Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 3- Jussi that? You Jokinen Me?

[Fordy]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

 

[IcedCapp]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

Yea, it's not bipolar if you're consistently saying it.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

Everyone can acknowledge that's not ideal, but that's different than the "Dupuis sucks" vibe a few people are dishing. And even the "Dupuis is not a 1st line guy" crowd (which I'm a part of generally -- I called for him to play with Staal many times, back in the day), should admit that he HAS worked on, and improved the offensive elements of his game the last 3 years or so. His hands for example, are way better than they were when he came here. He's a better player, not a static entity. Kunitz is a better player too / has a better shot and accuracy than when he arrived. Both are smarter passers too in the O zone. Some of that is Crosby Effect, some of it is just getting better and more confident.

Dupuis would ideally be a great 3rd liner, an OK 2nd liner with someone other than Geno, and a role player with some scoring touch as a 1st liner. But he was a role player that put up a lot of even strength points the last couple years (way more than Kennedy ever would have) so... people shouldn't be harshing on the guy.

We're 3-0 and playing well all-around so... there's just no cause for it right now.

 

[Til the End of Time]

Everyone can acknowledge that's not ideal, but that's different than the "Dupuis sucks" vibe a few people are dishing. And even the "Dupuis is not a 1st line guy" crowd (which I'm a part of generally -- I called for him to play with Staal many times, back in the day), should admit that he HAS worked on, and improved the offensive elements of his game the last 3 years or so. His hands for example, are way better than they were when he came here. He's a better player, not a static entity. Kunitz is a better player too / has a better shot and accuracy than when he arrived. Both are smarter passers too in the O zone. Some of that is Crosby Effect, some of it is just getting better and more confident.

Dupuis would ideally be a great 3rd liner, an OK 2nd liner with someone other than Geno, and a role player with some scoring touch as a 1st liner. But he was a role player that put up a lot of even strength points the last couple years (way more than Kennedy ever would have) so... people shouldn't be harshing on the guy.

We're 3-0 and playing well all-around so... there's just no cause for it right now.

its just hard to get excited about regular season games when the team has the same fundamental flaws that will ultimately kill them in the post-season.

last night was the first game of the season i actually got to watch live and i fell asleep half-way through. maybe time for new hobby.

 

[Shady Machine]

its just hard to get excited about regular season games when the team has the same fundamental flaws that will ultimately kill them in the post-season.

last night was the first game of the season i actually got to watch live and i fell asleep half-way through. maybe time for new hobby.

No offense dude, but you are a Crosby legacy fan, not a Penguins fan so I'm not surprised you fell asleep watching a hockey game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Everyone can acknowledge that's not ideal, but that's different than the "Dupuis sucks" vibe a few people are dishing. And even the "Dupuis is not a 1st line guy" crowd (which I'm a part of generally -- I called for him to play with Staal many times, back in the day), should admit that he HAS worked on, and improved the offensive elements of his game the last 3 years or so. His hands for example, are way better than they were when he came here. He's a better player, not a static entity. Kunitz is a better player too / has a better shot and accuracy than when he arrived. Both are smarter passers too in the O zone. Some of that is Crosby Effect, some of it is just getting better and more confident.

Dupuis would ideally be a great 3rd liner, an OK 2nd liner with someone other than Geno, and a role player with some scoring touch as a 1st liner. But he was a role player that put up a lot of even strength points the last couple years (way more than Kennedy ever would have) so... people shouldn't be harshing on the guy.

We're 3-0 and playing well all-around so... there's just no cause for it right now.

My eye is always on the playoffs, with good reason and finding a combo that helps Crosby when it truly matters.

So ya, I don't think this is a three game issue with Dupes. Many of us having been saying for years he isn't a legit top line winger. I keep seeing the same things every season that worry me... And low and behold these issues come to the forefront when Crosby is being tightly checked in the playoffs.

