Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Muzz/Letang are STARS tonight!

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The fun thing is: finally Pens have forward depth again. So thinking about Kahun is sideshow. Just fun to watch this depleted team right now.

Yup. And we have the higher end prospects down in WBS all growing...with Legare/Poulin/Addison as well.


Window longer than expected.

And I predicted this would be an exciting season but def didnt think it would be due to having 5 injuries to start the season and winning in spite of it.

We had a lot of "IFs" coming into the season. Great to see Tanev looking like some of us thought. Who cares about length of contract...we desperately needed a player like him. Great to see PH showing he still belongs. And obviously great to see the WBS kids stepping up..when they werent the ones I was expecting to.

Simon still who I think he is tho...and since I do care about Crosby getting points, hes gonna keep pissing me off cuz Sully will keep him on Sids line. When we have options that would be much better.

Simon will get a point in one game and he ends up cementing himself...thats the prob. Instead of looking at how many more that Sid should have had if not for Simon.

How about getting Kahun(since Sully wont put Tanev there) going by putting him on line 1? Simon has had 3 years.now.

Had to complain about something...yeah Some here like Simon...hes just not for me. Would be fine back in previous era's lol. Too vanilla. And no hands.

Itd be diff if we didn't have guys who could do better with Sid/Jake.

 

[blondu]

No one mentioning murray's first period saves that were crucial. Also dallas had big chances to equalise at the end. Im not taking anything from the team but it wasnt a big discrepany between the two teams.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I still think (read: hope) that Kahun's still struggling with settling in, and once he gets comfortable and finds a spot and linemates, he'll play well. Even if he doesn't, he's pretty expendable and his deal is up this summer. Cap space.


Murzy. Everyone's happy, except Murray, and really--who cares?

Usually Sully helps a newcomer by putting him with Sid.. To get him going. Simon blocking that .

 

[Icarium]

Games like that are the reason why you pay Horny 5 million and are happy about it - when a goalie is hot and the team needs a dirty goal or digging out a puck in front of the net leading to a good chance there is nobody better. Letang was so incredible that I am scared that he is due for yet another freak injury. Best of all, we kept our composure and structure and eventually got rewarded. I guess Jake and Lafferty got a bit of karmic revenge for all the puck luck they had in the past week or so - so many chances and not a single goal but no big deal since we won. If someone had told me after the loss to the Jets that we would have 5 wins in a row next and playing great hockey to boot I would have asked them what they were smoking. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Usually Sully helps a newcomer by putting him with Sid.. To get him going. Simon blocking that .

Nah, I do think Sid's comfortable with Simon because he can think/play the game at the level Sid/Jake play it. I just don't think Simon's got the offensive tools to be a threat while on that line, and I don't think his defensive game is strong enough to make up for the lack of creativity/shot. I'd rather see Rust or Tanev doing all the dirty work and flying around causing havoc on the forecheck than Simon's brand of simply existing™.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I know I’m a broken record, but the idea of Bjugstad coming back into this lineup makes me want to throw up.

Rust is the only one coming back that I don’t see as a wrench in the machine right now.

I’m hoping Malkin sees what playing with discipline and structure is doing again for this team and he buys in...

AG and Bju are the antithesis of how this team needs to play.

It is worrisome because JR isn’t going to trade both guys away and Sullivan won’t sit them so...

Just have to hope they figure it out without derailing things. Maybe things fall apart before they are back and we are wishing for these guys, but I have my doubts and don’t see this as a fluke.

 

[Peat]

Simon still who I think he is tho...and since I do care about Crosby getting points, hes gonna keep pissing me off cuz Sully will keep him on Sids line. When we have options that would be much better.

Simon will get a point in one game and he ends up cementing himself...thats the prob. Instead of looking at how many more that Sid should have had if not for Simon.

How about getting Kahun(since Sully wont put Tanev there) going by putting him on line 1? Simon has had 3 years.now.

