Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Caps - The Single Hat

[Le Magnifique 66]

Talking about it in the other thread

Here is the link anyways

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415222

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

I was pretty hard on the team this past week, but the team played much better hockey the past two games. I still our lack of size up front will be a long term issues this season, but I would like to give the current roster credit for playing better.

For me the best turn around has been with the D. We have been bigger meaner hungrier and all around seemed to have some identity. Martin is playing MUCH better hockey this year.

I like Boychuk so far. He seems to be able to keep up with Geno and Neal from a mental, physical, and skill perspective. I HOPE UPON HOPE DB LETS THIS BE FOR A FEW GAMES. See if chemistry builds.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Merging. Because the Koon wants it that way.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

I was pretty hard on the team this past week, but the team played much better hockey the past two games. I still our lack of size up front will be a long term issues this season, but I would like to give the current roster credit for playing better.

For me the best turn around has been with the D. We have been bigger meaner hungrier and all around seemed to have some identity. Martin is playing MUCH better hockey this year.

I like Boychuk so far. He seems to be able to keep up with Geno and Neal from a mental, physical, and skill perspective. I HOPE UPON HOPE DB LETS THIS BE FOR A FEW GAMES. See if chemistry builds.

I like Boychuk, but one thing he needs to work on is that it seems like by nature, he wants to go to the exact same place that Malkin wants to. Malkin and Neal are going to have to start letting him know where they want him to be.

 

[#66]

The only thing that bothers me about Kunitz is that he doesn't torpedo players on the forecheck anymore.

That might be more "The New NHL" and less Kunitz. He tried applying that heavy forechcek down and got called for 2 BS PIMS.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The only thing that bothers me about Kunitz is that he doesn't torpedo players on the forecheck anymore.

he's getting hurt less too. I don't think its a coincidence. He's getting older and I don't think he can hold up to that kind of play all season.

 

[Captain Hook]

Kunitz did torpedo two guys on the forecheck a few games ago and promptly got sent to the box both times. The game is changing for better or worse.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Kunitz did torpedo two guys on the forecheck a few games ago and promptly got sent to the box both times. The game is changing for better or worse.

also this

 

[od71]

To likely no one's surprise, Kunitz was awarded a 4th goal from the Capitals game. The NHL determined the puck deflected off his stick from the Martin shot on the first goal. Kunitz is the first Penguin since Jagr to have a four goal game - all the way back in October of 2000 against the Rangers.

Yeah. It was not accidental goal. Kunitz was determined to do that. Not easy to execute it. He has already scored a lot of similar goals by deflection off his stick. I think he is a best Pens player in front of the net.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But you guys are talking about a small 5-10% that screams every time we win or lose. Most of the discussion is actually even-tempered.

That 5-10% started getting contagious to otherwise uniformly excellent posters, haha.

The irony is a few people calling out the people who called out Kunitz, are the people who wanted Martin gone because "he was a bad player who makes bad plays". I know who they are, but I won't call them out.

I find it a little funny, but if this board wasn't so bi-polar it wouldn't be any fun.

I definitely fall into that category. Martin has played some great hockey so far this year and is showing his detractors wrong.

For the record though, if we had dealt Martin and retained Strait in the off-season, I wouldn't regret it.

I don't know... I think we take some things Letang does for granted. I actually don't see him as an offensive minded d-man. I see him for an unreal defenseman who can quickly transition any play into offense. Big difference.

Also there are things with his speed that goes unnoticed. The other day he broke up a 3-on-1 and nobody said a thing. Any of our defenders would have backed away but Tangers out-rushed everyone. He was just faster. He's also physical and plays with passion.

I think he's a tremendous talent and we'd be in a huge hole w/o him.

Absolutely. When Letang is out of the line-up, we look very out of sorts.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

The biggest difference between 2013 Martin and 2012 Martin, IMO, is that the puck isn't jumping up over his stick at the blue line all the time like it had been.

 

[eXile59]

The only thing that bothers me about Kunitz is that he doesn't torpedo players on the forecheck anymore.

