Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Habs - Morrow is awesome

[IcedCapp]

So let me get this straight: Playing for the Dallas Stars, an organization where they've let it be known to you that you are being phased out, who have been out of the playoffs many of the past years, is the same as playing for a young team, with a player's coach, filled with enthusiasm, who can win it all this year, with the 2 best players in the world.

Yea, totally smart to use that Star's sample size as an accurate portrayal.

You were all over that trade thread, you judged the trade as bad, and I don't have to quote from it to prove it. No reason to jump on people here who are excited by the way Morrow is playing simply because you didn't think he'd be the way he is right now.

The jury is still out, of course, because that is reasonable-I just find it very hypocritical to judge people on sample size when you made your decision before any games were played.

I've already said I was against the trade and that I'm pleasantly surprised by the results so far... I don't hide from any of my opinions, and I certainly haven't done some weird about-face and attempted to hide my opinion on the matter.

You seem to be inventing what I'm saying, so let me be crystal clear:

I'm not jumping on anyone. I am ecstatic with Morrow so far. But people who are judging the trade after 10 games are as guilty of doing whatever it is they thought people were doing when they judged Morrow after the first half of the season.

Also, I don't understand the last sentence of your post at all. I made my judgment after 20-30 games. Games were played. I saw him play games. The trade wasn't made in the off-season. The trade was made after an appreciable number of games.

 

[JTG]

Doubt it:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=666106&navid=nhl:topheads

I think Dupuis will do whatever he has to do to help the team win a Cup. If that's him on the 3rd line, I think he'd graciously take that spot and go to work.

 

[IcedCapp]

I was pretty upfront that I wanted Morrow, then Shero got him and moved my favorite prospect. I was sitting in the car waiting for my wife when I read about the trade and wanted to smash my iPhone off the dashboard.

I thought to myself, "careful what you wish for stupid". I wanted Morrow on this team, so I couldn't be a rubber necker and blast the trade. It stung that J. Morrow got moved, but I decided to hold my tongue and be patient.

I think people are jumping the gun though. I've supported Morrow being a guy who can really help in the playoffs, but lets wait and see him do it first.

People forget now that the legend of Roberts has grown, but tons of posters were sick of how slow he looked in that second year. He was hurt and scratched a lot if I remember correctly. I recall MT scratching him in the playoffs as well.

I'm hoping we get all that is left in Morrow's tank this Spring, but Shero gave up a good prospect for him and it has a possibility of stinging down the line unless Morrow holds the cup up this Spring.

Yea, I'm cautiously optimistic right now. For all the grief I give him, Bylsma has done a good job of managing his minutes and whatnot. That's going to be the key. Keeping him on for efficient minutes. When Sid, Geno, and Neal are back, it'll be easier to double shift and give him a rest, etc...

And, if the Pens have the #1 seed locked up, I wouldn't mind giving Morrow and maybe Iggy some time off next week, let some of the younger kids get some time and make sure those guys are fresh for the start of the playoffs.

Either way, I hate losing Joe Morrow, but this version of Brenden Morrow is certainly going to be a major factor in winning the cup, which matters more than any prospects or draft picks. (And, for the record, I wanted Morrow more than I wanted Clowe, so there's that)

 

[Stars]

So let me get this straight: Playing for the Dallas Stars, an organization where they've let it be known to you that you are being phased out, who have been out of the playoffs many of the past years, is the same as playing for a young team, with a player's coach, filled with enthusiasm, who can win it all this year, with the 2 best players in the world.

Yea, totally smart to use that Star's sample size as an accurate portrayal.

You were all over that trade thread, you judged the trade as bad, and I don't have to quote from it to prove it. No reason to jump on people here who are excited by the way Morrow is playing simply because you didn't think he'd be the way he is right now.

The jury is still out, of course, because that is reasonable-I just find it very hypocritical to judge people on sample size when you made your decision before any games were played.

I agree with you PantherDigest. I was surprised that quite a few people were not giving Morrow a chance to play a role that he couldn't in Dallas.
It's some strange carry over of hate for former Stars players.
Some guys don't come on this site until the Pens lose, then claim that since they live in Dallas or know people from there they become experts. The Toronto Fan Disease, no cure they say.

 

[nTsplnk*]

Yea, I'm cautiously optimistic right now. For all the grief I give him, Bylsma has done a good job of managing his minutes and whatnot. That's going to be the key. Keeping him on for efficient minutes. When Sid, Geno, and Neal are back, it'll be easier to double shift and give him a rest, etc...

And, if the Pens have the #1 seed locked up, I wouldn't mind giving Morrow and maybe Iggy some time off next week, let some of the younger kids get some time and make sure those guys are fresh for the start of the playoffs.

Either way, I hate losing Joe Morrow, but this version of Brenden Morrow is certainly going to be a major factor in winning the cup, which matters more than any prospects or draft picks. (And, for the record, I wanted Morrow more than I wanted Clowe, so there's that)

I can agree with this

 

[cheesedanish87]

I said after the Morrow trade in the thread that anytime you have 2 good organizations and 2 good Gm's like Shero and Chiareli offering top prospects it tells you all you need to know about Brenden Morrow, Those Gm's aren't gonna miss very often.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Yea, I'm cautiously optimistic right now. For all the grief I give him, Bylsma has done a good job of managing his minutes and whatnot. That's going to be the key. Keeping him on for efficient minutes. When Sid, Geno, and Neal are back, it'll be easier to double shift and give him a rest, etc...