Stats don't matter much to me with him TBTH. He is productive no matter where he is put. However, there is a huge difference between regular season production and making keys plays when there is little time and space in the playoffs.

In the last two games, Dupes had Crosby all alone in five instances I consider easy plays that require a little skill and touch, but blew it each time. The one time he rifled a puck at Crosby when he was all alone in a free gap and it bounced off his stick. If Crosby can't handle a pass, I mean c'mon. All Dupes needed to do was feather the pass... I couldn't believe he passed the puck that hard... But then I realized its Dupes... Good guy, hard worker, but expecting him to have skills he wasn't born with isn't fair.

The big one from last night was when Crosby was all alone going to the net and Dupes rifled it off the defenders skate. The defender was even drifting to him and left the crease wide open for Crosby. A little happy sauce and Crosby walks in all alone.

He isn't going to change at this age. He will hit his streaks this season, but déjà vue will set in come playoff time as always. Unless the Pens somehow avoid all of the elite checking teams.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

i really cannot stand pascal dupuis. nice guy, hard worker and all, but damn he's going to cost crosby probably 100 career points by the time sid's career is over.

i would not be upset if dupuis had an injury that threatened his career but allowed him to live a completely functional life outside of hockey.

Kinda harsh, ya?

 

[Waffle Fries]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

Yea, it's not bipolar if you're consistently saying it.

Exactly. It's not just these 3 games. Dupuis has never had the offensive instincts to be a first line players, when 'No-Hands Dupuis' shows up it's even more frustrating.

Dupuis is fast, good defensively, works hard, but has average offensive skills. That is a description of a third liner.

Part of the problem now is his contract. With the contract that he got, he is expected to play like a legitimate first liner, and he's not.


The thing is, I love Pascal Dupuis. Everyone does. He's the nicest, most likeable guy in the world. It's not his fault that he doesn't have the skillset to play with Crosby and help him out (especially in the playoffs), it's Bylma's fault for not recognizing it.

 

[mpp9]

Lots of positives, but since the pre-season I can't help but worry when I see Dupes and Kunitz blow simple plays that you would expect a top line winger to make, especially given that they are lucky enough to play with the best player in the world.

I've had this far fetched, wild ass, funky idea that would probably make DB hide under his bed if he saw it, but I've been wondering how you put Crosby with more skilled players who can make routine passes when he is uh, open and all...

BB Crosby JJ
Kunitz Malkin Neal
Kobasew Sutter Dupes

Now I know I broke up the "best regular season line in hockey" to put together the best line in hockey again, a sick third line and I gave Crosby both a setup man and a finisher, but it felt odd to type out these lines.... As if I was going agt. all logic... One simply doesn't break up the "best regular season line in hockey" without dire consequences.

Dupes would have his feelings hurt and Crosby wouldn't have TMJ from grinding his teeth all game... So NM... can't be having that.

I understand the idea of Sid's game being based around speed and having him play with guys that fit that style. But having another guy on that line that can finish or set Sid up regularly makes him a significantly more dangerous player.

I was hoping Beau would turn it up a notch last night. If he can string together some games where he clearly outplays Dupes, maybe he starts getting some shifts with Sid when Neal's back.

 

[mpp9]

My eye is always on the playoffs, with good reason and finding a combo that helps Crosby when it truly matters.

So ya, I don't think this is a three game issue with Dupes. Many of us having been saying for years he isn't a legit top line winger. I keep seeing the same things every season that worry me... And low and behold these issues come to the forefront when Crosby is being tightly checked in the playoffs.

Stats don't matter much to me with him TBTH. He is productive no matter where he is put. However, there is a huge difference between regular season production and making keys plays when there is little time and space in the playoffs.

In the last two games, Dupes had Crosby all alone in five instances I consider easy plays that require a little skill and touch, but blew it each time. The one time he rifled a puck at Crosby when he was all alone in a free gap and it bounced off his stick. If Crosby can't handle a pass, I mean c'mon. All Dupes needed to do was feather the pass... I couldn't believe he passed the puck that hard... But then I realized its Dupes... Good guy, hard worker, but expecting him to have skills he wasn't born with isn't fair.

