Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Rangers - What happened to the Rangers?

[ss53mech]

Everyone has hit the +'s pretty well so I'll do my thing and be all doom and gloom.

-Adams' footspeed
-Adams' positioning
------------(x foarevar!) Adams' turnovers

I don't have the stats to back any of this up but the eye test is telling me that he is responsible for around 50-60% of the turnovers in the defensive zone that directly result in extended zone time for the opposition. Every time I do a snapshot of the game in my head after it's over that's the only thing I can remember him for, simply mismanaging the puck over and over again. That's day one defense stuff, don't flat out GIVE the other team possesion in your zone. Yet the defensive stalwart continues just this trend. Can't we just take him out back and shoot him or something?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I can get on board with that, although I'm still concerned with what the other team does tactically and how, if at all, the Pens adjust. I do think that's a big factor.

To me, it's the main factor along with having confidence in what you're doing and not freak out if they score a goal or have a extended shift in their end. No panic. They've been there before, so having guys like that are a key. They almost had the formula last year, and I think they're in one of those "I don't want to repeat that last playoff exit again" type of disposition. Health seems to be getting in the way but luckily it still early enough to overcome it. We know Shero will make a move now for sure with Dupuis being down and it's just a matter of timing and what they see of whom does get back. (Bennett/Megna)

Depth is also part of the winning in the post season. They have it on defense and the forward group is still an open book.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Everyone has hit the +'s pretty well so I'll do my thing and be all doom and gloom.

-Adams' footspeed
-Adams' positioning
------------(x foarevar!) Adams' turnovers

I don't have the stats to back any of this up but the eye test is telling me that he is responsible for around 50-60% of the turnovers in the defensive zone that directly result in extended zone time for the opposition. Every time I do a snapshot of the game in my head after it's over that's the only thing I can remember him for, simply mismanaging the puck over and over again. That's day one defense stuff, don't flat out GIVE the other team possesion in your zone. Yet the defensive stalwart continues just this trend. Can't we just take him out back and shoot him or something?

I mean he is always pretty cringe worthy and awful on the ice every day, but tonight was an exceptional example of his suckitude tonight!

 

[Michael8771*]

I get the impression that the vast majority of you aren't thrilled with Craig Adams play.

 

[BurghThang]

True, but I also think you need to take into consideration that this is the regular season, come playoff time this "system" will be totally exposed and torn to shreds just like it has been for the last 4-5 years in the playoffs.

I don't think you can overlook that fact.

Fact?

We didn't lose to Boston because of our defense...we lost due to scoring 2 goals in 4 games

 

[Michael8771*]

Fact?

We didn't lose to Boston because of our defense...we lost due to scoring 2 goals in 4 games

This is 100% true. Defense wasn't the problem in that series.

Also, with Martin joining the coaches, the ''system'' has been modified. my biggest concern is quality depth upfront.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

++++

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Fact?

We didn't lose to Boston because of our defense...we lost due to scoring 2 goals in 4 games

I'm not just talking about the defensive side of the puck, I am talking about ALL areas of Bylsma's "coaching" and player management and usage.

 

[Captain Hook]

I get the impression that the vast majority of you aren't thrilled with Craig Adams play.

Adams really is one of a kind. I tried to find some comps when looking over other teams rosters but it's pretty much impossible to find another forward in the league that age (36) with that marginal amount of talent that's still around. Teams usually move on from marginal players like Adams by the time they get to their mid to late 30's. The Pens just seem to get too attached to certain guys and can't let go.

 

[Michael8771*]

Adams really is one of a kind. I tried to find some comps when looking over other teams rosters but it's pretty much impossible to find another forward in the league that age (36) with that marginal amount of talent that's still around. Teams usually move on from marginal players like Adams by the time they get to their mid to late 30's. The Pens just seem to get too attached to certain guys and can't let go.

Craig Adams is a good PKer, beyond that he doesn't offer much. Yeah he's somewhat physical and yeah he blocks shots but offensively there's not much to his game. I know that, you know that. But again, his salary is small. This truly is a case of getting what you pay for. And to be honest, his PKing prowess alone IMO pays his salary. There's a cap, he's cheap, he's reliable as a defensive forward. I don't see reasons to hate. If you hate anything, hate the salary cap system I guess.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Adams really is one of a kind. I tried to find some comps when looking over other teams rosters but it's pretty much impossible to find another forward in the league that age (36) with that marginal amount of talent that's still around. Teams usually move on from marginal players like Adams by the time they get to their mid to late 30's. The Pens just seem to get too attached to certain guys and can't let go.

