Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[Buffdog]

I mean slumps happen to even the best of players. Crosby for instance only has 2 points in his last 8 games and is -12.

I think it's probably juat as simple as he went cold , then got down on himself because he hasn't got the experience yet to deal with the ebbs and flows on a season and then started second guessing himself. Once that happens play suffers.

Seems like he's found his game again and of he keeps playing like this he will start scoring again.

That's most likely. This is his first full season since turning pro, and his cold streak coincides with when the long season turns into a grind

82 games is a lot, and even though it's these guys' full time job, I don't think many of us have any frame of reference to relate to what it is like. They're all most certainly dinged up to some degree

I watched my daughter go from playing almost 27 minutes a night as a centre in prep to playing 2C on a U Sport team that ran 4 lines... the fact that she was 18 playing against 22 and 23 year old was a huge factor. She had a mini-slump in November but came on strong in the second half. She found that even though she was playing much fewer minutes, it was much harder for her

Cole has come a long way in his physical development but I think we're still waiting for his "man strength" to fully kick in, which is normal for a 22 year old. Next season will be easier for him, and then the one after that more so, etc

 

[sipowicz]

If the Jets were horrible and not going to make the playoffs absolutely play Perfetti 20 minutes a night on the 1st line but this team is one of the best in the league fighting for home ice advantage , i think Bowness is doing a great job. Perfetti is a very smart guy i would think he's ok with playing 4th line if the team is winning. Sometimes it just sounds like i don't like Bowness, i like Perfetti so Bowness is a dumbass play my favorite player more.

Don’t agree, if a players isn’t producing you don’t reward him with 1st line minutes!

Perfetti doesn’t have skill issue or a head issue, his main problems are lack of quickness and size!

 

[NA Hockey]

Don’t agree, if a players isn’t producing you don’t reward him with 1st line minutes!

Perfetti doesn’t have skill issue or a head issue, his main problems are lack of quickness and size!

I almost agree with you lol

I agree, If a player isn’t producing you don’t reward him with first line minutes. But when he was producing it would have been nice for him to get more than 13-14 mins a night and 2nd pp scraps.

His problem isn’t skill or his hockey iq, those are both upper echelon in the league.

His main problem is first three step quickness. His straight line speed has been clocked this year in the top 80% of the league. So it’s not a skating speed issue. But like you said a quickness issue that he will have to continue to work on and I am sure he will.

Where I disagree is the size comment. There are plenty of guys in the league his size or smaller and at 185 lbs weighs as much or more than a lot of guys as well.

I don’t think quickness or size is specifically why he suddenly dried up. I think a combination of hitting the wall and bad puck luck is why. He was the same size and quickness in the first half when he was producing at a very high rate.

I know you aren’t a big fan of his but I think you want him to do well for the sake of the team. Hopefully he takes off again soon.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I think Bones (who is a great coach) has been wrong about Ehlers but right about Cole. Or if it bugs you to hear fans call an NHL coach wrong, I can phrase it like this. I understand his decisions with Cole, but his decisions for Ehlers confuse me.

Cole has been on quite a long cold streak and that is often met with a demotion. I would agree with those who say most coaches, including Bones, are more likely to demote a kid than a vet. But in certain cases that is justified. For example, if Scheifele is on a cold streak, you simply just gotta find a way to get him going, because this team won't go anywhere in the post season without him. Also, as a coach, the things you have to teach a young player, and manner you have to teach it, are different than dealing with an older vet.

Whether Cole's play has been affected by injury or lack of stamina to hold up through a whole NHL season, less ice time might help either way. And as of the TDL, the 4th line is much more than a simple energy line, there's some talent there for him to work with.

Perfetti's play has looked good over the last few games, which I'm super happy to see. I think he's a tremendously exciting and talented player. Maybe what Bones is doing is working.

 

[TS Quint]

The question was "How does he put up a higher PPG average in less time, than in games where he plays more?"

Just for reference, this was the information that I put at the beginning of that specific post.

Post-Game Talk: - Kraken 4 - Jets 3

I still say they are holding off announcing bad news until after the deadline. They have been very coy on him. You thinking out for the season? If that's the case Chevy definitely has to pick up a decent winger

forums.hfboards.com

Here are all of the games, when Ehlers played less than 17 minutes (below).