The big one from last night was when Crosby was all alone going to the net and Dupes rifled it off the defenders skate. The defender was even drifting to him and left the crease wide open for Crosby. A little happy sauce and Crosby walks in all alone.

He isn't going to change at this age. He will hit his streaks this season, but déjà vue will set in come playoff time as always. Unless the Pens somehow avoid all of the elite checking teams.

Exactly. I remember a poster saying late last season a good line is a good line when he was defending KCD. Crosby has enough talent to control the flow of play on his own in the regular season. But he doesn't have the magical mystical powers to transfer his skills into Dupes' mind and hands when that line needs it most in the playoffs against the best.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I understand the idea of Sid's game being based around speed and having him play with guys that fit that style. But having another guy on that line that can finish or set Sid up regularly makes him a significantly more dangerous player.

I was hoping Beau would turn it up a notch last night. If he can string together some games where he clearly outplays Dupes, maybe he starts getting some shifts with Sid when Neal's back.

Dupes is there to stay I feel and that's what bothers me.

Chicago pissed all over Chara and Boston with their skill, while DB kept waiting for the "best line in the regular season" to take over.

Or more like he kept hoping Crosby would call on the power of Greyskull...

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

This.

People wanted Duper off Sid's hip even before his signed his 4 year 15 million dollar extension this summer, at the age of 34.

Now that he signed that deal he is going to be held to a much higher standard than a guy like TK who was bad but he wasn't attached to Sid's hip or making almost 4M a year.

 

[DegenX]

Let's also stop acting like thinking Dupuis shouldn't be on the first line is a new phenomenon. Been saying it for over a year now.

Agreed ... in fact remember this? Pulled it from a 2009 Pensburg post

Personally, I don't think Duper sucks, I've agreed with others as to what he brings to this team. I'd like to see him traded though, because as long as he's here, he's going to be on Crosby's line, which most of us agree isn't ideal, especially in the play offs. He's an asset with some value, we're against the cap and we have other, less costly guys filling out the third line rather nicely ... so that's my reasoning for wanting to move him.

 

[mpp9]

Dupes is there to stay I feel and that's what bothers me.

Chicago pissed all over Chara and Boston with their skill, while DB kept waiting for the "best line in the regular season" to take over.

Or more like he kept hoping Crosby would call on the power of Greyskull...

The funny thing is, Sid was held in check in games 5 and 6 in the Philly series. As well as the Ottawa series last season. So it's not even like it takes an elite defensive team to prove what's obvious.

Pascal Dupuis is the least skilled forward of anyone in our top 9 right now. And yet he's flanking our best player.

 

[Mordax]

After Jussi's HT:

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Personally, I don't think Duper sucks, I've agreed with others as to what he brings to this team. I'd like to see him traded though, because as long as he's here, he's going to be on Crosby's line, which most of us agree isn't ideal, especially in the play offs. He's an asset with some value, we're against the cap and we have other, less costly guys filling out the third line rather nicely ... so that's my reasoning for wanting to move him.

This isn't the first time where I think Shero needs to trade a player to get Db to play the right players ala Moneyball. Unfortunately, Shero seems to love his vets even more than DB.

 

[Til the End of Time]

damn i almost forget dupuis was signed for FOUR years... for some reason i was thinking three.

as a crosby fan its a shame that his best years are being wasted with dupuis flanking him, and as a pens fan it sucks that dupuis will be in the top six come playoff time.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

After Jussi's HT:

That's mean but funny as hell

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The funny thing is, Sid was held in check in games 5 and 6 in the Philly series. As well as the Ottawa series last season. So it's not even like it takes an elite defensive team to prove what's obvious.

Pascal Dupuis is the least skilled forward of anyone in our top 9 right now. And yet he's flanking our best player.