Did you see the first game of the season? He got called twice on as clean of a hit as there is on the fore check. It's not him it's the league.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I was curious about the turn out of Pens fans at the game yesterday, so I went to the Pensblog for the first time in god knows how long. They usually get some good pictures from people at the game, and then I scroll down and see this gem:

Oof. Definite minus.

 

[PensFan68]

I was pretty hard on the team this past week, but the team played much better hockey the past two games. I still our lack of size up front will be a long term issues this season, but I would like to give the current roster credit for playing better.

For me the best turn around has been with the D. We have been bigger meaner hungrier and all around seemed to have some identity. Martin is playing MUCH better hockey this year.

I like Boychuk so far. He seems to be able to keep up with Geno and Neal from a mental, physical, and skill perspective. I HOPE UPON HOPE DB LETS THIS BE FOR A FEW GAMES. See if chemistry builds.

I agree that I've been tough on them, but they have looked better. I too am loving the D. Martin has really stepped his game up, and Orpik is playing better than last year too. I still think we NEED a big (preferably physical) defensive dman, but the D corps is looking good. Hope this continues.

I'm still not too happy with DB. I'd like DJ (especially) to get a true at least 5 game try out in the top 6. I'd also like ET to get more than a game or two. While neither may end up doing anything in this league, I think they deserve the chance.

I also didn't like seeing Depres/Bortuzo getting 11 mintues. I don't know the minutes breakdown on it, but I would've liked to see them get quite a bit of time up 3 in the 3rd. I'm sure if we would've let up some goals people would've been mad, but we need to get these young d-men minutes when it's no crucial (per se).

 

[jmelm]

I'm still not too happy with DB. I'd like DJ (especially) to get a true at least 5 game try out in the top 6. I'd also like ET to get more than a game or two. While neither may end up doing anything in this league, I think they deserve the chance.

I think DJ will get his chance and ultimately will stick in the line-up, just like how Bortuzzo eventually got his chance, and I don't think Bort is going anywhere any time soon.

I think we had to sacrifice DJ for a couple of games to get Boychuk in for a look, so we can make a decision on Boychuk versus Tangradi. We can only keep 2 of 3 of Jeffrey/Boychuk/Tangradi, and we have to make a decision before Nisky returns. So if Boychuk sticks, expect to see Tangradi waived/traded and Jeffrey back in the line-up soon.

I also didn't like seeing Depres/Bortuzo getting 11 mintues. I don't know the minutes breakdown on it, but I would've liked to see them get quite a bit of time up 3 in the 3rd. I'm sure if we would've let up some goals people would've been mad, but we need to get these young d-men minutes when it's no crucial (per se).

Well, Despres' ice-time was slashed because he had a poor game, and was benched and demoted. As for Bortuzzo's ice time: I think this is simply a case of bringin the guy in a bit slowly. It was only his 3rd game this season after sitting out since the start of the year, and he hasn't played a lot in the NHL overall. I'm sure that we'll see Bort's ice-time steadily increase as he gets acclimated to the NHL and new teammates.

 

[PensFan68]

I think DJ will get his chance and ultimately will stick in the line-up, just like how Bortuzzo eventually got his chance, and I don't think Bort is going anywhere any time soon.

Well, Despres' ice-time was slashed because he had a poor game, and was benched and demoted. As for Bortuzzo's ice time: I think this is simply a case of bringin the guy in a bit slowly. It was only his 3rd game this season after sitting out since the start of the year, and he hasn't played a lot in the NHL overall. I'm sure that we'll see Bort's ice-time steadily increase as he gets acclimated to the NHL and new teammates.

Hope DJ does get his chance. I've felt for the last 2 years that he could be a good contributor in the top 6. He may be a fringe 2nd/strong 3rd liner, but I think he could stay on the 2nd line and play well.


Poor game or not, IMO, you need to let young guys play in that situation. Guess that's why I'm not coach though. Up in the game in the third, Depres/Burtuzzo should've been out there like the #1 tandem to get them as much expericence as they can.

 

[jmelm]

Hope DJ does get his chance. I've felt for the last 2 years that he could be a good contributor in the top 6. He may be a fringe 2nd/strong 3rd liner, but I think he could stay on the 2nd line and play well.