Goals: 120
Assists: 144
PPG: 0.78
Games: 338

Just to compare, vs whenever he played 17 minutes and up:

Goals: 74
Assists: 101
PPG: 0.72
Games: 244

We'll move past the wins/losses, but just zoom in on his PPG difference. He's putting higher point totals in less time. Which brings us back to the question, "How does he put up a higher PPG average in less time, than in games where he plays more?"

Also, can we start questioning the validity of P/60 as it applies (specifically) to Ehlers?

The reason is most likely that he is playing on the “2nd line”and getting better match ups. It’s actually the 3rd line. After the #1 line goes out and gets matched with the other teams best defensive line and Lowry’s line gets matched against the other teams best or second best line, the 3rd line gets a good opportunity Vs lesser competition. depth is a great thing to have.

 

[DRW204]

It was short enough that I can't remember it happening. Not saying it didn't, but it was damn short.

His production had disappeared but he was still playing well.

What do you mean folks would be crying if it was any other player? It is not any other player and folks are crying to trade him, never mind demote him.

The discussion when Vilardi comes back won't be whether to play Perfetti on the 4th line or not. It will be whether to PB him or not.

Maybe we should be wondering what has gone wrong with Perfetti because he was living up to expectations until about 20-25 games ago. Then suddenly went cold.

your OP was about iafallo being on the 2nd line and when perfetti was going to play there over him. i said "he got the initial shot w/ monahan" and you said it was short. so are you refuting he got an initial shot? are you pointing something out that no one ever asked or brought up? Like what's the point?

Perfetti's production was trending down for months.

he had a great october, good november, and then he was mason-appleton level or worse. at 5v5:

what do i mean ppl would be crying about any other player... look at the last few pages of this thread.

Perfetti should probably be on the 4th over Iafallo, i think he has far more offensive talent and he is not a liability defensively. he and Names worked real well the first couple months so maybe w/ barron they can rediscover that. but really it's the 4th line, they'll likely aren't going to be putting huge stamps on games.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

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[Mortimer Snerd]

your OP was about iafallo being on the 2nd line and when perfetti was going to play there over him. i said "he got the initial shot w/ monahan" and you said it was short. so are you refuting he got an initial shot? are you pointing something out that no one ever asked or brought up? Like what's the point?

Perfetti's production was trending down for months.

he had a great october, good november, and then he was mason-appleton level or worse. at 5v5:
View attachment 835120

what do i mean ppl would be crying about any other player... look at the last few pages of this thread.

Perfetti should probably be on the 4th over Iafallo, i think he has far more offensive talent and he is not a liability defensively. he and Names worked real well the first couple months so maybe w/ barron they can rediscover that. but really it's the 4th line, they'll likely aren't going to be putting huge stamps on games.

Dropped a word, "Not saying it didn't" - insert happen - ", but it was damn short." So no, not refuting that it happened.

Not denying Perfetti's lack of production. But he was still playing well with no puck luck and linemates not finishing. Are you just ignoring Iafallo's lack of production?

Yes, look at the last few pages of this thread. You suggested that people are giving Perfetti some kind of free pass. For any other player they would be demanding he be demoted. In fact people have been calling for trading Perfetti or press boxing him.

Kid was in a protracted dry spell. His line had gone dry. Something needed to be done to get it going. I don't think Perfetti was necessarily the source of the problem there. But something had to be done. The arrival of Money and Toffoli pushes Perfetti down to the 4th line anyway. But Vilardi's injury creates an opening to give him another shot on the 2nd line with Money and Toffoli. For how long we don't know. Vilardi is day-to-day-to-day-to-day.

But Iafallo was pretty good there on Monday. Lets see if he can sustain that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He had a 3 point night on Jan 9 vs Columbus, and 2 assists since then

He had a great November (12 points), cooled off in December (5 points) then had 6 points in his first 6 games in January before the cold streak

Does anyone remember the timeline on the wrist issue? That seems to be something that could impact his offensive production but would allow him to maintain decent defensive metrics through his hockey sense and body positioning, etc

The scoring of the whole team dried up around that time too. It was not just Cole.

