Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 1

FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*

Guest
Crosby for Duchene straight up?:laugh:

I'm done responding to you. It's like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old. I have no hope of ever getting through to you.

THANK YOU Believe all you want this team with 2 players is ever going to beat a complete team it's never going to happen . Keeping Crosby , Malkin together this team has seen its last cup.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,351
18,776
Pittsburgh
Exactly what I was thinking. If Sid got over losing his roommate who was a genuine friend and kept him loose he's not gonna cry over Kunitz. Even if he did, it's like taking a dog to the vet. Just jiggle the leash and get 'em in the car because they're too stupid to know they're better off.

Fleury's his roommate now.

But don't this as me disagreeing, there can be light at the end of the tunnel removing those guys. Dupuis is here to stay with the blood clots so he'll be in it for one last shot next season. Kunitz when he's like this is indicative of an injury which he generally at some point bounces back. Well, it's been 3/4 season and one playoff game since his broken foot. Is he done or is it the foot?

I don't have an issue either way. I do know all rookies in the top six won't cut it either, good they still have Perron and Hornqvist.
 

djt153

Registered User
Dec 26, 2003
3,616
0
why are you hyphenating prospect, it might be the final straw in this post-despres world
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
Staal got the 8th pick Sutter and pros-pect Crosby , Malkin gets you more than that at least 2 players and top 10 pick + pros-pect easily. Crosby and Malkin in 5 years will be worth nothing at 33 , 34 years old trade them now cause doubtful this team wins in the next 5 years

Listen, I'm gonna try to piece it out for you because it's clear you're not getting it.

Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are superstar, generational talents who are likely to be Hall of Fame players when they retire. They have more value than anyone in the league, especially to this team. They are the faces of this franchise. They are the only reason this team isn't vying for McDavid right now, plain and simple, end of story.

For this team, the Pittsburgh Penguins of the National Hockey League, to trade one of aforementioned players, the team would need to be getting back a return it couldn't refuse. That means, for example, getting Perry, Gibson, Ritchie and Silfverberg from the Ducks for either Sid or Geno. The Ducks (or any team in the league) wouldn't gut their team and prospect pool for one player, regardless of how good he is.

There is no trade in the universe of possibilities that makes sense for both sides when it comes to moving Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. The entire possibility of either being moved is about as likely as Bill Gates randomly deciding to leave you his entire wealth after he dies.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
It's not a rental, so it's fine. Perron will right the ship eventually - it might not be this year - and when he does he'll score regularly again.

Our lack of a breakout just kills our ability to generate any offense. I'd like to think things will improve offensively with Ehrhoff and Pouliot getting the puck to our forwards.

Our lack of breakout is largely due to personnel. The wings, Perron included, outside of Comeau and, surprisingly Hornqvist, don't cover enough ground to skate it out or chip it up the wall and win a race. Our d don't skate it well enough to skate it out or pass well enough to stretch pass it. Since the centers are all covered, we just bank it up the wall and hope for a weird bounce to go to one of our guys. Extremely low percentage play.

There's two ways to win in this league these days. You outmuscle the opposition. Or you out skate them. Penguins don't have the personnel to do either thing to any team that made the playoffs.

Unless we bring up our like, 5 best skaters from Wilkes-barre, we're dead in the water before the puck is dropped. And even then, I doubt that works because I'm not sure any of them are any good.


One thing I might do is get Harrington in the lineup instead of Dumo. Not that I think he's better, but he's got more experience in high pressure situations, even though his teams weren't always successful. The image of Harrington wiping out and inexplicably recovering into a dog pile screen in front of Malcom Subban for an easy Jake McCabe goal is something I'll not forget any time soon, but Dumo getting his feet wet in a hopeless cause isn't going to do any favors for his NHL jitters.

Although, in a perfect world he'd be playing for Scuderi. Couldn't possibly be any worse.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,351
18,776
Pittsburgh
Our lack of breakout is largely due to personnel. The wings, Perron included, outside of Comeau and, surprisingly Hornqvist, don't cover enough ground to skate it out or chip it up the wall and win a race. Our d don't skate it well enough to skate it out or pass well enough to stretch pass it. Since the centers are all covered, we just bank it up the wall and hope for a weird bounce to go to one of our guys. Extremely low percentage play.

There's two ways to win in this league these days. You outmuscle the opposition. Or you out skate them. Penguins don't have the personnel to do either thing to any team that made the playoffs.

Unless we bring up our like, 5 best skaters from Wilkes-barre, we're dead in the water before the puck is dropped. And even then, I doubt that works because I'm not sure any of them are any good.


One thing I might do is get Harrington in the lineup instead of Dumo. Not that I think he's better, but he's got more experience in high pressure situations, even though his teams weren't always successful. The image of Harrington wiping out and inexplicably recovering into a dog pile screen in front of Malcom Subban for an easy Jake McCabe goal is something I'll not forget any time soon, but Dumo getting his feet wet in a hopeless cause isn't going to do any favors for his NHL jitters.

Although, in a perfect world he'd be playing for Scuderi. Couldn't possibly be any worse.


I'd rather find out about Dumoulin now than Harrington since he will still be on a ELC. Not that Harrinton couldn't make a showing at some point.
 

FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*

Guest
Crosby for Duchene straight up?:laugh:

I'm done responding to you. It's like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old. I have no hope of ever getting through to you.

Either Duchene or Landeskog + Johnson + the 9th over-all pick + pick or pros-pect So keep laughing.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
I'd rather find out about Dumoulin now than Harrington since he will still be on a ELC. Not that Harrinton couldn't make a showing at some point.