Had to complain about something...yeah Some here like Simon...hes just not for me. Would be fine back in previous era's lol. Too vanilla. And no hands.

Itd be diff if we didn't have guys who could do better with Sid/Jake.

Crosby's ES scoring rate with Simon -

17/18 - 12 points in 245.16 minutes - 2.93 p/60 - 67.35 point pace if he'd played every ES minute with Simon that season (actual ES points - 51)
18/19 - 14 points in 269.52 minutes - 3.11 p/60 - 70.55 point pace if he'd played every ES minute with Simon that season (actual ES points - 69)
19/20 - 7 points in 106.04 minutes - 3.96 p/60 - 82.64 point pace if he plays as many ES minutes as he did last season and plays all of them with Simon

When people care about Crosby getting points but are pissed off about Crosby playing with a guy who's he has a consistently higher scoring rate with compared to his actual scoring rate over the last two seasons and with whom he's currently scoring at an absolutely insane rate

 

[JTG]

Rust is the only one coming back that I don’t see as a wrench in the machine right now.

I’m hoping Malkin sees what playing with discipline and structure is doing again for this team and he buys in...

AG and Bju are the antithesis of how this team needs to play.

It is worrisome because JR isn’t going to trade both guys away and Sullivan won’t sit them so...

Just have to hope they figure it out without derailing things. Maybe things fall apart before they are back and we are wishing for these guys, but I have my doubts and don’t see this as a fluke.

The Pens need to find a guy like Gallagher from Montreal. He is exactly what we need.

 

[Turin]

Nah, I do think Sid's comfortable with Simon because he can think/play the game at the level Sid/Jake play it. I just don't think Simon's got the offensive tools to be a threat while on that line, and I don't think his defensive game is strong enough to make up for the lack of creativity/shot. I'd rather see Rust or Tanev doing all the dirty work and flying around causing havoc on the forecheck than Simon's brand of simply existing™.

Simon has another assist last night and the ice was heavily tilted once again by Crosby’s line. But yea.. mess with that.

 

[JTG]

It appeared to me with the 2 games I have been to this season that both Sid and Jake enjoy playing with Simon. They do mesh well together - much more so than what is witnessed on TV. They all work well together in terms of assignments and moving the puck.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

As soon as Simon starts to directly have a hand in the goals Sid and/or Jake are scoring other than simply being on the line when they produce, I'll start to think he's playing more of a role than simple coincidence. He's not hurting those guys when he's on the ice, and he can think/play the game at their pace--which is important, but to say that line's playing at an insane level with Simon completely discounts the fact that Sid's playing at an absolutely ungodly level right now and doing things pretty much on his own night in and night out. Dude's playing Hart/Selke-level hockey. Simon just so happens to be on the line and along for the ride, imo.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You don't think Sid would have him off the line if he didn't like how he was playing? Look how quickly he 86s Hornqvist on his line whenever Sullivan puts him there.

Simon's on Sid's line, because Sid wants him to be. Take it up with Sid if you don't like it, I guess?

 

[JTG]

As soon as Simon starts to directly have a hand in the goals Sid and/or Jake are scoring other than simply being on the line when they produce, I'll start to think he's playing more of a role than simple coincidence. He's not hurting those guys when he's on the ice, and he can think/play the game at their pace--which is important, but to say that line's playing at an insane level with Simon completely discounts the fact that Sid's playing at an absolutely ungodly level right now and doing things pretty much on his own night in and night out. Dude's playing Hart/Selke-level hockey. Simon just so happens to be on the line and along for the ride, imo.

Simon does help Sid. I'm not a Simon apologist, but part of Sid being so good is that he trusts Simon, whether thats to pick up for him defensively or to get Sid the puck offensively. We don't have to like Simon...Sid does. It is very, very evident. This isn't Sully forcing Sid to play with Simon.