At one point he fell behind Lundqvist and couldn't get up. It was stellar. Adams had a really good game of getting great scoring chances and failing comically, it happens a lot.

Players like Adams get phased out for younger, better, tougher, faster, whatever players. Except if they're Craig Adams, who is also incredibly durable. Which you'd think would be a problem with age, but it's not. The only thing I can see is that he PK's, but there are younger/better/tougher/faster players that can do it, and he's so bad at ES. Adams is like Bylsma's child at this point, they can't be separated and Bylsma thinks everything Adams does is way more impressive than it really is.

I'm not sure how Adams even managed to last as long as he did before Bylsma saw himself in him.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't even know what the Rangers were trying to do. Hank looked like playoff Fleury tonight.

The biggest problem I see with the Rangers is poor identity and an AWFUL standing around d-zone. I just don't even recognize that team at all.

But that was the point that I was making. Everyone knows that Lundqvist is, and remains, a great goalie. But play like a spaz in front of him, like the Pens would do in front of Fleury, and he looks as bad. I am not saying that Fleury is anything close to Lundqvist. But we need to make a call on him this offseason, and take into account the team's play in front of him all these years. The Pens, to their credit, and maybe because of Martin, maybe because of the kids needing to be more careful being kids, but they have been far more responsible more often getting the puck out of the zone. They still do infuriating things at times, but I do not an improvement by degree.

Watching NY tonight though brought back horrible Pens' memories of stretch passes gone bad, it was so evocative of that. I could not be the only one who saw in his head blown playoffs past watching the Rangers struggle with the same thing tonight.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

However much money Kunitz paid to borrow Stamkos' hands, I hope he's paid up until at least the end of the playoffs. I don't think it's any surprise that Crosby's assist totals are actually going up now that his great passes are actually being buried.

Also, if Sid's not the Hart winner this year, they should just do away with the award because it will have lost all meaning.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

However much money Kunitz paid to borrow Stamkos' hands, I hope he's paid up until at least the end of the playoffs. I don't think it's any surprise that Crosby's assist totals are actually going up now that his great passes are actually being buried.

Also, if Sid's not the Hart winner this year, they should just do away with the award because it will have lost all meaning.

Get used to the idea, because I actually expect it to happen. Can you name me a single city that has a decent hockey writer? Can you count on one hand a list of good hockey writers and not have fingers left over?

They took the voting for stars away from Philly writer Frank Seravalli for giving Emery the third star for mugging Hotlby in a game where he gave up 7 goals in a 7-0 shutout. And that idiot still gets to vote for the Hart. Crosby could outscore everyone by 20, outgoal everyone by 10, cure cancer, make lasting peace between the Arabs and Israelis and make Obamacare work, and what are the chances that Seravalli votes Crosby for the Hart?

The trouble is that Seravalli is not the rare exception but typical. And that is who votes.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

But that was the point that I was making. Everyone knows that Lundqvist is, and remains, a great goalie. But play like a spaz in front of him, like the Pens would do in front of Fleury, and he looks as bad. I am not saying that Fleury is anything close to Lundqvist. But we need to make a call on him this offseason, and take into account the team's play in front of him all these years. The Pens, to their credit, and maybe because of Martin, maybe because of the kids needing to be more careful being kids, but they have been far more responsible more often getting the puck out of the zone. They still do infuriating things at times, but I do not an improvement by degree.

Watching NY tonight though brought back horrible Pens' memories of stretch passes gone bad, it was so evocative of that. I could not be the only one who saw in his head blown playoffs past watching the Rangers struggle with the same thing tonight.

One of the best things, that I do believe is helping our d-play well (besides JM),and besides the obvious that they are a pretty skilled blue line, is the competition from the younger kids.

There is a lot less complacency when you have guys like Maatta, Despres, and Bort pushing others to stay in the lineup.

The sense of no one is really handed a roster spot on the backend is a good thing.

I only wish we had a coach who would do a similar thing with the forwards (when healthy) this team needs and has been needing youth and competition up and down the roster for years now.

But we are stuck with Byslma...