And, if the Pens have the #1 seed locked up, I wouldn't mind giving Morrow and maybe Iggy some time off next week, let some of the younger kids get some time and make sure those guys are fresh for the start of the playoffs.

Either way, I hate losing Joe Morrow, but this version of Brenden Morrow is certainly going to be a major factor in winning the cup, which matters more than any prospects or draft picks. (And, for the record, I wanted Morrow more than I wanted Clowe, so there's that)

So, give Morrow and Iggy time off just when Crosby and Malkin get back in the lineup? Doesn't seem exactly the smartest of moves.

 

[nTsplnk*]

I've already said I was against the trade and that I'm pleasantly surprised by the results so far... I don't hide from any of my opinions, and I certainly haven't done some weird about-face and attempted to hide my opinion on the matter.

You seem to be inventing what I'm saying, so let me be crystal clear:

I'm not jumping on anyone. I am ecstatic with Morrow so far. But people who are judging the trade after 10 games are as guilty of doing whatever it is they thought people were doing when they judged Morrow after the first half of the season.

Also, I don't understand the last sentence of your post at all. I made my judgment after 20-30 games. Games were played. I saw him play games. The trade wasn't made in the off-season. The trade was made after an appreciable number of games.

Without a doubt games were played-in a completely different scenario-you miscalculated because you compared Morrow playing for a much weaker team to him playing on a very good team. You looked at a bad situation for a player and made a judgement without thinking of the changes to that players environment that would be conducive to him performing well here.

I mean I don't see how anyone can not see the difference in the environment he was in. He wasn't going to resign in Dallas-they didn't want him and he played like it. Therefore that sample size isn't an accurate gauge of what he can bring. The sample size was tarnished by outside factors.

 

[IcedCapp]

So, give Morrow and Iggy time off just when Crosby and Malkin get back in the lineup? Doesn't seem exactly the smartest of moves.

I agree with regards to Iggy, but not with Morrow, who is likely not going to see time with either of those players. I also think Morrow's game is a bit more "plug-n-play." It's not flashy and it's not going to change depending on which line he is on. He's going to play his game regardless, and so I don't think there's a lot of worry about chemistry or rust issues if he gets 2 games off. I really could be wrong about this, though. I do think Iggy probably needs to play for chemistry purposes, especially if Geno and Neal aren't back soon (But I expect Geno to play tomorrow based on today's practice)

Without a doubt games were played-in a completely different scenario-you miscalculated because you compared Morrow playing for a much weaker team to him playing on a very good team. You looked at a bad situation for a player and made a judgement without thinking of the changes to that players environment that would be conducive to him performing well here.

I mean I don't see how anyone can not see the difference in the environment he was in. He wasn't going to resign in Dallas-they didn't want him and he played like it. Therefore that sample size isn't an accurate gauge of what he can bring. The sample size was tarnished by outside factors.

It wasn't a miscalculation. I wasn't noticing some bad chemistry or anything. This was the Captain of the team, he was slow, wasn't winning battles, and wasn't producing offensively. #2 is likely a product of #1 (not quick enough to into the dirty areas to compete) and #3 - which was the least concerning aspect - was likely a result of surrounding talent and usage.

That he's turned it around to this degree is surprising to me. It's not surprising to others. I understand that. But I think most people would agree that there is a very good chance that this isn't the "real" Morrow, but instead a guy playing on adrenaline and emotions and, as Jiggy put it, emptying the tank in an effort to both win a Cup and also earn a new contract next year. And if he can maintain that for the next 3 months, more power to him.

 

[nTsplnk*]

It wasn't a miscalculation. I wasn't noticing some bad chemistry or anything. This was the Captain of the team, he was slow, wasn't winning battles, and wasn't producing offensively. #2 is likely a product of #1 (not quick enough to into the dirty areas to compete) and #3 - which was the least concerning aspect - was likely a result of surrounding talent and usage.

That he's turned it around to this degree is surprising to me. It's not surprising to others. I understand that. But I think most people would agree that there is a very good chance that this isn't the "real" Morrow, but instead a guy playing on adrenaline and emotions and, as Jiggy put it, emptying the tank in an effort to both win a Cup and also earn a new contract next year. And if he can maintain that for the next 3 months, more power to him.

He was the "C" but it was obvious that the leadership was changing. The team was moving on-they weren't offering to resign him. It's obvious his captaincy was almost out of respect at that point. He was slow and he was losing battles because his time was done there and he knew it. He's old, no one doubts he's slowed down, but he has that character and enough juice to show he can still play hard. Morrow was on the fourth line a lot in Dallas-he never really got many great chances to be in the top9 because the team was moving on from him. How would you feel if you had sacrificed your body for years for a team that basically said "thanks, but no thanks"?