 

[JTG]

Sid likes playing with players that can get him the puck when he is coming with speed. Simon is really good at that.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Crosby's ES scoring rate with Simon -

17/18 - 12 points in 245.16 minutes - 2.93 p/60 - 67.35 point pace if he'd played every ES minute with Simon that season (actual ES points - 51)
18/19 - 14 points in 269.52 minutes - 3.11 p/60 - 70.55 point pace if he'd played every ES minute with Simon that season (actual ES points - 69)
19/20 - 7 points in 106.04 minutes - 3.96 p/60 - 82.64 point pace if he plays as many ES minutes as he did last season and plays all of them with Simon

When people care about Crosby getting points but are pissed off about Crosby playing with a guy who's he has a consistently higher scoring rate with compared to his actual scoring rate over the last two seasons and with whom he's currently scoring at an absolutely insane rate

Would you re-sign Simon for 5 years 3.5 mil?

We also have more options for that line now than we did the last two seasons.

 

[The Worst One]

A more important question is, why does Cole call him "Muzz"? Every time I hear Crosby talk about him, I'm pretty sure he calls him "Murr".

What?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Simon does help Sid. I'm not a Simon apologist, but part of Sid being so good is that he trusts Simon, whether thats to pick up for him defensively or to get Sid the puck offensively. We don't have to like Simon...Sid does. It is very, very evident. This isn't Sully forcing Sid to play with Simon.

I'm not suggesting anyone is forcing Simon on the line. I've said time and again he's not a guy that hurts the Sid/Jake combo and he can play the game at their tempo. That doesn't mean he's actively contributing in noticeable ways or is a good long-term solution to that line's RW issue either. We can do worse than Simon, namely Horqvist--who is too slow to fit the style Sid/Jake play. I just don't think that line's surge in play has nearly as much to do with Simon as many others do, and I hope that we can address the RW spot in a semi-permanent fashion this upcoming summer. We've certainly got bigger fish to fry with our blueline being a mess, the ongoing lack of a real 3C (even when Bjugs returns) and that sort of thing, but I really don't want to see Simon in the top-6 when we flesh this roster out. The fact that Simon just so happens to be on that line while Sid's playing out of his mind and carrying this team on his back most nights is purely coincidental, imo. Again, not a guy that's gonna hurt you, but he's a stop-gap and we should absolutely strive to find a better option there sometime down the road.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Anyone else sick of Mears and Errey trying to jinx the team? With over 9 minutes left in the 3rd period with a 2 goal lead (worst lead in hockey they say) Mears and Errey are writing the Stars off. I yelling at the TV telling them to shut up and the Stars almost came back in that game.

 

[ColePens]

Meh..Kahun is 24 years old, RFA, and costs 900k. When people say "I wish we had cap space instead of Kahun!" - I think you are crazy. We moved Maatta's 4.1m out and Kahun is basically any roster player we call up.

He reminds me of a mix between Simon/Sheary. Sheary was a disaster when he first came up, falling down everywhere, then turned into a solid NHLer with a real NHL shot. Simon is finding his niche. Kahun is a mix between both, especially how he stickhandles. I think he should probably be F13 right now, but we will see when we get healthy.

Nonetheless - probably a prettttttty cheap re-sign at this point and let's just see what we have. We are like 8 games in and people are already stamping their opinion on a guy they've seen in 3-4 preseason games and 8 regular season. Let's be patient. Goodness.

 

[vodeni]

Simon has another assist last night and the ice was heavily tilted once again by Crosby’s line. But yea.. mess with that.

the good news is, last time I checked Sully gets to decide

 

[HandshakeLine]

No, I meant I’d rather have the cap space than Maatta.

Kahun is fine, he’s dirt cheap even if he’s still having some issues.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The Pens need to find a guy like Gallagher from Montreal. He is exactly what we need.

Was looking at him too as a potential trade for Schultz. Habs in need for Dmen...and keep reading how much they want Schultz. Someone they'd offer a big deal to.