 

[Cardboard Orpik]

Maatta wasn't perfect but he wasn't that bad either. So much angst in here over what's probably nothing.

We broke Dorsett. Out 4-6 weeks with a broken fibula.

Sad to see. I actually like him.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I don't know if anyone watched the episode of Inside Penguins Hockey that was on after the game, but there was a part about Adams that made me laugh.

They were discussing who goes the hardest in practice. The three names that came up were Engelland, Adams, and Crosby.

Adams said something along the lines of "When I first came into the league, my first coach told me that I wasn't going to be an everyday player and I would be scratched sometimes. He said that when you get scratched, you're practices are your games. I guess that's stuck with me even now."

I just appreciated the irony that a young Craig Adams that had more energy and speed was scratched frequently but an old Craig Adams is a staple.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

However much money Kunitz paid to borrow Stamkos' hands, I hope he's paid up until at least the end of the playoffs. I don't think it's any surprise that Crosby's assist totals are actually going up now that his great passes are actually being buried.

Also, if Sid's not the Hart winner this year, they should just do away with the award because it will have lost all meaning.

He's just led the league in scoring for the second month and finished 2nd again for player of the month; had more goals than Kane too. It's almost like there's a hipster in charge of giving out awards - the cool, niche nhl won't pick the obvious choice.

The same thing happening to Malkin as well.

 

[jmelm]

Hey, IcedCapp may appreciate this:

+ Simon Despres: had his best game of his NHL career tonight.

I know you think I'm negative about Simon, but as I've said, I'm not. I just call it as I see it. This was probably his most mistake-free, solid, confident and complete game he's played in the NHL up until this point.

 

[#66]

I'm in NJ so I get the MSG feed tonight. It came out that Bylsma said to Pyatt that its OK to make mistake and to try things. That's an attitude the Pens have lived and died with for years.

Maybe you say that to Straka, Lang and Kovy but Pyatt???

Then I watched Adams make a back hand sauce pass to the point and no one was there. Once again... Adams... backhand sauce pass... to the point....

I'm not even an Adams hater but c'mon.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

I'm in NJ so I get the MSG feed tonight. It came out that Bylsma said to Pyatt that its OK to make mistake and to try things. That's an attitude the Pens have lived and died with for years.

Maybe you say that to Straka, Lang and Kovy but Pyatt???

Then I watched Adams make a back hand sauce pass to the point and no one was there. Once again... Adams... backhand sauce pass... to the point....

I'm not even an Adams hater but c'mon.

And yet he doesn't miss one second of ice time... BB does something like that he is banished to wheeling for 19 months...

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I don't know if anyone watched the episode of Inside Penguins Hockey that was on after the game, but there was a part about Adams that made me laugh.

They were discussing who goes the hardest in practice. The three names that came up were Engelland, Adams, and Crosby.

Adams said something along the lines of "When I first came into the league, my first coach told me that I wasn't going to be an everyday player and I would be scratched sometimes. He said that when you get scratched, you're practices are your games. I guess that's stuck with me even now."

I just appreciated the irony that a young Craig Adams that had more energy and speed was scratched frequently but an old Craig Adams is a staple.

There's some workout thing with the Pens (In the Room preview?) where they're talking about the need to workout in the season and around games to endure the season. They show Adams and all I could think about was how bad he would be without that.

 

[Uncle Machete]

Can't imagine the ****storm I'll start by saying this; Dan Bylsma should be seriously considered for the Jack Adams Award if he keeps the team winning. It's insane that a team with so many man-games lost and so many bad players has the most wins in the league.

I'll see myself out.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Can't imagine the ****storm I'll start by saying this; Dan Bylsma should be seriously considered for the Jack Adams Award if he keeps the team winning. It's insane that a team with so many man-games lost and so many bad players has the most wins in the league.

I'll see myself out.

Can you take Bylsma with you???

 

[Michael8771*]

Can't imagine the ****storm I'll start by saying this; Dan Bylsma should be seriously considered for the Jack Adams Award if he keeps the team winning. It's insane that a team with so many man-games lost and so many bad players has the most wins in the league.

I'll see myself out.

He certainly should be considered for it. I'm not a huge fan of his by any means but his REGULAR SEASON NUMBERS are impressive. And since it's an award for the Regular Season it's not surprising he'd be among the favorites.