it, it isn't at all surprising that he didn't.

As for his hip flexor injury not impacting his, as you put it "poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs" i would strongly disagree. These types of injuries can limite range of motion and almost all hockey skills and movements are facilitated through the hip flexor muscle groups.

 

[JD1]

In a perfect world, yes he should have rehabed longer, but with Anisimov being injured at the same time and athletes being highly competitive along with a culture of sucking it up and playing through it, it isn't at all surprising that he didn't.

As for his hip flexor injury not impacting his, as you put it "poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs" i would strongly disagree. These types of injuries can limite range of motion and almost all hockey skills and movements are facilitated through the hip flexor muscle groups.

It's beyond that....your entire ability to play and process the game is based on having 100% of your legs....take that away, even in the slightest, and everything changes. The NHL is a game of time and space and struggling thru a hip injury reduces both

Exhibit A - look at Mark Stone's reduced effectiveness after coming back from various injuries

 

[Sweatred]

You've brought this kind of incomplete analysis up before.
Same team?
Same coach?
Same number of vets in the lineup?
Same roles/deployment?
Same ice time?

You leave huge gaping holes in drawing your conclusions making them , to me, seem like nonsense.

A different coach doesn’t automatically allow you to gloss over the fact that he had a very pedestrian season, especially when statements about career elite pedigree are made. He has a career common to a late first rounders and pedestrian AHL stats.

Sorry, it’s nonsense to watch him on the ice and excuse his production in the AHL or NHL because of his coach or ice time. He had an offensive roll in the AHL. The skill simply isn’t there and to suggest it is nonsense. I certainly hope he can develop and improve to provide some value to this team.

 

[Sweatred]

In a perfect world, yes he should have rehabed longer, but with Anisimov being injured at the same time and athletes being highly competitive along with a culture of sucking it up and playing through it, it isn't at all surprising that he didn't.

As for his hip flexor injury not impacting his, as you put it "poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs" i would strongly disagree. These types of injuries can limite range of motion and almost all hockey skills and movements are facilitated through the hip flexor muscle groups.

We all watched him play. He was really bad at times. He had the Sens should have rested him for 2-4 weeks if that was really the cause. Lots of players could have come up for a few games.

 

[Sweatred]

In a perfect world, yes he should have rehabed longer, but with Anisimov being injured at the same time and athletes being highly competitive along with a culture of sucking it up and playing through it, it isn't at all surprising that he didn't.

As for his hip flexor injury not impacting his, as you put it "poor puck protection, poor shooting, poor puck distribution, lack of contact, and brutal faceoffs" i would strongly disagree. These types of injuries can limite range of motion and almost all hockey skills and movements are facilitated through the hip flexor muscle groups.

Norris came up and played well for 3 games ? It easily could have been two weeks. Brown could have played too or one of the AHL wingers.

When your first round picks who you just extended plays like crap because of an injury you heal him to save him physically and mentally. I doubt the injury was much of a concern after late fall.