Only thing you're going to learn about Dumoulin right now is that he's nervous and I could have told you that in camp just by his body language.

Whether he can play in the NHL like he does in the A isn't something you'll know for 150 more games of nhl action, here or elsewhere.
 

FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*

Guest
Listen, I'm gonna try to piece it out for you because it's clear you're not getting it.

Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are superstar, generational talents who are likely to be Hall of Fame players when they retire. They have more value than anyone in the league, especially to this team. They are the faces of this franchise. They are the only reason this team isn't vying for McDavid right now, plain and simple, end of story.

For this team, the Pittsburgh Penguins of the National Hockey League, to trade one of aforementioned players, the team would need to be getting back a return it couldn't refuse. That means, for example, getting Perry, Gibson, Ritchie and Silfverberg from the Ducks for either Sid or Geno. The Ducks (or any team in the league) wouldn't gut their team and prospect pool for one player, regardless of how good he is.



There is no trade in the universe of possibilities that makes sense for both sides when it comes to moving Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. The entire possibility of either being moved is about as likely as Bill Gates randomly deciding to leave you his entire wealth after he dies.

it's about winning its a team sport one of Crosby or Malkin will be traded in the summer if this team fails once again.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
it's about winning its a team sport one of Crosby or Malkin will be traded in the summer if this team fails once again.

Alright, you're beyond help. Godspeed.

mpma0eu.gif
 

FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*

Guest
Alright, you're beyond help. Godspeed.

mpma0eu.gif

I MUST BE STUPID not understanding why everyone wants them together when they can't win or even come close. Funny thing is the team that will win the cup this season won't have Crosby or Malkin on their team. Fluke I guess lol
 
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Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,351
18,776
Pittsburgh
it's about winning its a team sport one of Crosby or Malkin will be traded in the summer if this team fails once again.

What part of them not trading the core away do you not understand?

You may theorize it, but it's simply not happening. The core four is not hurting them moving forward with infusing cheaper contracts both in youth and getting rid of elders.

The thought is not worth the risk, you'll never replace those guys.
 

NewAgeOutlaw

Belie Dat!
Jul 15, 2011
30,173
7,963
412/724
I MUST BE STUPID not understanding why everyone wants them together when they can't win or even come close. Funny thing is the team that will win the cup this season won't have Crosby or Malkin on their team. Fluke I guess lol

tumblr_nguhgr7Ge81s6vpv3o1_500.gif


The bolded is the smartest thing you've said all day.

Either Duchene or Landeskog + Johnson + the 9th over-all pick + pick or pros-pect So keep laughing.

Believe me I will keep laughing. Without knowing it you are quite the comedian.:laugh:
 
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Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,579
21,121
One thing I might do is get Harrington in the lineup instead of Dumo. Not that I think he's better, but he's got more experience in high pressure situations, even though his teams weren't always successful. The image of Harrington wiping out and inexplicably recovering into a dog pile screen in front of Malcom Subban for an easy Jake McCabe goal is something I'll not forget any time soon, but Dumo getting his feet wet in a hopeless cause isn't going to do any favors for his NHL jitters.

Harrington fell because Reilly clipped the back of his leg as he was skating backwards, and then he took the open man driving the net. The point man, McCabe, was not his responsibility:



/defendingHarringtontangent :sarcasm:
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
Harrington fell because Reilly clipped the back of his leg as he was skating backwards, and then he took the open man driving the net. The point man, McCabe, was not his responsibility:



/defendingHarringtontangent :sarcasm:


:laugh:

It's not just on him or even mostly on him, but I'm of the opinion everybody but Subban should have been horsewhipped for how that sequence ended.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,636
14,512
Pittsburgh
The Pens are due for a lot of power plays. Maybe 9 or 10 to none for the Rags next game.

Just like Kunitz is due to have a huge game.

I think both are about as likely.
 

tom_servo

Registered User
Sep 27, 2002
17,154
6,011
Pittsburgh
I MUST BE STUPID not understanding why everyone wants them together when they can't win or even come close. Funny thing is the team that will win the cup this season won't have Crosby or Malkin on their team. Fluke I guess lol

Having those players on a team gives you a bias that they should win every other year, making the years they don't look like a conspicuous failure.

From this perspective, six straight years without a Cup seems like a titanic catastrophe.

However, what you want is a more traditional configuration, presumably to lessen the pain of failure that comes with (artificially) higher expectations.

There's no reason to believe that actually trading either of these players would increase the odds of winning a Stanley Cup for the foreseeable future. You won't get the value you would assume, and you would have to assume a greater emphasis on roster building through the draft, which has been the real failure around here.

Maybe you want the players traded so that it would limit management's proclivity towards short-term trades. Still, that's a big risk.

I get it, you'd rather have the mystery box with the hopes that a radical change would mean a big payoff. Most people's opinion seems to be that the evidence points towards failures surrounding those two players. Cashing in those players on the market still doesn't solve the biggest problems in Penguins management.

They're locked up with increasingly cap friendly deals for their career. They've won at least one Cup. They're still elite, if not dominant anymore. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
All trading Malkin or Crosby does is increase the one you trade's chances of winning a Cup, while significantly lowering the chances of the one you keep.

It seems we've gone to the other extreme here. When we talk about how this team is stuck in the past, trying to relive the '09 Cup triumph, we are suggesting it's HIGH time to move on from some of the '09 relics on this roster (Adams, Scuderi, Kunitz).

Then the organization suggests we have a 'core four' of Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang...and they're going nowhere.

Whether that's true or not is up for some debate, but I think there is still plenty of room to refresh this roster WITHOUT having to deal one of the two cornerstone players.

I mean, if we're going to start trading centers why not start with No. 16???
 

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