Poor game or not, IMO, you need to let young guys play in that situation. Guess that's why I'm not coach though. Up in the game in the third, Depres/Burtuzzo should've been out there like the #1 tandem to get them as much expericence as they can.

It has been said that one of the only currencies a coach has over a player is ice-time. I have no problem benching a player, especially a young one, for them to learn and play better for it.

As for not giving them more ice-time, you've got to remember a couple of things:

1) This team has had problems in the past not playing a full 60 minutes and/or taking their foot off the gas. I think it was really important to establish some confidence of just how good they could be when they play their full game for, well, the full game.

2) It's very possible that Despres and Bortuzzo have not played a lot together ever before, and certainly not at all at the NHL level. We may have had a healthy lead, but WSH is still a dangerous team, and you've got to wean those guys in, especially if they don't have that familiarity. If DB wants to pair them up, let them at least practice together and get some games in for a while before you start giving them too much responsibility. Even then, I don't think it will happen yet, and I don't want it to, because I don't like the idea of 2 rookies playing together. I like having a younger guy paired with a vet to provide stability, though Letang looked REALLY uncomfortable with Despres the other day. That is why I think Despres will be going back down to WBS soon, or may be a top candidate for trade if DJ or Boychuk don't light the world on fire.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

It has been said that one of the only currencies a coach has over a player is ice-time. I have no problem benching a player, especially a young one, for them to learn and play better for it.

As for not giving them more ice-time, you've got to remember a couple of things:

1) This team has had problems in the past not playing a full 60 minutes and/or taking their foot off the gas. I think it was really important to establish some confidence of just how good they could be when they play their full game for, well, the full game.

2) It's very possible that Despres and Bortuzzo have not played a lot together ever before, and certainly not at all at the NHL level. We may have had a healthy lead, but WSH is still a dangerous team, and you've got to wean those guys in, especially if they don't have that familiarity. If DB wants to pair them up, let them at least practice together and get some games in for a while before you start giving them too much responsibility. Even then, I don't think it will happen yet, and I don't want it to, because I don't like the idea of 2 rookies playing together. I like having a younger guy paired with a vet to provide stability, though Letang looked REALLY uncomfortable with Despres the other day. That is why I think Despres will be going back down to WBS soon, or may be a top candidate for trade if DJ or Boychuk don't light the world on fire.

Even if that vet is Lovejoy?

Knowing our injury history, I'm not so willing to trade Despres away knowing that it'd make Lovejoy the #7 again.

 

[jmelm]

Even if that vet is Lovejoy?

Knowing our injury history, I'm not so willing to trade Despres away knowing that it'd make Lovejoy the #7 again.

Lovejoy being the #7 is just a formality -- and would be a warm body in the event of a freak injury (i.e. some player stepping on a puck or getting food poisoning during warm-up).


The fact is, if someone was out for any signficant time period, such as what just happened with Nisky, then you call up a guy like Despres or Dumoulin from WBS. The #7 D is not a guy who should play unless it's an emergency. That's why you don't want to have a good young player (Despres, Bortuzzo) sitting in the pressbox. Lovejoy, however, has nothing to lose by sitting in the pressbox, because he can't get much worse.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The biggest difference between 2013 Martin and 2012 Martin, IMO, is that the puck isn't jumping up over his stick at the blue line all the time like it had been.

To be honest, what I think the biggest difference between this year's Martin (so far) and last year's, is he seems more willing to engage physically this year. He's not and never will be a physical beast, but at least he seems to actually battle in the corners now. Last year, he looked like a fairy princess whenever he had to go near the boards.

 

[Captain Hook]

To be honest, what I think the biggest difference between this year's Martin (so far) and last year's, is he seems more willing to engage physically this year. He's not and never will be a physical beast, but at least he seems to actually battle in the corners now. Last year, he looked like a fairy princess whenever he had to go near the boards.

Yeah, I read that Martin said he worked extra hard in the off-season and added 10 pounds of muscle. Maybe that's helping him.