I really don't see how you couldn't recognize the fact that a change in scenery could possibly benefit him greatly for a short length of time. To have a team as good as the Pens say "we think you can contribute, we want you on this team" it has to be energizing. He's just a Bylsma type player too.

I genuinely think Morrow's play in Dallas wasn't just him slowing down. That was part of it-but the environment he was in was toxic.

 

[madinsomniac]

So much goes into what makes a guy successful, the system, the talent around them, their talent, how they are used... Its not rare to see a guy go from being successful in one situation to worthless in another, or vice versa. Give a winger quality centers and defensemen and dont ask them to do too much out of their comfort zone and sometimes you see a guy have a resurgence. I dont think it too unbelievable that a guy like Morrow, who is less of a speed/parimeter player than many of our wingers, has found a real nitch that he can exploit on this team.

 

[Pancakes]

So I'm not sure if this was commented on or not but that Murray goal was a result of a Jarome Iginla face off win. That prompted me to look faceoffs stats up and it turns out Iginla has taken quite a few this year. Not only that, but he's winning them at a 50% clip too.

Now I'm not saying move Iginla to center or anything crazy like that but faceoffs are as an aspect of his game I didn't realize he had. That's pretty cool that you can put him in the right dot and have him win some draws for you. That would be especially helpful on the powerplay IMO where all our centers are lefties. You can have Iggy take some of those right dot draws there if Sid or Geno are struggling to win them on that side.

 

[Random Oracle]

So I'm not sure if this was commented on or not but that Murray goal was a result of a Jarome Iginla face off win. That prompted me to look faceoffs stats up and it turns out Iginla has taken quite a few this year. Not only that, but he's winning them at a 50% clip too.

Now I'm not saying move Iginla to center or anything crazy like that but faceoffs are as an aspect of his game I didn't realize he had. That's pretty cool that you can put him in the right dot and have him win some draws for you. That would be especially helpful on the powerplay IMO where all our centers are lefties. You can have Iggy take some of those right dot draws there if Sid or Geno are struggling to win them on that side.

Yeah, I remember some Calgary fans commenting on this after the trade. It's definitely a nice thing to have, perhaps especially on the PP or when Iggy's center has been thrown out.

 

[Darth Vitale]

might be some Ottawa shenanigans

Truth.

EVERY team the Pens play now are busting out the shennanigans. Carolina did, Tampa did, Florida did, and now the Habs.

From now on every team they play will be roughing them up...

More truth.

Jay Caufield wants to beat the **** outta Subban

Maybe he can club him with the Tunch-a-strator. Or his immovable haircut.

Does Bylsma have the balls to take Bennett out of the lineup going forward? I mean he can't, right?... Right...

RIGHT?

He can and he will. Expect it. Beauner will not be given big ice time unless injuries force it. And he'll have some press box games when everyone is healthy. He's a rookie and they're going to play him like one. Simple as that. With this amount of depth and experience it's naive to think otherwis, although I wouldn't have a problem with 15 minutes a game the rest of the way. He's been that good. Accept it now and you will have less Beauner-rage when he is out.

Any chance Juice left because his wife is going into labor?

I am pretty sure she delievered her third child in the last month yesterday. Checking Twitter for verification. Them Finns are fer-tile!

If this is the way Morrow is going to play from here on out, he is who I want on Malkin's left wing.

Full agreement. We're in it.

Imagine going back to last April after being eliminated and being told that one year later the Pens would have six goals in a game scored by Brandon Sutter, Brenden Morrow, Jarome Iginla and Douglas Murray.

Not bad, Mr. Shero. Not bad.

But dude we could've had SEMIN for $7M! However it's perhaps a blessing (non-sarcastically) that we don't because the Beauner and Semin jokes would be unbearable. Imagine if they played on the same line. I'm pretty sure the mods would be forced to delete 40% of all GDT posts in that instance.

+Dan Bylsma: For all the flack he gets around here, I haven't heard anyone say "Good call by DB on putting Dupuis at Center! Who would've thunk it?!"

My mind: still blown

I absolutely forgot Cal O'Reilly even existed. I really had to think for a minute about who you guys were talking about.

It's easy to forget when he's mostly played like **** since his big drama-queen hold-out.

 

[The Old Master]

eating crow now, and loving his game, but going to wait to see if this continues. He was horrible in Dallas. He didn't bring anything near this level. i'm loving it, so so much, but cautious optimism right now.

all we need to do is find a way to give him 3-4 days off in between games.

 

[Ray Shero*]

The Bill Guerin effect. lovable old guy finding enough gas for a run and is liked enough he comes back and ruins it

This.

 

[Ray Shero*]

I didn't post when it happened but I was content when we got Morrow, of course I hadn't seen that much of Joe Morrow so I hadn't known what we actually sacrificed, but I'm still fine with the trade.

 

[IcedCapp]

I didn't post when it happened but I was content when we got Morrow, of course I hadn't seen that much of Joe Morrow so I hadn't known what we actually sacrificed, but I'm still fine with the trade.

You hadn't seen one of the top prospects in your organization play? Jesus, stop golfing and do some work, you bum.