I don't remember if we were ever told the timeline of the wrist issue. It was eventually brought up that it had been bothering him for a while. I don't think we have been told that it is healed either.

 

[Jack7222]

The reason is most likely that he is playing on the “2nd line”and getting better match ups. It’s actually the 3rd line. After the #1 line goes out and gets matched with the other teams best defensive line and Lowry’s line gets matched against the other teams best or second best line, the 3rd line gets a good opportunity Vs lesser competition. depth is a great thing to have.

Garrett and a couple other stats guys around here used to talk about how quality of linemates is a bigger factor than quality of competition when it comes to scoring rates. If that's true I'd expect Ehlers' p/60 to be higher with Scheifele than away from him. Not sure if it is as I'm at work atm and can't check, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[DRW204]

Dropped a word, "Not saying it didn't" - insert happen - ", but it was damn short." So no, not refuting that it happened.

Not denying Perfetti's lack of production. But he was still playing well with no puck luck and linemates not finishing. Are you just ignoring Iafallo's lack of production?

Yes, look at the last few pages of this thread. You suggested that people are giving Perfetti some kind of free pass. For any other player they would be demanding he be demoted. In fact people have been calling for trading Perfetti or press boxing him.

Kid was in a protracted dry spell. His line had gone dry. Something needed to be done to get it going. I don't think Perfetti was necessarily the source of the problem there. But something had to be done. The arrival of Money and Toffoli pushes Perfetti down to the 4th line anyway. But Vilardi's injury creates an opening to give him another shot on the 2nd line with Money and Toffoli. For how long we don't know. Vilardi is day-to-day-to-day-to-day.

But Iafallo was pretty good there on Monday. Lets see if he can sustain that.

ffs. i don't think iafallo should be a top-6er, how many times do i have to say this. i have been saying his production has been bad for weeks. and said it earlier a page or 2 ago in this thread. neither of them should be a top-6er. once again, resorting to another players lack of production. just nevermind.

 

[TS Quint]

Garrett and a couple other stats guys around here used to talk about how quality of linemates is a bigger factor than quality of competition when it comes to scoring rates. If that's true I'd expect Ehlers' p/60 to be higher with Scheifele than away from him. Not sure if it is as I'm at work atm and can't check, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Not to stir the “stat guy” fan boys up too much but I find those stat guys dubious at best. Often they can’t explain what is happening just “the numbers are the numbers”. It’s not exactly a profound statement to say you look better with better players. Like duh.


In this case is Ehlers a line driver or not? You can’t call him a line driver then say “well he doesn’t get good enough line mates”.

 

[Jack7222]

(just saw DRW204 posted this into the Ehlers thread, prob good not to derail Perfetti's thread heh)

 

[Gm0ney]

Moving this to the Ehlers thread as well.

Godspeed, Cole Perfetti...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

ffs. i don't think iafallo should be a top-6er, how many times do i have to say this. i have been saying his production has been bad for weeks. and said it earlier a page or 2 ago in this thread. neither of them should be a top-6er. once again, resorting to another players lack of production. just nevermind.

Sorry, thought this discussion was Iafallo vs Perfetti on the 2nd line while waiting for Vilardi's return. (checks back) Oh, it was!

Yes, there is another option, Barron. Or, how about Nino, with Barron moving up to Nino's spot on the Lowry line.

 

[NA Hockey]

Sorry, thought this discussion was Iafallo vs Perfetti on the 2nd line while waiting for Vilardi's return. (checks back) Oh, it was!

Yes, there is another option, Barron. Or, how about Nino, with Barron moving up to Nino's spot on the Lowry line.

Barron works hard and forechecks well but doesn't make plays at all. He has tunnel vision. He is a prototypical 3rd or 4th liner on most teams and a 4th liner on this iteration of the jets because our 3rd line isn’t changing. Cole has been away from top players for 6 or so games now, it would be good for the team to give him a run in the top 6 for 4 or 5 games to see if the demotion worked in getting him back to make plays and putting up points.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Can I have the 6 49 numbers?