It's bad déjà vu every season.

Every year the Dupes apologist come out and show us how well he plays in the regular season... Then the playoffs roll around and reality sets in.

It's depressing to see the best player in the world hitting clean gaps 100 mph and he doesn't have guys who can consistently get him the puck or finish off his magic.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I'm praying AGAINST Dupuis scoring goals this year, just so he can finally find himself on a third line where he belongs. As odd as it sounds, even if he scores 30 goals a year, it doesn't make him a 30 goal scorer.

If Juice keeps going the way he is (and he's too clever a hockey player for him not to), put Beau up in Duper's spot and be done with it.

 

[ByeBye]

I find it quite disappointing that Crosby has now 4 points already. Takes away all the fun in the "Is Crosby back down to earth?" threads on the main boards that we have become so accustomed to.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm praying AGAINST Dupuis scoring goals this year, just so he can finally find himself on a third line where he belongs. As odd as it sounds, even if he scores 30 goals a year, it doesn't make him a 30 goal scorer.

If Juice keeps going the way he is (and he's too clever a hockey player for him not to), put Beau up in Duper's spot and be done with it.

With his contract being close to 4m now, it gives DB even more excuses to keep him up with Crosby.

 

[themethod7]

If Juice keeps going the way he is (and he's too clever a hockey player for him not to), put Beau up in Duper's spot and be done with it.

Before the season started I had resigned myself to the fact that KCD was here to stay and was just hoping BB got his shot alongside Malkin, but if this is what JJ+Malkin looks like, I'm all aboard the BB-to-Sid's-wing train. While I don't think he's entirely wasted on the 3rd line, I think Dupuis just makes so much more sense there, and given some time to gel, I think Sid/Bennett would be downright nasty.

Interestingly enough, during the intermission last night JJ mentioned the chemistry/euro-connection with Gino, and it's not something that I hadn't considered at the start of the season, but for whatever reason it seems to be legit, and I'm hopeful that it goes both ways - I think Malkin's been needing that ever since Gonchar left. Still wouldn't mind seeing Shero go after Kulemin at some point in the future, but for now I have to think JJ/Malkin/Neal is gonna be a permanent fixture going forward, and I have no problem with that.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

With his contract being close to 4m now, it gives DB even more excuses to keep him up with Crosby.

Yeah... I had already come to terms with some other team paying him that money and being completely fine with it. That much money, for another 4 years? Yikes....

 

[MtlPenFan]

Dupes is there to stay I feel and that's what bothers me.

Chicago pissed all over Chara and Boston with their skill, while DB kept waiting for the "best line in the regular season" to take over.

Or more like he kept hoping Crosby would call on the power of Greyskull...

Sid and Geno may be the best players in the world, but not in the way Mario and Gretzky were in their heyday. Even the biggest Yzerman/Lafontaine/Sakic/Forsberg homer would never argue they were even close to either of the Big Two, much less better.

In other words, the distance between Sid/Geno and Stamkos/Toews/Kane etc. is barely a hair's width, so this continued nonsense of "BUT WE HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD!!!" no longer applies as it once did.

While a salary cap certainly doesn't help our cause, it does seem to me even the coaching staff and front office have fallen into the fanboy trap of believing that simply anyone can be plugged in alongside Sid and Geno and everything will be golden.

Jiggy mentioned Chicago vs. Boston, and he couldn't have been more right. All you have to do is go back to the last minute of game 6 to understand what we mean. The tying goal happens because Kane is able to artfully weave through the neutral zone instead of hoping he or a teammate win a race for the puck after a dump. Whenever I watch that video, all I can think to myself is "If Dupuis has the puck, he dumps it in the second he hits the red line", and most likely the Boston D picks up the puck and dumps it back out.

I've been saying this for years now. I'm okay with Kunitz with Sid. I'm okay with Dupuis with Sid, but I'm NOT okay with BOTH of them with Sid.