They also have a bunch of young forward prospects. Ryan Poehling, Nick Suzuki, Cole Caulfield and so on. Considered the deepest pool in the league. Not to mention alot of them being in AHL. So not far away. Also having two solid Goalie prospects, and with how much goalies are getting paid now.....if they have another year of losing they could decide to rebuild fully(Price has kinda prevented them from that). You never know what to expect from Canadian teams to be honest. So much pressure on them to succeed they end up making too many moves and taking a step back imo. We've seen it way too often over the years. Look at Oilers. Make playoffs in McDavids second season so they think they are next Pens and go alll in immediately. Thought not having a top dman was the prob(mind you they had 2 already who were on their way in Nurse and Klebom and now we are seeing the Results from them. We saw it coming then...there was no need to trade Hall. And now they have Ethan Bear producing too.

Also trading Eberle...another dumb decision. Needed wingers? Yet kept trading them away.

The Lucic contract. Everybody knew at the time how bad it was. All they had to do was stay patient. Let things develop thru draft..other prospects develop and then add.

Flames and Toronto finally learned how to do it the right way. Then again it does require taking the right guys in the draft. If they didnt land Marner..could have been totally diff. Having to go thru FA instead . Like Sabres did with Okposo...and we saw how that worked. Flames getting Tkachuk at 6 to go with the rest changed them( Oilers taking Puli over him was another failure...all of the what ifs with them would sound too far fetched for a movie).

Anyway back on topic to the Habs. They have a tough division and a ton of pressure of course. Already made a ton of trades as well. But they have drafted well lately. And alot of picks in the mid rounds who are looking good in AHL makes a huge diff too. Gallagher could still be part of a rebuild but prob is while hes 27..he will be 29 When UFA and hes only currently making 3.5mil a year. So thats a huge raise for a 29 year old while you are rebuilding. Schultz on other hand..same age..but with the prospects they have at forward...theyd choose him.

This isnt just me trying to justify that type of trade....its already being discussed. Schultz wouldnt even have to want to stay since they would just flip him depending on if they decide to rebuild or not.

We could have Gallagher with Sid\Jake. Thats a first line that tops the others in the league(or at least ties them) then we have a 2nd line better than most. And 3rd line who could be developing something special. McCann/Hornqvist could be our 3rd great duo to go with Guentzel/Crosby and Galchenyuk/Crosby. Was great to see McCann score in first game back, really need him to step up and be a diff maker come playoff time if we are gonna be a legit contender. Since as I said..that would make Hornqvist a threat again in playoffs.

If we have to add...so be it. Whether Habs want young players in ZAR/Simon/Riikola/Kahun/AJ/etc or a top prospect...or someone like Bjugstad with Schultz if they want to flip for more assets. We just have to see how their season is going.

 

[ColePens]

No, I meant I’d rather have the cap space than Maatta.

Kahun is fine, he’s dirt cheap even if he’s still having some issues.

100000000% agree.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Simon is playing really well. Not sure what his board is seeing. His entries are really good. He always hits 87 or 59 on the stick in space. Dude is a great 3rd wheel for that line.

 

[ColePens]

Simon is playing really well. Not sure what his board is seeing. His entries are really good. He always hits 87 or 59 on the stick in space. Dude is a great 3rd wheel for that line.

I think the board sees the same thing that is always said. I think red line to opposition's goal line, Simon is solid. Really creative. Hands are brilliant. Great puck support. Good solid work overall.

On the other side (red line to our goal line) you have 5 turnovers from the same spot yesterday. He really struggled on the half wall on the breakout. He kept turning it over on the same spot. Then he had a really bad shift in his last one of the game up 1 goal. That's on Sully - shouldn't be using him in that role.

That being said, he deserves in the lineup each night. I think way more than ZAR/Kahun/AJ/Blandisi. And I understand ZAR has a slightly different role, but I think Simon can play a better one and Laff can move into ZAR's role (along with Rusty). So when we get healthy, I have Simon in front of those 4. I personally think Kahun/Simon are near identical. Even their careers are on the same path. They 3rd wheeled a solid line and added their nice compliment. They probably aren't full time top 6ers but are still young enough to have room to grow.