Sure. They are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12... all the way to 49.

 

[DRW204]

so when Vilardi comes back, it's probably between him and Barron that sits right? the perfetti-names-iafallo line was solid months ago, as i expect 2/3s of that to be atleast mainstays on the 4th.

 

[MardyBum]

so when Vilardi comes back, it's probably between him and Barron that sits right? the perfetti-names-iafallo line was solid months ago, as i expect 2/3s of that to be atleast mainstays on the 4th.

Yeah hopefully just rotate a player out if the line isn't working. (Obv Barron/Perfetti with Iafallo having the +8 to saving throws via VET).

Have some talent on the line so hopefully they can win their matchups in the playoffs.

If they had balls though they'd be putting Perfetti back in the top 6 for a few games until Vilardi is healthy to see what that looks like heading into the playoffs where the Jets tend to shatter into pieces physically. Alas.

 

[sipowicz]

Yeah hopefully just rotate a player out if the line isn't working. (Obv Barron/Perfetti with Iafallo having the +8 to saving throws via VET).

Have some talent on the line so hopefully they can win their matchups in the playoffs.

If they had balls though they'd be putting Perfetti back in the top 6 for a few games until Vilardi is healthy to see what that looks like heading into the playoffs where the Jets tend to shatter into pieces physically. Alas.

1 goal and 2 assists since Jan 11 doesn't exactly scream top 6!

More like send him to the AHL!

 

[Flair Hay]

1 goal and 2 assists since Jan 11 doesn't exactly scream top 6!

More like send him to the AHL!

I'm honestly not sure why we haven't. The confidence blow already took place. Why not just get him back to doing what got him here in the first place and playing with confidence again?

so when Vilardi comes back, it's probably between him and Barron that sits right? the perfetti-names-iafallo line was solid months ago, as i expect 2/3s of that to be atleast mainstays on the 4th.

I expect they may do some rotating similar to the 3rd pair D. Nothing I've seen in the last couple months from the team indicates Cole will be playing above Barron once playoffs arrive and we are healthy.

 

[surixon]

I'm honestly not sure why we haven't. The confidence blow already took place. Why not just get him back to doing what got him here in the first place and playing with confidence again?



I expect they may do some rotating similar to the 3rd pair D. Nothing I've seen in the last couple months from the team indicates Cole will be playing above Barron once playoffs arrive and we are healthy.

I think it's because playoffs are coming and Bones has already decided he's going to go with his vets. You are also seeing another young player in Snerg out of the lineup more. He trusts veteran experience to get it done for him.

 

[kanadalainen]

I mean slumps happen to even the best of players. Crosby for instance only has 2 points in his last 8 games and is -12.

Yes but what of causality in Koal's cold streak? In all fairness, Crosby is somewhat more ancient than our beloved Koal. Sids skills are definitely waning. On the other I think Perfecto's issues is a matter of confidence, thats all.

Samberg out of the line up? I'm thinking he is nicked up and they are cyclically resting him.

You could be right - Bones seems to love his vets, and that colours his decisions, but usage is a complex issue influenced by multiple factors.

 

[surixon]

Yes but what of causality in Koal's cold streak? In all fairness, Crosby is somewhat more ancient than our beloved Koal. Sids skills are definitely waning. On the other I think Perfecto's issues is a matter of confidence, thats all.

Samberg out of the line up? I'm thinking he is nicked up and they are cyclically resting him.

You could be right - Bones seems to love his vets, and that colours his decisions, but usage is a complex issue influenced by multiple factors.

I think his confidence is definitely back on the uptick if last game is any indication. He's still young and figuring this league out.

Yes I'm sure it's a factor of many things. I think the chief one is a high degree of pressure to win this year before the Scheifele and Helle contracts kick in. This is probably Bones last shot at a cup so that pressure will likely influence his decision making. He's also a pretty risk adverse coach so that will also lead to him deferring to experience.

 

[DRW204]

1 goal and 2 assists since Jan 11 doesn't exactly scream top 6!

More like send him to the AHL!

I don't think anyone can conceivably say he should be a top 6er when Vilardi is back. But a 4th line with Names and either Iafallo or Barron may be decent.